What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?


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What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:17 am

For Tyson was it his 4th place finish in the Olys 0.01 seconds behind Gatlin or was Bolt too much throughout these last years?

For VCB was it watching her 200(her main event) deteriorate and feeling pressured to reclaim her world title? Ironically she wont be claiming anything.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am

You are delusional if you think dopers just started doping after they are already elite.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:24 am

dustoff wrote:You are delusional if you think dopers just started doping after they are already elite.

No, he just has a thread creation complex.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:43 am

batonless relay wrote:
dustoff wrote:You are delusional if you think dopers just started doping after they are already elite.

No, he just has a thread creation complex.



Batonless i have the perfect solution for you. If a thread is not to your liking and standards press the back button on your computer and go about your not so merry way. You took five worthless seconds out of your life to input nothing when you could have just kept your beak closed.Go run a relay without the baton. Silly. :lol:
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:55 am

dustoff wrote:You are delusional if you think dopers just started doping after they are already elite.



Its funny on this board posters are subconciously trained in giving the benefit of the doubt to suspicious athletes. It is only when they are busted that we allow a free for all rain of blows on their head. Its funny a week ago it would be blasphemous to have accused Gay of doping now all of a sudden we can be sure VCB and Gay have been dirty this whole time. Well why are they just being caught now? Is this the year of the sacrifical lamb? Offer up all your dirty athletes to the track gods in 2013 lest ye recieve though blessings upon you. I for one am trying not to be jaded so that i can enjoy the sport somewhat. I would like to think VCB 21.74 was natural talent just as I believe Felix 21.69 was natural talent. I would like to believe Gay 9.69 and 9.7's were natural talent too. The one thing all these athletes have in common is being slightly over the hill which may be the biggest factor. It is hard to see how all these big names went through all these Olympics and World Championships in their primes and are just getting busted in their twilight ages where if anything they would have built a legacy to last forever and have a big chance of ruining it now.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:18 am

run4urlyfe wrote:Its funny on this board posters are subconciously trained in giving the benefit of the doubt to suspicious athletes. It is only when they are busted that we allow a free for all rain of blows on their head.


Subconsciously trained? Innocent until found guilty is a "funny" concept? :roll:

Busted = fact.
Suspicious = idle speculation.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby gh » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:22 am

run4urlyfe wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
dustoff wrote:You are delusional if you think dopers just started doping after they are already elite.

No, he just has a thread creation complex.



Batonless i have the perfect solution for you. If a thread is not to your liking and standards press the back button on your computer and go about your not so merry way. You took five worthless seconds out of your life to input nothing when you could have just kept your beak closed.Go run a relay without the baton. Silly. :lol:


people who flood the board—on any topic—eventually come to an unhappy ending.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:35 am

Pego wrote:
run4urlyfe wrote:Its funny on this board posters are subconciously trained in giving the benefit of the doubt to suspicious athletes. It is only when they are busted that we allow a free for all rain of blows on their head.


Subconsciously trained? Innocent until found guilty is a "funny" concept? :roll:

Busted = fact.
Suspicious = idle speculation.



Well then the fact is Tyson Gay tested positive in 2013 not in 2008, 2009 or any other year. The fellow posters to this thread thought it naive of me to think that he just started. As far as I am concerned he has been proven innocent in every year he has not been caught. Please interject is this type of reasoning is not logical.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:56 am

run4urlyfe wrote:
Pego wrote:
run4urlyfe wrote:Its funny on this board posters are subconciously trained in giving the benefit of the doubt to suspicious athletes. It is only when they are busted that we allow a free for all rain of blows on their head.


Subconsciously trained? Innocent until found guilty is a "funny" concept? :roll:

Busted = fact.
Suspicious = idle speculation.



Well then the fact is Tyson Gay tested positive in 2013 not in 2008, 2009 or any other year. The fellow posters to this thread thought it naive of me to think that he just started. As far as I am concerned he has been proven innocent in every year he has not been caught. Please interject is this type of reasoning is not logical.


When somebody's guess does retroactively prove correct still does not make it a sound judgment. So no, I find your reasoning entirely groundless.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:02 am

Pego wrote:
run4urlyfe wrote:
Pego wrote:
run4urlyfe wrote:Its funny on this board posters are subconciously trained in giving the benefit of the doubt to suspicious athletes. It is only when they are busted that we allow a free for all rain of blows on their head.


Subconsciously trained? Innocent until found guilty is a "funny" concept? :roll:

Busted = fact.
Suspicious = idle speculation.



Well then the fact is Tyson Gay tested positive in 2013 not in 2008, 2009 or any other year. The fellow posters to this thread thought it naive of me to think that he just started. As far as I am concerned he has been proven innocent in every year he has not been caught. Please interject is this type of reasoning is not logical.


When somebody's guess does retroactively prove correct still does not make it a sound judgment. So no, I find your reasoning entirely groundless.


Im a bit confused. Exactly what is groundless? The fact that he should be seen as innocent until proven guilty for the years he didn't test positive?
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:10 am

Run4urlyfe, I am afraid you lost me. I am saying that one is innocent until proven guilty and speculations about their guilt without proof are baseless. If you agree, fine, if not, oh well.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:00 am

Pego wrote:Run4urlyfe, I am afraid you lost me. I am saying that one is innocent until proven guilty and speculations about their guilt without proof are baseless. If you agree, fine, if not, oh well.



I agree(for the most part). The debate started when dustoff thought I was delusional for thinking Tyson had just starting using banned substances recently and Batonless Relay indirectly agreed with the comment he posted. My logic ,if even only playing devils advocate, is that if we give someone with a clean doping history the benefit of the doubt because they didnt fail a test then by that same reasoning you have to give a convicted doper the benefit of the doubt during the years when they didn't fail the test. Does that line up with your views?
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:05 am

run4urlyfe wrote:
Pego wrote:Run4urlyfe, I am afraid you lost me. I am saying that one is innocent until proven guilty and speculations about their guilt without proof are baseless. If you agree, fine, if not, oh well.



