Track accomplishments of Herschel Walker?


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Track accomplishments of Herschel Walker?

Postby BillVol » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:52 am

We're talking about this over on the Vol board. His speed was not ever considered world class, was it? I know he was very fast, but weren't there several Americans faster than him? Did he ever place in the SECs? I guessed over there that even Bo Jackson was faster.

That was quite a time for college football. Hard to believe, but that was around 25 years ago. But you look at guys like Bo and Herschel and know they would be just as good today. And really, the game and athletes are not that much different.

Now, put yourself back 25 years and from there look back 25 years. A whole different story! That would put you at around 1957! An entirely different game!
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:41 am

The Georgia media guide lists Walker's best time at 10.23. The Auburn media guide lists only the top ten in school history in the 100 meters and doesn’t list Bo Jackson. Since the tenth fastest person had a time of 10.24, Jackson’s best time is presumed to be 10.25 or slower. The presumption is supported by the fact that Jackson only ranks eighth in school history at the discontinued indoor distance of 55 meters with a time of 6.18, and all of the people on the 100 list who competed in the 55-meter era ran faster than 6.18.
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Re: Track accomplishments of Herschel Walker?

Postby tandfman » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:29 am

BillVol wrote:We're talking about this over on the Vol board. His speed was not ever considered world class, was it? I know he was very fast, but weren't there several Americans faster than him? Did he ever place in the SECs?

Herschel Walker was 6th in the SEC Championships as a freshman in 1981 and 7th in the NCAA Championships that year.
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Postby Kishan Gill » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:41 am

jazzcyclist wrote:The Georgia media guide lists Walker's best time at 10.23. The Auburn media guide lists only the top ten in school history in the 100 meters and doesn’t list Bo Jackson. Since the tenth fastest person had a time of 10.24, Jackson’s best time is presumed to be 10.25 or slower. The presumption is supported by the fact that Jackson only ranks eighth in school history at the discontinued indoor distance of 55 meters with a time of 6.18, and all of the people on the 100 list who competed in the 55-meter era ran faster than 6.18.


I believe herscel walkers best performance was finishing second in dallas behind lewis in 1983 in which the latter set a world best 6.02 for 60 yards. Walkers time if i remember right was 6.12.
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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:17 am

Bo Jackson ran 10.44/10.39w in 1984.

Herschel Walker ran 10.23/10.10w in 1982.

I have them both at 6'3 and 220lbs. Scary.

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Postby gh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:22 am

He was clearly world class, at least on a time frame of reference; we've become spoiled by what modern tracks and shoes (and the plain old evolution of the sport) have done to sprint times.

His 10.23 made him No. 23 on the yearly world list in '82.

Among the guys he was faster than that year: Mike Sanford, Steve Riddick, Ben Johnson, Desai Williams, Harvey Glance.
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Postby Halfmiler2 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:34 am

Did he not have more success indoors than outdoors?
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Postby tandfman » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:39 am

gh wrote:His 10.23 made him No. 23 on the yearly world list in '82.

Among the guys he was faster than that year: Mike Sanford, Steve Riddick, Ben Johnson, Desai Williams, Harvey Glance.

Yes, but Walker was the only one of those guys who was at the peak of his career then.
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Postby tafnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:40 am

The HW ultimate trivia fact: he did 2500 situps and 1500 pushups every morning from the beginning of HS all the way through the pros! :shock:
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Postby paulthefan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:03 pm

I think the proper measure of HW is to consider how far his 10.23 was off the WR and top 10 of THAT year in which he ran it.

On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 220 size?

In proper context HW was an immense talent, and in my opinion we have not seen someone of his caliber since.

Unlike Bill Vol I dont think it says anything about the quality (or lack thereof ) of football or dashing in 1957.
Last edited by paulthefan on Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:06 pm

paulthefan wrote:On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 200+ size?

No-one bigger is faster.

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Postby tafnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:14 pm

Justin Clouder wrote:
paulthefan wrote:On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 200+ size?

No-one bigger is faster.


Asafa, at 6'3, is approaching 200 pounds (mid-190s now?)
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Postby paulthefan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:15 pm

tafnut wrote:
Justin Clouder wrote:
paulthefan wrote:On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 200+ size?

No-one bigger is faster.


Asafa, at 6'3, is approaching 200 pounds (mid-190s now?)


