2013 NFL (American Pro Football)


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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:49 pm

The only thing missing from this Lions-Eagles game is the John Facenda narrative.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:16 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:The only thing missing from this Lions-Eagles game is the John Facenda narrative.


I've never played in the snow living here in central Cali. .... :( Couldn't believe the moves McCoy was making on that turf.

I hear ya, John Facenda, football and snow :D
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:33 pm

Today in Denver, the Broncos Matt Prater kicked a 64-yard field goal without an inch to spare, breaking Tom Dempsey's NFL record by one yard, but shouldn't his record have an "A" attached to it? After all, that kick would have only been good for 57-59 yards if it had been at 5 feet below sea level like Dempsey's kick was.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:47 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Today in Denver, the Broncos Matt Prater kicked a 64-yard field goal without an inch to spare, breaking Tom Dempsey's NFL record by one yard, but shouldn't his record have an "A" attached to it? After all, that kick would have only been good for 57-59 yards if it had been at 5 feet below sea level like Dempsey's kick was.


Things don't need to be that precise/particular in football. If it were we'd have records for artifical turf, records for in a dome, on grass and outdoors and 12 game seasons etc etc etc.

Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:56 pm

Dixon wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Today in Denver, the Broncos Matt Prater kicked a 64-yard field goal without an inch to spare, breaking Tom Dempsey's NFL record by one yard, but shouldn't his record have an "A" attached to it? After all, that kick would have only been good for 57-59 yards if it had been at 5 feet below sea level like Dempsey's kick was.


Things don't need to be that precise/particular in football. If it were we'd have records for artifical turf, records for in a dome, on grass and outdoors and 12 game seasons etc etc etc.

Not so. In track and field, there aren't separate records for cinder, tartan and mondo, and that's why folks complain about Bob Hayes not being recognized as the fastest football player ever.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

Actually, O.J. Simpson's 1973 season, in which he rushed for yards in 14 games is superior to any season Jim Brown had in terms of yards per game.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:17 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Today in Denver, the Broncos Matt Prater kicked a 64-yard field goal without an inch to spare, breaking Tom Dempsey's NFL record by one yard, but shouldn't his record have an "A" attached to it? After all, that kick would have only been good for 57-59 yards if it had been at 5 feet below sea level like Dempsey's kick was.


Things don't need to be that precise/particular in football. If it were we'd have records for artifical turf, records for in a dome, on grass and outdoors and 12 game seasons etc etc etc.

Not so. In track and field, there aren't separate records for cinder, tartan and mondo, and that's why folks complain about Bob Hayes not being recognized as the fastest football player ever.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

Actually, O.J. Simpson's 1973 season, in which he rushed for yards in 14 games is superior to any season Jim Brown had in terms of yards per game.


Who doesn't recognize Bob Hayes as the fastest footballer? And in track we do see that...A..for altitude aided and that..W...for windy. And there are records for nations and age and male/female and conference, league, class.

Jim Brown had a better average per carry in his 1800 plus season than O.J.had in his 2000 plus season. He also scored more TD's in less games.

But....Brown didn't play long enought to be the all time leading rusher even if he'd had 16 game seasons.

If we go with era's, nobody dominated theirs like Jim Brown and with his 6-2 230 size and speed he could have played today.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:35 pm

I can't see anyone beating Seattle at their place or anyone taking down the Broncos in Denver. I do believe on a neutral site the Saints go hang with both of them but that's not going to happen so....

Seattle vs Denver in the biggie.

Young Russell Wilson the best two year QB ever.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:39 pm

Dixon wrote:Who doesn't recognize Bob Hayes as the fastest footballer?

The record books and all the football commentators who I've heard refer to Trindon Holliday as the fastest football player in history. I wish the IAAF would credit Hayes with a 10.06C but it doesn't. Instead the only thing we can do is compare his 10.06 to Holliday's 10.00.
Dixon wrote:And in track we do see that...A..for altitude aided and that..W...for windy. And there are records for nations and age and male/female and conference, league, class.

And I'm saying that football should also have an "A" for altitude for field goals since they are always attempted at a predetermined distance. And similar to track and field, there ARE high school, college and pro records. Of course there aren't any national records since our game isn't played anywhere else.

Dixon wrote:Jim Brown had a better average per carry in his 1800 plus season than O.J.had in his 2000 plus season. He also scored more TD's in less games.

