Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in 100m


Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.

Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in 100m

Postby grunner » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:30 am

Mexico city 1968 olympic 100m fi nal Jim Hines from the United St ates was the firts man to break 10 seconds in 100m. He stopped the colck at 9,95 seconds.
http://www.watchathletics.com/video/oth ... r-in-100m/
grunner
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:48 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby jmd » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Thank you for the video Grunner !
A decisive step in 100m history and a great moment indeed,
what a finish !
Time was first announced at 9.89 as we can see on the video...

And what had happened if Bob Hayes was in the final, just four years after Tokyo,
at 25 years and a few months old ?
jmd
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:34 am
Location: France

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby PZhelev » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:38 am

Yes, Jim Hines was the first to break 10.00 barrier and he was a great athlete, sure, but let us not be obsessed by round numbers. For example, there were many athletes greater than Roger Bannister, but he will be always remembered and hailed as the first man to run the mile in under 4 minutes. I believe more objective criterion is who improved the world record by greater margin. Or, to give an example: Usain Bolt never broke some round number margin, but he reduced the world record from 9.72 to 9.58. Is he as great as Jim Hines or not?
PZhelev
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:11 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby JRM » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:58 pm

PZhelev wrote:Yes, Jim Hines was the first to break 10.00 barrier and he was a great athlete, sure, but let us not be obsessed by round numbers.
...

Or, to give an example: Usain Bolt never broke some round number margin, but he reduced the world record from 9.72 to 9.58. Is he as great as Jim Hines or not?


Of course we should be obsessed by round numbers. That's what makes it exciting. Hines will go down in history as a great athlete who broke a major barrier. This isn't a competition with Bolt. Leave it to someone here to make it such, though. But perhaps it's just the older folks who can appreciate performances from a time before Usain Bolt sprinted on the face of the Earth.

Bolt will go down in history as a great sprinter who re-defined what was possible in the events. If he breaks 19s in the 200m (or, say, 9.50 in the 100m), then he'll get the "barrier" prize, too.
JRM
 
Posts: 2625
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby gh » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:19 pm

Hines also wasn't remotely as fast as Hayes. The abomination that was Mexico City raises its ugly head again.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby kuha » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:20 pm

Of course. The change from cinder + sea level to Tartan + 7300' makes any comparison on time alone pretty useless.
kuha
 
Posts: 9034
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:16 pm

gh wrote:Hines also wasn't remotely as fast as Hayes. The abomination that was Mexico City raises its ugly head again.


Bingo ! Nevertheless Hines was an incredibly graceful runner and he earned his gold medal fair and square. While the less than graceful Hayes of 1964 would have beat Hines, one must ask; Even without football was Hayes likely to retain his top sprint form 4 years later ? ... I doubt it.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:39 pm

gh wrote:Hines also wasn't remotely as fast as Hayes. The abomination that was Mexico City raises its ugly head again.

Didn't Hayes run 9.94w in the semis on the Tokyo dirt? And what was the wind speed?
CookyMonzta
 
Posts: 2392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby bambam » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:01 pm

It was 9.91, with a +5.3 m/s wind (technically 5.28)
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:24 pm

bambam wrote:It was 9.91, with a +5.3 m/s wind (technically 5.28)


converts to a 10.12 ! ... think about that, a 10.12 ... in a semi...on dirt .. in 1964!!
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:34 pm

Hines did run the 5.9 for 60yds, 9.1 for yards as did Hayes. He also ran a 10.03 which is faster than Hayes and his 200m was on the same level. So the Hines we saw in 1968 was on the same level as the 1964 Bob Hayes. Hayes didn't have Charlie Greene to contend with.

But...I have no doubt that at 26ish in 68 Hayes is winning the gold and running 9.85.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby bambam » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:37 am

user4 wrote:
bambam wrote:It was 9.91, with a +5.3 m/s wind (technically 5.28)


converts to a 10.12 ! ... think about that, a 10.12 ... in a semi...on dirt .. in 1964!!


Yeah, and he won by 0.24 secs so he certainly wasn't pushed
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:41 am

kuha wrote:Of course. The change from cinder + sea level to Tartan + 7300' makes any comparison on time alone pretty useless.