Dave Sime, Olympic silver, was all of that and was so in 1957... a world of difference from 200 to 220, factor in that AP is a circa2007 dasher and there is no comparison, I would imagine that if HW were around today he would be a 10.2 dasher at 230 or a 10flat dasher (or dare I say sub10) at 210. Frightening...

On top of that was there ever a greater man in heart and character than HW?
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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:32 pm

I have Walker at 6'3" (1.86m) and 220lbs (100kg), which is what I based my statement on. There have been others at 6'3 and others approaching 220, but no-one else who was both. As far a I know!

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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:39 pm

Justin Clouder wrote:
paulthefan wrote:On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 200+ size?

No-one bigger is faster.

Justin


What about X-man? I think he's bigger than Powell and faster than Walker. Here are some times for some other football player/sprinters according to their school media guides:

Johnny “Lam” Jones 10.14 1977
Willie Gault 10.10 1982
Deion Sanders 10.26 1988
Renaldo Nehemiah 10.18w 1978
Raghib "Rocket" Ismail 10.34 1991
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Postby tandfman » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:46 pm

None of those guys looked like Walker or Jackson.
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Postby BillVol » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:49 pm

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=7&F=1372 ... m=12750956

Here is a picture of Walker from that thread. I don't believe the caption is by the poster. Looks like taken from some other website, so as always, take the claims listed with a grain of salt.

BTW, wasn't there another good Georgia sprinter from that era named Lattany? Forget first name.
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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:53 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Justin Clouder wrote:
paulthefan wrote:On top of that how many have come around with his 6'2" 200+ size?

No-one bigger is faster.

Justin


What about X-man? I think he's bigger than Powell and faster than Walker. Here are some times for some other football player/sprinters according to their school media guides:

Johnny “Lam” Jones 10.14 1977
Willie Gault 10.10 1982
Deion Sanders 10.26 1988
Renaldo Nehemiah 10.18w 1978
Raghib "Rocket" Ismail 10.34 1991

All big, none anywhere near 6'3/220.

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Postby dukehjsteve » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:53 pm

If you go back 50 years in the SEC, you are back to LSU All American HB Billy Cannon... he even got his picture in T&FN, in the blocks. I think he could SP pretty well in addition to his sprinting prowess.
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Postby paulthefan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:11 pm

Case closed HW was in a league of his own. ... But to find someone close there was a certain circa 1960s deca legend that was as big and was quite fast, but not as fast as HW.

And of course there was Brian oldfield who I would imagine could have been sub11 if he had decided to drop down in weight to 250.
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Postby malmo » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:21 pm

Justin Clouder wrote:I have Walker at 6'3" (1.86m) and 220lbs (100kg), which is what I based my statement on. There have been others at 6'3 and others approaching 220, but no-one else who was both. As far a I know!

Justin



Without even checking, HW was nowhere near 6'3"
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Postby tandfman » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:23 pm

BillVol wrote:BTW, wasn't there another good Georgia sprinter from that era named Lattany? Forget first name.

Mel.
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Postby tafnut » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:25 pm

malmo wrote:without even checking, HW was nowhere near 6'3"

This says 6'2, 222 - that's close.

http://www.collegefootball.org/famersearch.php?id=80026
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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:32 pm

malmo wrote:
Justin Clouder wrote:I have Walker at 6'3" (1.86m) ...

Without even checking, HW was nowhere near 6'3"

I did the checking myself in my post...186cm is 6'1" and bits. My bad.

Still stands that no-one bigger is faster, I believe. I have Sam Rogers (10.25 in 96) at around 215 but under 6'0. That's almost more scary.

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Postby Justin Clouder » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:37 pm

One guy who taller, faster and arguably bigger is Tim Goebel, 200cm and 95kg / 6'6.75" and 209lbs. Ran 10.21/10.18w/6.58 in 2001 as a junior but never improved.

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Postby malmo » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:38 pm

Justin Clouder wrote:
malmo wrote:
Justin Clouder wrote:I have Walker at 6'3" (1.86m) ...

Without even checking, HW was nowhere near 6'3"

I did the checking myself in my post...186cm is 6'1" and bits. My bad.

Still stands that no-one bigger is faster, I believe. I have Sam Rogers (10.25 in 96) at around 215 but under 6'0. That's almost more scary.

Justin


I thought he looked shorter than 6-1, but that sounds more realistic.
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Postby paulthefan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:43 pm

Malmo comes through big time... great eye man.