As usual Dixon, you don't have your facts straight. Simpson had 2003 yards in 14 games and Brown had 1863 yards in 14 games. Brown only had 1527 yards in his best 12-game season. Do the math.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:46 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:Who doesn't recognize Bob Hayes as the fastest footballer?

The record books and all the football commentators who I've heard refer to Trindon Holliday as the fastest football player in history. I wish the IAAF would credit Hayes with a 10.06C but it doesn't. Instead the only thing we can do is compare his 10.06 to Holliday's 10.00.
Dixon wrote:And in track we do see that...A..for altitude aided and that..W...for windy. And there are records for nations and age and male/female and conference, league, class.

And I'm saying that football should also have an "A" for altitude for field goals since they are always attempted at a predetermined distance. And similar to track and field, there ARE high school, college and pro records. Of course there aren't any national records since our game isn't played anywhere else.

Dixon wrote:Jim Brown had a better average per carry in his 1800 plus season than O.J.had in his 2000 plus season. He also scored more TD's in less games.

As usual Dixon, you don't have your facts straight. Simpson had 2003 yards in 14 games and Brown had 1863 yards in 14 games. Brown only had 1527 yards in his best 12-game season. Do the math.


Those same announcers call everyone who ran track...world class sprinters...RGIII a great example. Those who saw both Hayes and Holliday know who the fastest footballer is and Hayes is who ESPN has as the fastest footballer ever. Google....fastest NFLer ever..and see what you find. Simple common sense tells us that a 10.0 anything some 50 years ago on dirt is superior to anything 10.00 ran recently.

I don't have my facts straight? I didn't say that Brown had the better average per carry? Which he did. Which tells us what? Speaking of math....Brown averaged 5.2 yards a carry for a career, O.J 4.7. Brown never had a season where he averaged less than 4.3, 0.J.had six season s where he averaged less than 4.3. So what does that tell us?

In his nine season career Brown gained over 12, 000 yards, in his first nine seasons O.J had less than 11,000 and far less TD's.

Trust me jazz, I don't post anything that isn't factual, ok? I have all the facts so I use them.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:33 am

Let me remind you of your own words.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

As I've already pointed out, Brown wouldn't be the single-season yardage leader if he had played 16-game seasons because that would be O.J. Simpson who average 143.1 yards per game in 1973 when he rushed for 2003 yards which is superior to Brown's 133.1 yards per game in 1963 when he rushed for 1863 yards. Nor would Brown be the career yardage leader. If Brown had played 16 games in all of he nine seasons, he would have played a total of 144 games. If you multiply 144 times his career yards-per-game of 104.3, you end up with 15019 yards for his career which would have landed him fourth on the all-time list behind Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. Either you don't know you facts or you're not very good at math. You decide.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:26 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Let me remind you of your own words.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

As I've already pointed out, Brown wouldn't be the single-season yardage leader if he had played 16-game seasons because that would be O.J. Simpson who average 143.1 yards per game in 1973 when he rushed for 2003 yards which is superior to Brown's 133.1 yards per game in 1963 when he rushed for 1863 yards. Nor would Brown be the career yardage leader. If Brown had played 16 games in all of he nine seasons, he would have played a total of 144 games. If you multiply 144 times his career yards-per-game of 104.3, you end up with 15019 yards for his career which would have landed him fourth on the all-time list behind Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. Either you don't know you facts or you're not very good at math. You decide.


Paste

But....Brown didn't play long enought to be the all time leading rusher even if he'd had 16 game seasons.

You must have missed that.

Jim Brown averaged 5.2 yards a carry, speaking of math if he'd carried the ball as many times as any of the top 10 backs he's gaining more yardage, love math :D

Bottom line jazz is that Brown was the greatest ever. Give him the same amount of carries as Emitt he's the leading all time rusher. Average per carry is always the key, always!
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby user4 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:42 am

Dixon wrote:Real $$$ plays

Falcons + 5.5
Saints = 6.0
Ravens + 2
Niners = 6

I've done the homework, all those plays have tons of reasons/stats/trends backing the play, so I am on the right side.


Betting is a gamble. Enjoy it for the entertainment value it gives you.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:54 am

user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:Real $$$ plays

Falcons + 5.5
Saints = 6.0
Ravens + 2
Niners = 6

I've done the homework, all those plays have tons of reasons/stats/trends backing the play, so I am on the right side.


Betting is a gamble. Enjoy it for the entertainment value it gives you.