^^ that ^^
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:10 am

grunner wrote:http://www.watchathletics.com/video/other/687/jim-hines-the-first-man-who-broke-10-second-barrier-in-100m/

And THAT, boys and girls, is how you finish a race, DRIVING through the finish line. I am convinced that most dramatic leans at the tape actually slow you down more than help. DRIVE through the finish - you can bob your head forward at the end if it's close. When I ran in HS and college, I was consciously trying to finish like Jim Hines in his Oly Final.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:15 am

Marlow wrote:
grunner wrote:http://www.watchathletics.com/video/other/687/jim-hines-the-first-man-who-broke-10-second-barrier-in-100m/

And THAT, boys and girls, is how you finish a race, DRIVING through the finish line. I am convinced that most dramatic leans at the tape actually slow you down more than help. DRIVE through the finish - you can bob your head forward at the end if it's close. When I ran in HS and college, I was consciously trying to finish like Jim Hines in his Oly Final.


Hines is a definitely a short dash great, for me the ear mark is simply his margin of victory in that final. I dont think a diminished Hayes beats him in '68.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby houstonian » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:41 am

Thanks for the wonderful video of one of the many great athletes within the greatest USA Olympic team. Mexico 1968, thy name is magic as a lasting reference to track and field superiority and the excellence of US track and field culture.
It is well known that Hines was a Flying Tiger at Texas Southern University. Less known is the fact he attended high school at the legendary McClymonds High, Oakland California. What an athletic pedigree he touts! Hats off to Jim Hines.
houstonian
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:48 am

user4 wrote:I dont think a diminished Hayes beats him in '68.

Why would Hayes have been diminished at age 26? Had he run track that year (on hiatus from football), I see him winning in at least 9.90a.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:48 am

Marlow wrote:
user4 wrote:I dont think a diminished Hayes beats him in '68.

Why would Hayes have been diminished at age 26? Had he run track that year (on hiatus from football), I see him winning in at least 9.90a.


Because in that era and before nearly every 100m man was diminished from 22 to 26 years of age. The 100m back then was just not an event for the 30 year old. I could be wrong but I dont even think the Tommie Smith of '68 was as good as the '66 version and the 200 is more forgiving of age.

Of course Hayes in Tokyo '64 is easily superior to the Hines of Mexico '68.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:21 am

user4 wrote:Because in that era and before nearly every 100m man was diminished from 22 to 26 years of age. The 100m back then was just not an event for the 30 year old.

I think you might be ascribing some faulty causality to the 'careers' of men back then. Most were out of the sport by 25. The ones who stuck with it to their late 20s were no more diminished than they are today.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:36 am

Marlow wrote:
user4 wrote:Because in that era and before nearly every 100m man was diminished from 22 to 26 years of age. The 100m back then was just not an event for the 30 year old.

I think you might be ascribing some faulty causality to the 'careers' of men back then. Most were out of the sport by 25. The ones who stuck with it to their late 20s were no more diminished than they are today.


Well take a close look at the 100m men prior to the 1980s that ran from their teens into their mid 20s...

The Barney Ewell of 1948 (30) he was not near his peak form of the early 40s.
Dave Sime of 1960 (24) not quite the Dave Sime of 1956/57...

Granted, a case can always be made for success for an outlier-talent like Hayes , if we are going to claim a double repeat 100m crown for anyone certainly Hayes should be the one.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby bambam » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:59 pm

user4 wrote:The Barney Ewell of 1948 (30) he was not near his peak form of the early 40s.
Dave Sime of 1960 (24) not quite the Dave Sime of 1956/57...


I think Marlow's got a point here. Sime of 1960 - he was in medical school at the time, with much less time to train, and only came back to track in mid-1959 after playing football and baseball at Duke.

If there had been pro track in the 60s so guys could keep competing like today, I see no reason Hayes couldn't have maintained his dominance thru 1968, except for an injury, of course. Obviously a lot of speculation.
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:37 am

user4 wrote:
Marlow wrote:
user4 wrote:I dont think a diminished Hayes beats him in '68.

Why would Hayes have been diminished at age 26? Had he run track that year (on hiatus from football), I see him winning in at least 9.90a.


Because in that era and before nearly every 100m man was diminished from 22 to 26 years of age. The 100m back then was just not an event for the 30 year old. I could be wrong but I dont even think the Tommie Smith of '68 was as good as the '66 version and the 200 is more forgiving of age.

