Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!


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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby gh » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:16 pm

w/ a 3-1 overall record against her, McCall probably rates ahead of Bingson at this point.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:47 am

Bingson bounces back nicely and goes 71.75m (235' 4") for 3rd behind Włodarczyk and Lysenko and ahead of 5th place McCall's 70.94m (232' 9") in Warszama, Poland.

Memoriał Kamili Skolimowskiej
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:26 am

Wow. Didn't know this little string on Jeneva existed until today. Well to answer some of this speculation.
1. Jeneva will keep throwing the shot. Been spinning for less than 2 years still has a way to go. The ability is thier to throw 20m + . Has thrown 3.5k 67 feet, 3k 74 feet in practice. 4k 64 3 days before indoor nationals and pulled a gut muscle.
2. Hammer and spin shot is a natural double. Hammer makes rotational shot and discus better. Can pick up the disc easily anytime she wants to. Can throw 58m on any given day without throwing it from the cross training of the 2 other events.
3. The weight does not hurt the hammer if you train it a certain way. Jeneva, Gwen, has already shown this.
4. Non reverse spinning. We work on both, but the non reverse keeps going farther. America is in love with the reverse and europe is not. We also use the glide as a training tool. In practice the spin beats the glide by 11% with every ball. Pulling Gut muscle again at outdoor nationals shut down her shot. Made it 3 throws at usa in the hammer then stopped.
5. Dan Taylor. Average throwing way higher with non reverse work. 2007 20.85 AVERAGE in europe. 20.33 for all meets from 2006-2008. After that 19.25 and 19.53 so , so much for reversing. Had warm-up at 22m in meets several times from 2006-2008.
6. Heavy throwing yes. Number one reason we are behind in a couple of throwing events.
7. Light throwing yes. In the proper ratios.

John Smith
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:30 am

also the weight is a speed implement not a slow implement. It has to be trained along with something longer.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby gh » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:26 am

coach, thanks for the wonderfully informed commentary.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:24 pm

gh wrote:coach, thanks for the wonderfully informed commentary.

Amen
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:33 pm

jjsmith wrote:3. The weight does not hurt the hammer if you train it a certain way. Jeneva, Gwen, has already shown this.

Do you know if the Europeans throw the weight?

jjsmith wrote:4. Non reverse spinning.

Does McCall throw fixed-feet with the discus as well?
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:47 am

Europeans throw a lot of different things. Russians mainly regular length hammers. Hungarians a lot of multiple length stuff. Yes she throws fix feet discus also. Fix feet throwing trains the legs to do proper mechanics. If you do it well enough you can't beat it with a reversed finish.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby Marlow » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:48 am

jjsmith wrote:If you do it well enough you can't beat it with a reversed finish.

My brain can't wrap itself around that. It seems so intuitive that a huge finishing snap would 'require' another spin at the end. I guess it has to do with a torqueing action in biomechanics.
In the Javelin, when I see Pitkamaki's finish, I think, YEAH, that's how it should be done! :D
(Like Al Cantello's full-dive finish)
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:50 am

OK. Fix feet throwing started out oversea's years ago as an training drill that turned into a technique. Power is imparted to the implement only when the legs can work against the earth. If this was not true hammer throwers would be hopping turn to turn and and doing reverses on the finish. There are many fix feet discus throwers in the baltic countries and they do it for a reason and beat us pretty bad. Once you leave the ground thier is nothing more you can do to the implement. Many rotational shot putters train a lot of non-reverse throws even though they use a reverse in competition. Its just a way to finish a throw and stay in. Once the implement leaves your hand its over.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby Marlow » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:49 am

jjsmith wrote:Once you leave the ground thier is nothing more you can do to the implement. . . . Once the implement leaves your hand its over.

I get that, but hasn't everything 'to do', been done by the time it leaves your hand, and you've left the ground? I used to watch Wilkins throw, and there was so much energy in his release, he couldn't possibly stop himself, even if he wanted. It's the same in the Glide Shot Put. How does one NOT reverse after a huge release?
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby Per Andersen » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:31 pm

Marlow wrote:I get that, but hasn't everything 'to do', been done by the time it leaves your hand, and you've left the ground? I used to watch Wilkins throw, and there was so much energy in his release, he couldn't possibly stop himself, even if he wanted. It's the same in the Glide Shot Put. How does one NOT reverse after a huge release?

Excactly. Explosive force in the legs causes many of them to loose contact before the release. Not Riedel but Wilkins, Powell, Wolfgang Schmidt, Gerd Kanter and Alekna (from the Baltics) all did.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:35 pm

Per Andersen wrote:
Marlow wrote:I get that, but hasn't everything 'to do', been done by the time it leaves your hand, and you've left the ground?
Excactly. Explosive force in the legs causes many of them to loose contact before the release. Not Riedel...

Riedel threw fixed-feet, the rest actively reversed.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:20 pm

bushop wrote:Riedel threw fixed-feet, the rest actively reversed.

That's why I mentioned him as the exception to the others.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:45 am

Per Andersen wrote:
bushop wrote:Riedel threw fixed-feet, the rest actively reversed.
That's why I mentioned him as the exception to the others.

Missed that, sorry.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:55 am

Oddity.
McCall is throwing shot, but not hammer, in Berlin.

ISTAF Berlin entries

shot put:
CRAFT , Shanice  GER 
MCCALL, Jeneva  USA  
TERLECKI, Josephine  GER
OMAROVA, Anna  RUS 
KLEINERT, Nadine  GER 
KOPETS, Alena  BLR  
SCHWANITZ, Christina GER  
ADAMS, Valerie  NZL  

hammer:
KLAAS, Kathrin  GER 
HITCHON, Sophie  GBR 
ORBÁN, Éva  HUN 
MORENO, Yipsi  CUB 
BINGSON, Amanda  USA  
HEIDLER, Betty  GER  
WLODARCZYK, Anita  POL 
LYSENKO, Tatyana  RUS 
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:41 am

Politics. Happy to be in shot even though she has only practice twice since world university games.

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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby gh » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:43 am

aka: only 1 American allowed in to a field of 8, so they went for the national champ/NR holder.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:09 am

Gh,

Thank you. First real answer i have gotten in the last 7 days.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby gh » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:43 am

to clarify, that's not any kind of "insider knowledge"; just my reading of how this kind of thing typically plays out.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:48 am

Gh,
Ok . I notice thier are more than one american in the sprints.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby gh » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:01 pm

one difference about the hammer in this meet is that it's part of the IAAF Hammer Challenge.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:10 pm

Gh.

Yes. Jeneva needs one more meet to finish in the top 5 or 6. She is ready right now to throw far. Also one more B level meet over 73.70 would put her 5th or 6th on world rankings. We were removed from bejinj hammer at last moment, and lost that meet. Also prefontaine really hurt they should take more americans like every other hosting country does. She has rieti to get it done.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby bushop » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:57 pm

Does being excluded from a meet factor into the T&F News rankings?
As in, cut McCall some slack since she was not allowed to compete?
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:46 am

Jeneva has 1 more meet to get it done , that's all we need. She has thrown 73.75, 70.47, 72.65, 74.77, 70.94 in europe. They wont be able to keep her out forever. She will knock down those brick walls.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:05 am

bushop wrote:Does being excluded from a meet factor into the T&F News rankings?
As in, cut McCall some slack since she was not allowed to compete?

The obvious answer seems to be: zero effect + or -.
She could have done very well or bombed.
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Re: Jeneva McCall takes "shot" at greatness!

Postby jjsmith » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:01 am

Jeneva got her shot in Rieti and threw 71.34 for 3rd to finish 5th in the World Hammer Challege.
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