You start searching during the Monday night game for the best $$$$ plays the following Sunday. It's a process of elimanation, you're looking for the 3-5 best plays. I won 1000 last night on the Saints (can prove it by copy paste if I need to) it was an easy play using a basic fundamental.....good team back at home coming off a loss laying a small number (3).

Next week I've already seen that situation again....Carolina at home vs a weak Jets team. Now I don't know the line yet so...? Another one is the Colts who haven't lost two in a row in two years at home vs a bad bad Houston team.

Right now teams looking for playoff postioning are solid plays because you're getting 100% effort. If you can find those teams playing teams with no playoffs....possible play.

To sit there and watch it play out just as you knew it would while winning some $$$$$$, pretty cool~~~~~~
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:05 am

Dixon wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Let me remind you of your own words.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

As I've already pointed out, Brown wouldn't be the single-season yardage leader if he had played 16-game seasons because that would be O.J. Simpson who average 143.1 yards per game in 1973 when he rushed for 2003 yards which is superior to Brown's 133.1 yards per game in 1963 when he rushed for 1863 yards. Nor would Brown be the career yardage leader. If Brown had played 16 games in all of he nine seasons, he would have played a total of 144 games. If you multiply 144 times his career yards-per-game of 104.3, you end up with 15019 yards for his career which would have landed him fourth on the all-time list behind Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. Either you don't know you facts or you're not very good at math. You decide.


Paste

But....Brown didn't play long enought to be the all time leading rusher even if he'd had 16 game seasons.

But you didn't say he would be the leader if he had played longer, you only said he would be the leader if he had played 16-game seasons, which is not true. I suggest you think before you post Dixon.

Dixon wrote:Bottom line jazz is that Brown was the greatest ever. Give him the same amount of carries as Emitt he's the leading all time rusher. Average per carry is always the key, always!

I agree with you that he's the greatest ever, not that either of our opinions matter. Yards per carry is important but it must be tempered with the length of a player's career. Had Brown played as long as Emmitt did, his average would have no doubt declined in his later years. Among runner backs with at least 1000 carries, Jamaal Charles is the NFL's all-time leader at 5.6 yards per carry, but this number will surely drop as his career winds down. Bo Jackson averaged 5.4 yards per carry but he only had 515 carries during his entire career.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:18 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Let me remind you of your own words.

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.

As I've already pointed out, Brown wouldn't be the single-season yardage leader if he had played 16-game seasons because that would be O.J. Simpson who average 143.1 yards per game in 1973 when he rushed for 2003 yards which is superior to Brown's 133.1 yards per game in 1963 when he rushed for 1863 yards. Nor would Brown be the career yardage leader. If Brown had played 16 games in all of he nine seasons, he would have played a total of 144 games. If you multiply 144 times his career yards-per-game of 104.3, you end up with 15019 yards for his career which would have landed him fourth on the all-time list behind Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. Either you don't know you facts or you're not very good at math. You decide.


Paste

But....Brown didn't play long enought to be the all time leading rusher even if he'd had 16 game seasons.

But you didn't say he would be the leader if he had played longer, you only said he would be the leader if he had played 16-game seasons, which is not true. I suggest you think before you post Dixon.

Dixon wrote:Bottom line jazz is that Brown was the greatest ever. Give him the same amount of carries as Emitt he's the leading all time rusher. Average per carry is always the key, always!

I agree with you that he's the greatest ever, not that either of our opinions matter. Yards per carry is important but it must be tempered with the length of a player's career. Had Brown played as long as Emmitt did, his average would have no doubt declined in his later years. Among runner backs with at least 1000 carries, Jamaal Charles is the NFL's all-time leader at 5.6 yards per carry, but this number will surely drop as his career winds down. Bo Jackson averaged 5.4 yards per carry but he only had 515 carries during his entire career.


I have a bad habit of assuming things are obvious, I assumed it was understood ....all things being equal....Brown is the all time leading rusher. Yes, will be careful with that.

Give Brown nine 16 game seasons and he would only needed to play a few more years to be the all time leading rusher, he was still young when he retired. Give Brown that monster line and a fullback (Brown was the fullback) like Emmitt had and it probably could have done it back then.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:23 am

Dixon wrote:I have a bad habit of assuming things are obvious, I assumed it was understood ....all things being equal....Brown is the all time leading rusher. Yes, will be careful with that.