Of course Hayes in Tokyo '64 is easily superior to the Hines of Mexico '68.


That's really not true, look at Mel Pender a guy who did run into his 30's because he was in the Army and could, he made both the 64 and 68 Oly 100m finals. Tommie Smith was running just as fast in 68 as he was in 66. All we saw was guys having to go get a job in most cases.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby BusterZanga » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:18 pm

PZhelev wrote:Yes, Jim Hines was the first to break 10.00 barrier and he was a great athlete, sure, but ...
gh wrote:Hines also wasn't remotely as fast as Hayes.

Stop mocking Jimmy Oops. The set of sprinters Hines beat in Mexico beats the set of sprinters Bullet Bob beat in Tokyo, lights out. Start mocking Valeriy Borzov.
BusterZanga
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

BusterZanga wrote:Stop mocking Jimmy Oops. The set of sprinters Hines beat in Mexico beats the set of sprinters Bullet Bob beat in Tokyo, lights out. Start mocking Valeriy Borzov.

Mocking? Can't people have opinions? And why was Lennox Miller and Charles Greene better than Figuerola and Harry Jerome? Did Hines beat Miller and Greene by 2 meters? Hayes won by that much in Tokyo in the worst lane on the track. I would rank both Borzov and Carlos ahead of Hines in the 100.
Per Andersen
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby BusterZanga » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:16 am

Per Andersen wrote:I would rank [-] Borzov [-] ahead of Hines in the 100.

Jim Hines beat the lineup, minus Paul Nash. Valeriy Borzov beat the number three Yank, Robert Taylor, Lennox Miller gone bald, limping Hasely Crawford, and four nobodies. No need for an opinion there.
BusterZanga
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby bambam » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:30 am

BusterZanga wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:I would rank [-] Borzov [-] ahead of Hines in the 100.

Jim Hines beat the lineup, minus Paul Nash. Valeriy Borzov beat the number three Yank, Robert Taylor, Lennox Miller gone bald, limping Hasely Crawford, and four nobodies. No need for an opinion there.


Yeah, but I don't think its a given that Hart or Robinson was going to beat Borzov. Neither of them was as good as Hines, in retrospect, or certainly not Hayes. Borzov wasn't bad and his time in 1972 for low-altitude, no wind was one of the best of his era. Would have been a good race, but Borzov may well still have won gold with the 2 Americans in there.
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:02 am

bambam wrote:
BusterZanga wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:I would rank [-] Borzov [-] ahead of Hines in the 100.

Jim Hines beat the lineup, minus Paul Nash. Valeriy Borzov beat the number three Yank, Robert Taylor, Lennox Miller gone bald, limping Hasely Crawford, and four nobodies. No need for an opinion there.


Yeah, but I don't think its a given that Hart or Robinson was going to beat Borzov. Neither of them was as good as Hines, in retrospect, or certainly not Hayes. Borzov wasn't bad and his time in 1972 for low-altitude, no wind was one of the best of his era. Would have been a good race, but Borzov may well still have won gold with the 2 Americans in there.


I think bambam has it about right, neither Hart nor Robinson were even 1/2 a yard better than Taylor on their best day.

A John Carlos at his very best beats Borzov, but he was well past his prime by '72. I would rate Hines and Borzov as roughly equal at 100m. If one has to rank them at 100m alone, probably safe to give it to Hines, if rating them as 100/200m men then Borzov is superior.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:38 pm

There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him?

Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.

Borzov ran a 10.14 winning his gold, Hayes 10.05 on a shabby dirt track.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby rhymans » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:46 am

Hines was good over 2 seasons (67-68), but even in those 2 seasons his record against Charlie Greene was 5-6 over 100y/100m [it was 10-5 for Greene if you add the 1966 season]. The difference between Hines and Hayes is that Hayes had a positive win-loss record against everyone he faced - indeed between 1961 and 1964 he lost just twice over 100y - once to Roger Sayers when he had flu [1962 NAIA] and once to Harry Jerome when the judges got it wrong (photos show Hayes as the winner in the 1962 California Relays). Hines was not remotely as consistent as Hayes, and only had superiority against Greene between July and October 1968.
rhymans
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:58 am

Dixon wrote:There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him?.