I posted him at 6'2", my regrets.
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Postby gh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:02 pm

Curtis Dickey looked like a tank, but he was "only" 6-1/205 when he World Ranked in '78.
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Postby bambam » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:39 pm

Going back another generation, to a now disgraced great former running back, in the late 50s didn't TAFNews label Billy Cannon as "The fastest shot putter ever, or the strongest sprinter ever."? What were his marks back then? I really have no idea.
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Postby malmo » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:09 pm

tafnut wrote:
malmo wrote:without even checking, HW was nowhere near 6'3"

This says 6'2, 222 - that's close.

http://www.collegefootball.org/famersearch.php?id=80026


Yes, and every other source (including those from his employers) that you deliberately overlooked listed Walker at 6-1. Lets' face it, you didn't post to contribute to the thread, you posted for one purpose -- to annoy. In fact, after 24,000 posts you haven't yet put up any content.
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Postby malmo » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:10 pm

bambam wrote:Going back another generation, to a now disgraced great former running back, in the late 50s didn't TAFNews label Billy Cannon as "The fastest shot putter ever, or the strongest sprinter ever."? What were his marks back then? I really have no idea.


I think the Nigerian Nightmare sets the standard in that category.
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Postby Bruce Kritzler » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:49 pm

Think about how little time and emphasis both Bo Joackson and Herschel Walker devoted to track. Think Bo only ran one season and Herschel two, and splitting time with spring football and baseball(Bo).
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:56 pm

Bruce Kritzler wrote:Think about how little time and emphasis both Bo Joackson and Herschel Walker devoted to track. Think Bo only ran one season and Herschel two, and splitting time with spring football and baseball(Bo).

I still think they would have both struggled to run sub-10. Leonard Scott and John Capel ran 10.05 and 10.03 respectively while splitting time with college football. After college they lowered their PR's to 9.91 and 9.95 after several years of track, exclusively.
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Postby gh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:26 pm

The crucial difference: to my eyes Scott & Capel looked like track guys who also played football; Walker & Jackson the other way round.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:34 pm

gh wrote:The crucial difference: to my eyes Scott & Capel looked like track guys who also played football; Walker & Jackson the other way round.

Do you think they would have gone sub-10?
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Postby BillVol » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:12 am

Was Bernie Moore the LSU track coach when Billy Cannon was there? From what little I know about track history, it sounds like LSU was the first track power in the South. Seems like I can recall seeing LSU up there in the NCAAs while looking up old results. I'm not sure other SEC schools were as successful, going back to the'30s. There were individual exceptions, such as Spec Towns.

Coach Moore attended school here in Tennessee at Carson-Newman. I believe he was also the first commissioner of the Southeastern Conference.

Another famous Carson-Newman grad BTW was the great Texas football coach who will always be first team on the all-name team: Dana X. Bible.
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Postby rhymans » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:27 am

Cannon ran 9.5y in 1959 and in the SP did 16.70 (from memory) -

Walker may even have been shorter than 6'1 [I've read 1 reference -an SI article I believe that had him at 6'0 1/2" ]

Travis Williams, who was a sensational kick retumer for Green Bay in '67 ran 9.3y at JC in 1964 aged 18 and was 1.86/95 [6'1"/210] - the poor man died a street dweller, aged 45
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Postby Justin Clouder » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:35 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:The crucial difference: to my eyes Scott & Capel looked like track guys who also played football; Walker & Jackson the other way round.

Do you think they would have gone sub-10?

I would say certainly not. It's a very long way from 10.23 to 9.99, even with full commitment to track. When Walker ran his 10.23 in 1982, we were still waiting for the first man to break 10.00 at sea level (that would come in 1983). Had Walker moved into 10.1x territory he would have been in rarified air for his time, 10.0x would have made him a WC medal contender.

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Postby Kishan Gill » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:37 am

I remember the 1983 brittanica yearbook having walker as 6'2" and 220.

Talking of football players I think we've forgotten about darrell green of san angelo state who in the spring of 1983 ran 10.08 in san angelo,TX and then had a successful time with the redskins. At that time of the year the second fastest in the world behind lewis 9.97 in modesto.

He was 5'8" tall.
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Postby Kevin Richardson » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:34 am

Don't forget that Bo's preferred sport for spring was baseball, so he probably spent very little time on track. It should also be noted that true 100m speed is of less importance than quickness, and the ability to change directions quickly, at least for running backs. A ball runner must keep his center of gravity lower, and his feet a bit wider, in order to do his job.

That having been said, it is still impressive to imagine a man the size of HW running as fast as he did.
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