Yes, please be careful and then we can avoid the confusion. Words do have meaning.

Dixon wrote:Give Brown nine 16 game seasons and he would only needed to play a few more years to be the all time leading rusher, he was still young when he retired. Give Brown that monster line and a fullback (Brown was the fullback) like Emmitt had and it probably could have done it back then.

This also assumes that Brown would have remained healthy. All those extra games would have take a toll on him, and who knows how long he would have lasted in a day and age when doctors couldn't do for Gale Sayers what they did for Adrian Peterson.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:29 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:I have a bad habit of assuming things are obvious, I assumed it was understood ....all things being equal....Brown is the all time leading rusher. Yes, will be careful with that.

Yes, please be careful and then we can avoid the confusion. Words do have meaning.

Dixon wrote:Give Brown nine 16 game seasons and he would only needed to play a few more years to be the all time leading rusher, he was still young when he retired. Give Brown that monster line and a fullback (Brown was the fullback) like Emmitt had and it probably could have done it back then.

This also assumes that Brown would have remained healthy. All those extra games would have take a toll on him, and who knows how long he would have lasted in a day and age when doctors couldn't do for Gale Sayers what they did for Adrian Peterson.


Once again....all things being equal.....which means Brown plays as long as Emmitt. We can't talk....what if he gets hurt....that can be said about every athlete. Keep in mind Brown was bigger/stronger vs his level of oppostion than Emmitt was, so it's safe to say he could have played just as long. D linemen weren't nearly as big/strong in the 60's and neither were backers.

Brown average over 100 yards a game for his career, that is amazing.

While here....

Just how great was Gale Sayers? We won't find his name on any all time list because he didn't play long enought. Yet in his short career he was so totally amazing nobody cares about his place in statsvile. To this day only Barry Sanders rivalled him with the....did I just see that?

Sayers is still the greatest long distance runner ever because he also returned kicks.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:30 am

Dixon wrote:Once again....all things being equal.....which means Brown plays as long as Emmitt. We can't talk....what if he gets hurt....that can be said about every athlete. Keep in mind Brown was bigger/stronger vs his level of oppostion than Emmitt was, so it's safe to say he could have played just as long. D linemen weren't nearly as big/strong in the 60's and neither were backers.

Again, I was just going by your original comment which didn't have all these qualifiers in it:

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.


Think before you post.

Dixon wrote:Just how great was Gale Sayers? We won't find his name on any all time list because he didn't play long enought. Yet in his short career he was so totally amazing nobody cares about his place in statsvile. To this day only Barry Sanders rivalled him with the....did I just see that?

Sayers is still the greatest long distance runner ever because he also returned kicks.

He's the youngest person ever inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame. Sandy Koufax had a similar baseball career. They were both stars that burned very, very bright but only for a short time.
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Re: 2013 NFL (American Pro Football)

Postby Dixon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:36 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:Once again....all things being equal.....which means Brown plays as long as Emmitt. We can't talk....what if he gets hurt....that can be said about every athlete. Keep in mind Brown was bigger/stronger vs his level of oppostion than Emmitt was, so it's safe to say he could have played just as long. D linemen weren't nearly as big/strong in the 60's and neither were backers.

Again, I was just going by your original comment which didn't have all these qualifiers in it:

Dixon wrote:Give Jim Brown 16 game seasons and he's still the yardage leader.


Think before you post.

Dixon wrote:Just how great was Gale Sayers? We won't find his name on any all time list because he didn't play long enought. Yet in his short career he was so totally amazing nobody cares about his place in statsvile. To this day only Barry Sanders rivalled him with the....did I just see that?

Sayers is still the greatest long distance runner ever because he also returned kicks.

He's the youngest person ever inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame. Sandy Koufax had a similar baseball career. They were both stars that burned very, very bright but only for a short time.


When I deal with guys who really understand this stuff like you do, I get lazy with trying to pin point things, thinking ....he knows. I can see you hang on words so I'll be really careful to make things real clear for you...not trying to be a smart ass...ok? I did think it was very obvious I was talking about ...all things being equal. And it's also pretty obvious a 6-2 230 pound back vs 1960's defenses is far more awe inspiring than Emmitts situation. Hell, we'd see him 4/5 yards down the field before seeing a tackler.

i don't think anyone in the Hall of Fame in any sport got there playing as few a games as Gale Sayers did, no haven't looked into it, just a thought.
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