Photos showing someone is even in a 4X1 somewhere sometime are kind of irrelevant. Someone like Dixon should know that. Taylor was a great dashman, he faced Borzov on the big stage when the chips were down and he has a well earned silver but it wasnt really close like say Rome 1960.

Dixon wrote: Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.


Great great point. If Larry Black had a middle lane this race would have been quite different and we very well could have seen the first two legit sea level sub 20s. That would have been more spectacular than the Mexico City 200m. Larry Black was the real deal. I would love to see a real historical review of the '72 lane draw process and the names and affiliations of the officials ... We were robbed.


Dixon wrote: Borzov ran a 10.14 winning his gold, Hayes 10.05 on a shabby dirt track.


Indeed and that is why Hayes is King. Hines and Borzov are really no match for a peak Hayes. I wonder if Hines at his best could have beaten Harry Jerome in 1964, my guess is that he beats Jerome by more than 1/2 a yard. Of course Jerome was not at his career best in 1964. Comparing peak Hines to the '72 final, I think Hines also beats Taylor and is in a fight with Borzov to the wire. Im not sure Hines takes it.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:00 pm

Dixon wrote:There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him?

Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.


Get real, man!. There were no such picture because Taylor did not run anchor, Eddie Hart did!!! and he had a 0.3 lead over Borzov at the exchange. Yes he held Borzov off and Borzov did not kill himself,was happy with the silver. Borzov lucky??? It never ends does it? At some point you have to come to grips with the fact that Borzov was the superior sprinter in 1971 and 1972. Undefeated by Americans in both years. He even took them in the Montreal 100 when he was past his prime.
Per Andersen
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby rhymans » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:25 pm

To be fair "Dixon" wasn't entirely wrong, as he wasn't talking about the 72OG race but the US-SU meet in 1970. T&F News described the two men as starting level, but "Taylor handling Borzov with ease" - The US won 39.1 to 39.2. In general terms Per is absolutely right - Borzov was the best in 71-72, beating the US men (and Lennox Miller) in Berkeley in 71 before winning in Munich. His margin over Taylor was 0.10, while Hart's margin over Taylor in the OT was 0.05, an indication of B being better than H in 72.
rhymans
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby user4 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:33 am

Per Andersen wrote:
Dixon wrote:There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him? Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.

Get real, man!. There were no such picture because Taylor did not run anchor, Eddie Hart did!!! and he had a 0.3 lead over Borzov at the exchange. Yes he held Borzov off and Borzov did not kill himself,was happy with the silver. Borzov lucky??? It never ends does it? At some point you have to come to grips with the fact that Borzov was the superior sprinter in 1971 and 1972. Undefeated by Americans in both years. He even took them in the Montreal 100 when he was past his prime.


Per nails it ! One of the things that astounds me about Borzov was his '76 Bronze. Physically he looked like a shell of his '72 version and yet with all three USA guys in the final he picks up a medal. There was no one beating him in Munich, just wasnt going to happen.

On to another guy, watch that Montreal 100m final and see Don Quarrie sustain a top end speed in the final 40m that made both Borzov and Crawford look sub par. Don Quarrie was the real deal, he picks up silver in the 100 and then gold in the 200m from a tight lane 2.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:24 pm

rhymans wrote:To be fair "Dixon" wasn't entirely wrong, as he wasn't talking about the 72OG race but the US-SU meet in 1970. T&F News described the two men as starting level, but "Taylor handling Borzov with ease" - The US won 39.1 to 39.2. In general terms Per is absolutely right - Borzov was the best in 71-72, beating the US men (and Lennox Miller) in Berkeley in 71 before winning in Munich. His margin over Taylor was 0.10, while Hart's margin over Taylor in the OT was 0.05, an indication of B being better than H in 72.

Absolutely, I failed to notice that Dixon was not referring to the Olympic 4 x 100 of 1972 but to "a 4 x 100", 2 years earlier.
Per Andersen
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby James Fields » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:36 am

grunner started this thread with,
Mexico city 1968 olympic 100m fi nal Jim Hines from the United States was the firts man to break 10 seconds in 100m. He stopped the colck at 9,95 seconds.


From a List of World Records recognized by IAAF there appears, prior to 1968 Olympics, the following on 20 June 1968 at Sacramento:
. . 9.9 Jim Hines, USA
. . 9.9 Charlie Greene, USA
. . 9.9 Ronnie Ray Smith, USA
James Fields
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Knoxville and Seattle

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:37 pm

user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him?.


