Top 10 white sprinters of all time


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Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Larry » Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:35 pm

1. Valeri Borzov
2. Bobby Morrow
3. Pietro Mannea
4. Armin Harry
5. Harold Abrahams
6. Charley Paddock
7. Percy Williams
8. Allan Wells
9. Lindy Remigino
10. Matt Shirvington
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Falken » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:31 pm

Excluding the furlong I would say;

1. Borzov
2. Bernie Wefers
3. Hal Davis
4. Morrow
5. Arthur Duffey
6. Paddock
7. Archie Hahn
8. Hary
9. Luther Cary
10.Mel Patton

But your picks are as good as mine....
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Larry » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:00 pm

I left out some of the good ones that you put in. I didn't realize that Mel Patton and Harold Davis were white. Do you know if Mel Patton is still alive? If not, when did he die?
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Falken » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:29 am

He was born in 1924 and is still alive.....
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:13 am

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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Larry » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:09 am

Rob, I'm not familiar with those 2 sprinters you mention. Could you please give me some info on what years they competed and what times they ran?
Matt Shirvington's best international performances were 3rd in the Goodwill Games 100m, 4th in the Commonwealth Games 100m and 4th in the World Indoor 60m. Obviously, these performances were not as great as the other white sprinters on my list, however, his 6 fastest 100m times are as follows :
10.03
10.07
10.07
10.09
10.11
10.13
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Falken » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:45 am

Eugen Ray (an East German...) was at his best in 1977 when T&FN ranked him nr 1 in the world. He won the European Cup that year (ahead of Mennea and Borzov) and was second to Steve Williams (but ahead of Silvio leonard..) at the World Cup
Ran 10,11 that year...
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:01 am

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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:18 am

California

Mel Patton USC
Frank Wykoff USC
Larry Questad Stanford
Darel Newman Fresno St
Fred Kuller USC
Tom Jones UCLA
Marty Kruelee SDS
Charley Paddock USC
Wayne Herman SJS
Payton Jordan USC
Hal Davis Cal

USA

Bobby Morrow ACU
Dave Sime Duke
Ben Vaughn GA Tech
Kevin Little Drake?
Gerry Ashworth Dartmouth
Mark Lutz Kansas
Lindy Rimigino Manhatten
Dean Smith Texas
Thane Baker Kansas State
Roland Locke Nebraska
Jeff Phillips Tenn
Dennis Schultz Okla St
Jackson Scholz Missouri
Charles Tidwell Kansas
Bill Woodhouse ACU

World

Valery Borzov USSR
Marian Worinin Poland
Pietro Mennea Italy
Harold Abrahams GB
Percy Williams Canada
Armin Hary Germany
Frank Emmelmann EG
John Treloar Aus
Hector Hogan Aus
Manfred Germer WG
Victor Sukharyev USSR
Wieslaw Maniak Poland
Jocelyn Delecor France
Livio Berruti Italy
Peter Radford GB
Allen Wells GB
Eugene Ray EG
Bob Lay Aus
Kenteris Greece
Paul Nash SA
Matt Shirvington Aus

Now the finals!

lane

1.Allen Wells GB
2.Kevin Little USA
3.Armin Hary Ger
4.Bobby Morrow USA
5.Valery Borzov USSR
6.Dave Sime USA
7.Eugene Ray EG
8.Darel Newman USA
9.Marian Worinin Poland
10.Matt Shirvington Aus

In the mid 50's there was a guy named Rod Richards from the USA he was even ranked number 1 in the world in 1955,was he white?

I didn't go wayyyyy back to the days of Lon Myers,Bernie Wefers and Archie Hahn. Those 9.6's really wouldn't cut it when in with the guys I mentioned.Roland Locke's 20.6 in the 1920's has to be there.
Last edited by Brutal on Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:30 am

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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby mrbowie » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:16 am

What is this fascination with white sprinters, or white anything?
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby D.Advocate » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:25 am

Shirvington's speed relies on a frenetic awful action that relies on youthful vigoursness and exuberance which he no longer has, hence his times are going down. He has been running since approx. 10 years old, in that 15 years has he not even thought of developing that ragged action into at least a slightly smoother running style. Its like something you might see on a school sports day - he thinks the more vigourous he runs the faster he will go. Those who can run relaxed run fastest. He should take note of Borzov's coach's 'tube' philosophy.
His fastest times are mostly where he has been dragged through in 3rd/4th/5th place by much faster men. I think i'd even rate Macrozonaris above Shirvington.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby D.Advocate » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:28 am

mrbowie I dare say you sucked up the fascination in your incarnation as the White Duke.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:32 am

The fascination with white anythings?

Let's say tomorrow we were watching the Olympic swimming competition.There were 9 white swimmers and one black guy from Jamaica. As a matter of fact he was the only swimmer Jamaica had. Yep ya notice stuff like that.

Speaking of Jamaica. That island has had more great sprinters born there than Europe and Asia combined.

Them old Mississippi delta blues is a black thang not unlike Reggae, well so is world class sprinting. Fast white guys are rare!

We could take the four fastest white guys ever and they couldn't beat an all star black team from TCU in a 4x1.

That should tell ya something!
Last edited by Brutal on Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby The King » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:34 am

Eric Liddell has to be in the mix...he was one of histories first (if not THE first) men to be a great 100/200/400 guy...
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby R. Sloane » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:57 am

>California

Mel Patton USC
Frank Wykoff USC
Larry Questad Stanford
Darel
>Newman Fresno St
Fred Kuller USC
Tom Jones UCLA
Marty Kruelee SDS
Charley
>Paddock USC
Wayne Herman SJS
Payton Jordan USC
Hal Davis Cal

USA

Bobby
>Morrow ACU
Dave Sime Duke
Ben Vaughn GA Tech
Kevin Little Drake?
Gerry
>Ashworth Dartmouth
Mark Lutz Kansas
Lindy Rimigino Manhatten
Dean Smith
>Texas
Thane Baker Kansas State
Roland Locke Nebraska
Jeff Phillips
>Tenn
Dennis Schultz Okla St
Jackson Scholz Missouri
Charles Tidwell
>Kansas
Bill Woodhouse ACU

World

Valery Borzov USSR
Marian Worinin
>Poland
Pietro Mennea Italy
Harold Abrahams GB
Percy Williams Canada
Armin
>Hary Germany
Frank Emmelmann EG
John Treloar Aus
Hector Hogan Aus
Manfred
>Germer WG
Victor Sukharyev USSR
Wieslaw Maniak Poland
Jocelyn Delecor
>France
Livio Berruti Italy
Peter Radford GB
Allen Wells GB
Eugene Ray
>EG
Bob Lay Aus
Kenteris Greece
Paul Nash SA
Matt Shirvington Aus

Now the
>finals!

lane

1.Allen Wells GB
2.Kevin Little USA
3.Armin Hary
>Ger
4.Bobby Morrow USA
5.Valery Borzov USSR
6.Dave Sime USA
7.Eugene Ray
>EG
8.Darel Newman USA
9.Marian Worinin Poland
10.Matt Shirvington Aus

In
>the mid 50's there was a guy named Rod Richards from the USA he was even ranked
>number 1 in the world in 1955,was he white?

I didn't go wayyyyy back to
>the days of Lon Myers,Bernie Wefers and Archie Hahn. Those 9.6's really
>wouldn't cut it when in with the guys I mentioned.Roland Locke's 20.6 in the
>1920's has to be there.

Brutal... do you not think Jerry Bright out of Carlmont HS, US Army, 1968 Oly team alternate is worthy....?
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:39 pm

Anytime I do long lists like that I always forget somebody.

Let's add Jerry Bright(thanks Rick) who was a solid 200 man at Arizona State and Texas A&M's Rocky Woods a 9.3 guy.

Then there's.....

Mike Miller Indiana
John Garrison Oklahoma
Clyde Jeffreys Stanford
Charlie Thomas Texas A&M
Jason Leach Texas
Last edited by Brutal on Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby EastBayprepoftheweek67 » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:29 pm

do you not think Jerry
>Bright out of Carlmont HS, US Army, 1968 Oly team alternate is
>worthy....?

Bright ran for Castlemont High School, Oakland, Calif., a much different school than Carlmont HS on the San Francisco Penninsula.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby mr. 4.2 40 » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:35 pm

would tim dwight be considerd ??
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby R. Sloane » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:49 pm

>do you not think Jerry
>Bright out of Carlmont HS, US Army, 1968 Oly team
>alternate is
>worthy....?

Bright ran for Castlemont High School, Oakland,
>Calif., a much different school than Carlmont HS on the San Francisco
>Penninsula.

You're right, EB Prep... Castlemont.!! The Knights..!
As a Berkeley boy running at the same time I should not have missed that typo..!!
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Jacksf » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:16 pm

Am I right in thinking that if Jerry Bright attended Castlemont he must have been one of the only white guys at the school, and yet probably the fastest guy in the school? Oakland had some pretty top sprinters around that time, including Jim Hines and Warren Edmondson.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:22 pm

Tim Dwight was a 10.33 guy at Iowa. He did nothing on the national scene other than run a solid 4x4 leg for Iowa's 4x4 team. If we were talking fast white footballers he would belong but we aren't.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Jacksf » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:26 pm

Tim won the Big 10 100 meters championships a few years ago.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby twittering debutante » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:32 pm

Kevin Little was a 200 specialist. Can't agree with him in the top 10.

Mark Lutz, although also a 200 specialist, also ran 9.2y.

We had a guy in gym class in 1974 named Dave Daniels. He smoked and did every kind of drug imaginable. No one in our gym class could beat him in a 50y dash, including me, despite being a 4:21 miler.

I'd have to put Dave Daniels in the top 10.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:40 pm

When Dwight won the Big10 he ran in the 10.4's

Kevin Little holds the 100 meter record for white Americans with a 10.14. He definately belongs!

Mark Lutz ran a 9.3.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby EastBayprepoftheweek67 » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:24 pm

>Am I right in thinking that if Jerry Bright attended Castlemont he must have
>been one of the only white guys at the school, and yet probably the fastest guy
>in the school? Oakland had some pretty top sprinters around that time,
>including Jim Hines and Warren Edmondson.

Bright and his Castlemont teammates were very impressive, both in speed and in psychological games. I saw them getting off the bus at a relays meet, drill like, Bright leading the way, then all his mates gathering around him, and marching into the venue. Intimidating, and I wasn't even going to compete against sprinters.

Bright was just after Hines and ahead of Edmondson in Oakland sprinting generational hierarchy.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Thor » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:05 am

Kevin Little holds the 100
>meter record for white Americans with a 10.14. He definately belongs!

Geir Moen is a better sprinter from the same area.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Larry » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:12 am

"Geir Moen is a better sprinter from the same area"

You're obviously from Norway...
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Wayne T. Armbrust » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:16 am

USA


Jeff Phillips
>Tenn


Jeff Phillips, although he appears at first glance to be white, is mixed race. I knew him fairly well since he came from the Columbus area and attended Ohio State for a few quarters.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Larry » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:19 pm

Back in '95 when I first saw Mo Greene, I thought he was white! Surely he must have some white in him.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Jacksf » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:07 pm

Surely, you need glasses.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby twittering debutante » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:19 pm

Kevin Little probably doesn't have 3 times under 10.20. One 10.14 and you're annointing him as one of the best of all time? Even mentioning Kevin Little in the same sentence as Borzov . . . that's crazy!
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:51 pm

Kevin Little could run a 10.14 just off his 200 strength. If he got serious about the event we might be looking at the first sub10.00 by a white guy. You have it all backwards. He ran a 10.14 without a start or a lot of 100 meter expertise. There is a message there! Yep .."what if?"

Go ahead give me a list of all the white Americans who have ran faster than 10.14.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby JLightnin' » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:11 am

Jeff Phillips
>Tenn
Phillips was among the best as far as top end speed. If he would have had any kind of start in the 100 he'd have been dangerous and even in the 200 meter dash, he was afflicted with running a bad turn, but the last 50 meters, he could pick off nearly anyone.

Still I believe his father is black and his mother is white, regardless he was a great one.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby mrbowie » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:08 am

Geez, it's really a shame that Al Campanis, Jimmy The Greek and Howard Cossell died before they could participate in this important discussion.
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Rob » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:12 am

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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Brutal » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:38 am

mrbowie

Black's make up 13% of the population in America. Of that 13% I'd say maybe 5% are between the ages of 18-30. When 5% dominates anything we have a story.

Name me one starting white running back in the NFL.Give me one starting white def back in the NFL.Of the 12 Olympic sprinters making up our 100/200/400 teams only one is white.

Those are merely "facts!" Deal with it!
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby mrbowie » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:36 pm

Brutal,

You are talking black, they are talking white.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder.

I am white and I chose not to differentiate between the races when it comes to athletics.

I believe that makes me normal.

What is your problem?
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby Littlemac » Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:22 pm

why do assume any discussion of race makes those participating in the discussion racists? (excluding yourself of course, who chooses not see race)
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Re: Top 10 white sprinters of all time

Postby mrbowie » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:14 am

Is this track and field or physical anthropology?
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