I agree(for the most part). The debate started when dustoff thought I was delusional for thinking Tyson had just starting using banned substances recently and Batonless Relay indirectly agreed with the comment he posted. My logic ,if even only playing devils advocate, is that if we give someone with a clean doping history the benefit of the doubt because they didnt fail a test then by that same reasoning you have to give a convicted doper the benefit of the doubt during the years when they didn't fail the test. Does that line up with your views?


This gets a bit murky. I suppose, one needs to approach these one by one 8-) .
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:53 am

It is def tricky. I for one am not inclined to believe VCB GAY et al just all of a sudden decided to all get sloppy and let their guard down now. If i was in their shoes I would rather miss out on a world title than tarnish my reputation forever. I think many have gotten jaded and for some it may have been because of specific instances( I gave some examples). How do you think VCB felt going from two time gold medalist in the 200 to not even medaling? Or Tyson being a hundredth off from making the podium. If we believe they were doping all along then it is because we believe some performances are just too good to be done naturally but at the same time you have cartoonish sprinters pushing the world record when they should be nearing retirement but you cant mention that though :roll:
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:28 pm

You are an absolute idiot. The board rules dictate not calling out people for doping without evidence or actual sanctions against the athletes. That hardly indicates that people just started doping when they are caught.

If you believe doping actually helps to a degree to which it should be banned, ask yourself how much sense it makes that an athlete already capable of 9.6 or 10.7 would begin to dope at this point and have no improvement. That is stupid, like your posts.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:58 pm

dustoff wrote:You are an absolute idiot. The board rules dictate not calling out people for doping without evidence or actual sanctions against the athletes. That hardly indicates that people just started doping when they are caught.

If you believe doping actually helps to a degree to which it should be banned, ask yourself how much sense it makes that an athlete already capable of 9.6 or 10.7 would begin to dope at this point and have no improvement. That is stupid, like your posts.



First off the board rules dictate you respect fellow posters so i don't know GH stance on calling people idiots because that is as inflammatory a remark as it gets. Seems this board is rife with digital gangsters. Anyway now to assess reading comprehension..... I didn't ever say that this boards rules indicate anything in the real world what I did say is that on this board you can only speak about what has been publicly exposed( I won't use the word proven) so using that same logic what does Tyson positive test in May/June 2013 tell you about his supplement usage in 2009 or 2008? Please feel free to answer. An athlete of Tyson or VCB age may not dope to seek absolute improvement they may dope to restore the caliber of performance they had in their prime/peak or at least maintain it. The only rebuttal i see you possibly having is what you may feel like is common sense but guess what common sense is what tells the average person athlete xyz is doping and guess what it doesn't fly on this particular board.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:04 pm

Dustoff wrote " You are an absolute idiot."



16. Above all, try to remain courteous, adhering to the old adage, "it's not what you say, it's how you say it." Insulting your fellow posters is a good way to get banned; insulting the mods is a certain way. If there's the slightest chance your dry wit might be misinterpreted, consider throwing in a smilie.

THIS is straight from the g mister guideline. Obviously you are not ignorant of the rules of this board but you break them willingly and freely.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Tuariki » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:08 pm

As I understand it we are still waiting to find out just what the actual offense was. Steroids is one thing; stimulants is something else again. Maybe Gay was a mate of Vijay Singh and was using antler spray. I think before accusations are made against Gay (or anyone else for that matter) we should wait until we know what he is specifically guilty of.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:11 pm

Tuariki wrote:As I understand it we are still waiting to find out just what the actual offense was. Steroids is one thing; stimulants is something else again. Maybe Gay was a mate of Vijay Singh and was using antler spray. I think before accusations are made against Gay (or anyone else for that matter) we should wait until we know what he is specifically guilty of.


Unofficial sources are claiming it is a high level stimulant. For me that is still way different than an anabolic type substance. I can see people experimenting with new stimulants and certain stimulants in different dosages but steroids of any kind are a complete no no.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby Trackrunner » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:18 pm

I will say this I am not entirely surprised by the Tyson situation. I recall an interview a while back where Tyson said that he lived, breathed and ate track and had no plan B - this in a sport where an injured sprinter cannot effectively compete or may be entirely sidelined. I recall him saying how he admired Lauryn Williams for being sensible about having a post track and field career plan but that was not for him - track was all he had. I admired his focus and determination but felt that it was an unhealthy way to live. Of course no one knows the particulars of his case, but I would think with that kind of mindset one would be willing to walk pretty close to the line of what is acceptable - especially if one felt the clock ticking and time running out so to speak. The problem with that of course is that one may inadvertently end up crossing it.
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Re: What do you think pushed certain dopers over the edge?

Postby run4urlyfe » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:08 am

Trackrunner wrote:I will say this I am not entirely surprised by the Tyson situation. I recall an interview a while back where Tyson said that he lived, breathed and ate track and had no plan B - this in a sport where an injured sprinter cannot effectively compete or may be entirely sidelined. I recall him saying how he admired Lauryn Williams for being sensible about having a post track and field career plan but that was not for him - track was all he had. I admired his focus and determination but felt that it was an unhealthy way to live. Of course no one knows the particulars of his case, but I would think with that kind of mindset one would be willing to walk pretty close to the line of what is acceptable - especially if one felt the clock ticking and time running out so to speak. The problem with that of course is that one may inadvertently end up crossing it.



Well I take it he will go into coaching eventually because in another five years or so the checks will be very scanty.
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