Photos showing someone is even in a 4X1 somewhere sometime are kind of irrelevant. Someone like Dixon should know that. Taylor was a great dashman, he faced Borzov on the big stage when the chips were down and he has a well earned silver but it wasnt really close like say Rome 1960.

Dixon wrote: Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.


Great great point. If Larry Black had a middle lane this race would have been quite different and we very well could have seen the first two legit sea level sub 20s. That would have been more spectacular than the Mexico City 200m. Larry Black was the real deal. I would love to see a real historical review of the '72 lane draw process and the names and affiliations of the officials ... We were robbed.


Dixon wrote: Borzov ran a 10.14 winning his gold, Hayes 10.05 on a shabby dirt track.


Indeed and that is why Hayes is King. Hines and Borzov are really no match for a peak Hayes. I wonder if Hines at his best could have beaten Harry Jerome in 1964, my guess is that he beats Jerome by more than 1/2 a yard. Of course Jerome was not at his career best in 1964. Comparing peak Hines to the '72 final, I think Hines also beats Taylor and is in a fight with Borzov to the wire. Im not sure Hines takes it.


You don't have to convince me that Hayes was the greatest.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:40 pm

Per Andersen wrote:
Dixon wrote:There is a picture in Track & Field News showing Robert Taylor and Borov starting off even on a 4x1 anchor (I saw the race on TV) would ya believe Taylor took him?

Borzov did get a little lucky in 72. If you watch the 200m, why is Larry Black in lane one? While I doubt Rey Robinson is beating Borzov I do think Hart had a legit shot at it.


Get real, man!. There were no such picture because Taylor did not run anchor, Eddie Hart did!!! and he had a 0.3 lead over Borzov at the exchange. Yes he held Borzov off and Borzov did not kill himself,was happy with the silver. Borzov lucky??? It never ends does it? At some point you have to come to grips with the fact that Borzov was the superior sprinter in 1971 and 1972. Undefeated by Americans in both years. He even took them in the Montreal 100 when he was past his prime.


Who said anything about the 1972 Olympics? You think I just make stuff up...that we all can check on...? Hell yes there was a picture of Taylor Borzov and Hart handing off and we see him also yelling at Taylor to go, and yes Taylor beat Borzov there.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:44 pm

rhymans wrote:To be fair "Dixon" wasn't entirely wrong, as he wasn't talking about the 72OG race but the US-SU meet in 1970. T&F News described the two men as starting level, but "Taylor handling Borzov with ease" - The US won 39.1 to 39.2. In general terms Per is absolutely right - Borzov was the best in 71-72, beating the US men (and Lennox Miller) in Berkeley in 71 before winning in Munich. His margin over Taylor was 0.10, while Hart's margin over Taylor in the OT was 0.05, an indication of B being better than H in 72.


Bingo~~~~~~~~

In Berkeley 71 Borzov beat Meriwether and Jim Green (also Quarrie).

We can never go with...somebody beating somebody so he should be able to beat..that doesn't work.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby bambam » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:12 pm

Dixon wrote:Who said anything about the 1972 Olympics? You think I just make stuff up...that we all can check on...? Hell yes there was a picture of Taylor Borzov and Hart handing off and we see him also yelling at Taylor to go, and yes Taylor beat Borzov there.


Easy, Dixo - Per apologized later in the thread noting that he was mixed up and thought you were referring to 1972
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Jim Hines, The First Man Who broke 10 second barrier in

Postby Dixon » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Per Andersen wrote:
rhymans wrote:To be fair "Dixon" wasn't entirely wrong, as he wasn't talking about the 72OG race but the US-SU meet in 1970. T&F News described the two men as starting level, but "Taylor handling Borzov with ease" - The US won 39.1 to 39.2. In general terms Per is absolutely right - Borzov was the best in 71-72, beating the US men (and Lennox Miller) in Berkeley in 71 before winning in Munich. His margin over Taylor was 0.10, while Hart's margin over Taylor in the OT was 0.05, an indication of B being better than H in 72.

Absolutely, I failed to notice that Dixon was not referring to the Olympic 4 x 100 of 1972 but to "a 4 x 100", 2 years earlier.


Trust me I would never just make stuff up.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests