European Junior Championship in Italy


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European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:55 am

I just heard Jessica Judd is out of 800!
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby nevetsllim » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:25 am

@jessjuddxx
Very happy to have been selected for Moscow! Unfortunately after picking up a niggle last week we've decided to miss the Euro Juniors...

I really think she should have given the UK Champs a miss because she said she went into that race with a slight niggle and there wasn't much reason for her to run there because she already has the A standard and I'm sure the selectors would have chosen her regardless.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Flumpy » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 am

This is giant f*ck up.

Euro Juniors should have been the focus for the year not the WC's.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:54 am

Can anyone explain for me what it means to "picking up a niggle" Is that some sort of injuries??
To me it looks like she is avoiding the cometition because she is not 100% shure she can win. I certainly hope I am wrong.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:01 am

icerunner wrote:Can anyone explain for me what it means to "picking up a niggle" Is that some sort of injuries??
To me it looks like she is avoiding the cometition because she is not 100% shure she can win. I certainly hope I am wrong.
I'm not English but if i understand it correctly, a niggle is a slight discomfort, like a headache or a minor cold, nothing serious.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Cranberry1 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:29 am

Lol, Aníta Hinriksdóttir is the favourite then and will be chasing another title. Unlikely Judd, she won't take part to the WC.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:37 am

That is pitty because Judd is such a magnificient runner. Would love to have seen Judd/Hinriksdottir clash in the finals. They could both have PR'ed.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:48 am

How is there a WUG, Euro U23, and Euro Juniors all in the same summer?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:52 am

dustoff wrote:How is there a WUG, Euro U23, and Euro Juniors all in the same summer?
+U18 WCs
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:40 am

Has anyone seen starting lists for day 1 anywhere?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:03 am

Flumpy wrote:This is giant f*ck up.

Euro Juniors should have been the focus [for Flumpy] for the year not the WC's.

Obviously she and her coach felt differently.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Rothosen » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:09 am

I'll have to ask the girls (16-18) on our summer basketball league if they would rather start and win a national high school championship or be selected to sit the bench and not play for the WNBA all-star game.

Nearest comparison I can come to passing on winning a Youth/Junior championship or going to the worlds and watching the final from the sidelines.

This depends on if Judd is in the top 12 of 800 runners and stands a chance to be in the final?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:18 am

Rothosen wrote:I'll have to ask the girls (16-18) on our summer basketball league if they would rather start and win a national high school championship or be selected to sit the bench and not play for the WNBA all-star game.

Nearest comparison I can come to passing on winning a Youth/Junior championship or going to the worlds and watching the final from the sidelines.

This depends on if Judd is in the top 12 of 800 runners and stands a chance to be in the final?

LOL! A youth championship don't mean shit! At best its a tall-assed meaningless trophy that clutters a room. I can see you feeling all Milton-y, but "better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven" doesn't apply on such a ridiculously insignificant level like Age-group/Youth/Juniors.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby booond » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:19 am

Rothosen wrote:I'll have to ask the girls (16-18) on our summer basketball league if they would rather start and win a national high school championship or be selected to sit the bench and not play for the WNBA all-star game.

Nearest comparison I can come to passing on winning a Youth/Junior championship or going to the worlds and watching the final from the sidelines.

This depends on if Judd is in the top 12 of 800 runners and stands a chance to be in the final?


The correct comparison is tryout with a good chance of making the best high school basketball team or tryout with a chance, slim as it is, of making the WNBA. I don't know what the correct answer is but I'd wondered about the competitive desires of a superior athlete who would want to settle for playing against inferior athletes.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:33 am

Can't the athlete have preferences that are different than the posters, and shouldn't the posters respect those preferences rather than making strong statements about what the athlete 'should' do?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Rothosen » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:45 am

Most responses seem to make the assumption that these peoples career are over after this year. They will never be in a WC again? They will never be able to challenge the best? If indeed these are flashes in the pan then I wonder, would I rather know I was World Youth/Jr Champion and then over the next few years found I couldn't make it at the higher level. Or found at 17-19 I couldn't compete at the higjer level AND never won it all at a lower level.

I find this an interesting question. Anita Hinriksdottir is the World Youth Champion. That can never be taken away. No one else can argue they are better because of a time trial or a one off performance. Perhaps Next week she will also be the European Youyh Champion. Same applies. Jessica Judd is not, nor will be. Her choice. I respect that. She knows she was the 2nd best last year. That can't be tsken away. But she can never maintain she was the best.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:56 am

I've always laughed when athletes have said, "they can never take that away from me". I think they're all paranoid because it's not like anyone's looking to take anything from them. But, the statement itself is stupid. OJ's Heisman trophy...was taken. MJ's medals...were taken. Pete Rose's induction to HOF...taken. Suzy Favor Hamilton Big 10 award...taken. Joe Paterno statue and almost everything with their name on it...taken.

Also, most people look at adults who point to their youth accomplishments with contempt. No one cares what you did when it doesn't matter; they care about what you do when it does. I'd rather sit on the bench of the worst team in MLB, NFL, NBA or even MLS for an entire season than have won the little league world series at age 13 under the idea that "no one could take it away from me".
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:10 pm

batonless relay wrote:I've always laughed when athletes have said, "they can never take that away from me". I think they're all paranoid because it's not like anyone's looking to take anything from them. But, the statement itself is stupid. OJ's Heisman trophy...was taken. MJ's medals...were taken. Pete Rose's induction to HOF...taken. Suzy Favor Hamilton Big 10 award...taken. Joe Paterno statue and almost everything with their name on it...taken.

Also, most people look at adults who point to their youth accomplishments with contempt. No one cares what you did when it doesn't matter; they care about what you do when it does. I'd rather sit on the bench of the worst team in MLB, NFL, NBA or even MLS for an entire season than have won the little league world series at age 13 under the idea that "no one could take it away from me".


Well in some sense we are putting a lot of pressure on athletes like Judd, Cain and others. Just all the publicity they are getting puts a lot of pressure on them. Let’s say either Cain or Judd would get hurt and not being able to perform properly until they are older than 20. Then you would ask them if they regretted their decision I would bet they would always answer yes.
A major title like EC or WYC or WJC matters on your resume and follows you and your career for the rest of your life.
Why don’t we just allow teens be teens and let them enjoy it while they can.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:47 pm

icerunner wrote:
batonless relay wrote:I've always laughed when athletes have said, "they can never take that away from me". I think they're all paranoid because it's not like anyone's looking to take anything from them. But, the statement itself is stupid. OJ's Heisman trophy...was taken. MJ's medals...were taken. Pete Rose's induction to HOF...taken. Suzy Favor Hamilton Big 10 award...taken. Joe Paterno statue and almost everything with their name on it...taken.

Also, most people look at adults who point to their youth accomplishments with contempt. No one cares what you did when it doesn't matter; they care about what you do when it does. I'd rather sit on the bench of the worst team in MLB, NFL, NBA or even MLS for an entire season than have won the little league world series at age 13 under the idea that "no one could take it away from me".


Well in some sense we are putting a lot of pressure on athletes like Judd, Cain and others. Just all the publicity they are getting puts a lot of pressure on them. Let’s say either Cain or Judd would get hurt and not being able to perform properly until they are older than 20. Then you would ask them if they regretted their decision I would bet they would always answer yes.
A major title like EC or WYC or WJC matters on your resume and follows you and your career for the rest of your life.
Why don’t we just allow teens be teens and let them enjoy it while they can.

in 2012 Mary Cain competed at the Olympic trials. In 2013 it was her stated goal to make the US Team for Moscow. Stop trying to make it seem like we're preventing her from achieving something that SHE doesn't really want. If anything, it is the likes of you and Rotheson who are preventing her from enjoying herself. By your reasoning, a reasoning I don't agree with, she should have run the High School State meet.

I would much rather be Yohan Blake than HAA or MLF and I would promise you that so would they, because the Sally Pearson's are few and far between.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:51 pm

icerunner wrote:A major title like EC or WYC or WJC matters on your resume and follows you and your career for the rest of your life.
It does? How many of the World Youth Champions from four years ago can you name without checking online? Or alternatively: Do you even remember where those 2009 WYCs took place? On the other hand, how many of the World Champions from 2009 can you name and what was the venue?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:08 pm

I watch T&F on Eurosport a lot and when the comentators are talking about athletes they usually list he/she is a finalist in the last olymics and/or world junior champion 2009 etc and it givest the athletes certain reputation.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:31 pm

I do not get it, why in the world would a poster think that they know what an athlete should want and that what the athlete actually wants is wrong? Clearly, it will depend on details of the athlete and training and family life etc that we just have little idea about. Posting that they 'should' do this or 'should do that' seems to be the height of conceit.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Rothosen » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:42 pm

batonless relay wrote:I've always laughed when athletes have said, "they can never take that away from me". I think they're all paranoid because it's not like anyone's looking to take anything from them. But, the statement itself is stupid. OJ's Heisman trophy...was taken. MJ's medals...were taken. Pete Rose's induction to HOF...taken. Suzy Favor Hamilton Big 10 award...taken. Joe Paterno statue and almost everything with their name on it...taken.

Also, most people look at adults who point to their youth accomplishments with contempt. No one cares what you did when it doesn't matter; they care about what you do when it does. I'd rather sit on the bench of the worst team in MLB, NFL, NBA or even MLS for an entire season than have won the little league world series at age 13 under the idea that "no one could take it away from me".


I'm sure with a little thought you could construct a more convoluted arguement. People who lost their awards because of Murder, gambling, prostitution, drugs, and child abuse are your reasons to think awards aren't secure? And last I looked the little league world series is below high school, college world series, AA, AAA and then the pros. You are comparing a five level drop to a single one Jrs. to Worlds.

Try this. Would you rather know you were the best Jr. in the world but couldn't cut the seniors. Or know you couldn't cut the seniors and have no idea if you could have won the Jrs.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby booond » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:47 pm

26mi235 wrote:I do not get it, why in the world would a poster think that they know what an athlete should want and that what the athlete actually wants is wrong? Clearly, it will depend on details of the athlete and training and family life etc that we just have little idea about. Posting that they 'should' do this or 'should do that' seems to be the height of conceit.


Couple points:

1.) You said this already and it grabbed no ink. What's the over/under on you posting the same thought?

2.) If you think posters shouldn't tell athletes what to do why do you then feel it's your place to tell posters what to do?

Just askin'
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:54 pm

booond wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2.) If you think posters shouldn't tell athletes what to do why do you then feel it's your place to tell posters what to do?

Just askin'
I can think of one reason: The chances an athlete will actually read what's been suggested to them are close to zero (making it pointless), the chances another poster will read it are much better.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby booond » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:16 pm

norunner wrote:
booond wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2.) If you think posters shouldn't tell athletes what to do why do you then feel it's your place to tell posters what to do?

Just askin'
I can think of one reason: The chances an athlete will actually read what's been suggested to them are close to zero (making it pointless), the chances another poster will read it are much better.


If the athlete won't read it then what does it matter what someone says? I would assume none of the athletes would take seriously my opinion or the opinions of anyone else here. It is a place for discussion and if someone thinks running in the WYC is better than the WC for a certain athlete who cares. I can agree or disagree and we can discuss it but never do I think my opinion has any legs beyond my laptop.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Rothosen » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:21 pm

booond wrote:
norunner wrote:
booond wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2.) If you think posters shouldn't tell athletes what to do why do you then feel it's your place to tell posters what to do?

Just askin'
I can think of one reason: The chances an athlete will actually read what's been suggested to them are close to zero (making it pointless), the chances another poster will read it are much better.


If the athlete won't read it then what does it matter what someone says? I would assume none of the athletes would take seriously my opinion or the opinions of anyone else here. It is a place for discussion and if someone thinks running in the WYC is better than the WC for a certain athlete who cares. I can agree or disagree and we can discuss it but never do I think my opinion has any legs beyond my laptop.


I actually wonder what % of athletes are making any of these decisions. How many of these decisions are being made by their coaches? And no, I don't believe the coaches are reading these posts either.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby booond » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:28 pm

I hope that the decision of where to run for an athlete who is 16/17 is left to the parents first, athlete second and coach third. I'm assuming that the athlete has loving, caring parents who will do their best in the situation.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Rothosen » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:48 pm

in 2012 Mary Cain competed at the Olympic trials. In 2013 it was her stated goal to make the US Team for Moscow. Stop trying to make it seem like we're preventing her from achieving something that SHE doesn't really want. If anything, it is the likes of you and Rotheson who are preventing her from enjoying herself. By your reasoning, a reasoning I don't agree with, she should have run the High School State meet.


If you had read my posts instead of just reflexively responding you would know I never, ever, once, said she shouldn't go to Moscow. I had said running in the WYC last week would have made sense. At least others suggested she might have wanted time at home, or that it might have been a strain or other logical answers.

In 2012 she did the US trials AND went to the WJC's. This was never an either or situation.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby icerunner » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:40 am

There was an article about Anita Hinriksdottir today in the local papers. There her coach made a plan for here when she was 15. There it was decided that she would not participate in any major outdoor competition like WC, EC and Olympic Games until she was 18 or older and not to put any pressure on her in terms of exercise until that year also. That means he is holding her back in terms of amount of work she is allowed to do on the track and in running in general. There is a constant debate between Anita and her coach, she wants to do more than her coach allows her to do. He is mainly concerned about her future and not letting her burn herself out to soon or getting unnecessary injuries or stress fractures.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:12 am

Rothosen wrote:
in 2012 Mary Cain competed at the Olympic trials. In 2013 it was her stated goal to make the US Team for Moscow. Stop trying to make it seem like we're preventing her from achieving something that SHE doesn't really want. If anything, it is the likes of you and Rotheson who are preventing her from enjoying herself. By your reasoning, a reasoning I don't agree with, she should have run the High School State meet.


If you had read my posts instead of just reflexively responding you would know I never, ever, once, said she shouldn't go to Moscow. I had said running in the WYC last week would have made sense. At least others suggested she might have wanted time at home, or that it might have been a strain or other logical answers.

In 2012 she did the US trials AND went to the WJC's. This was never an either or situation.

First, I read your post. Second, its YOU who are not making one bit of sense because Salazar and Cain never thought it made sense. Why you can't get that through your head is YOUR problem not mine (or the other people trying to show you why you're wrong). And, had she made the Olympic team in 2012, do you really think she would have still gone to WJCs? On second thought, don't answer:roll:
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:02 am

norunner wrote:
booond wrote:
26mi235 wrote:2.) If you think posters shouldn't tell athletes what to do why do you then feel it's your place to tell posters what to do?

Just askin'
I can think of one reason: The chances an athlete will actually read what's been suggested to them are close to zero (making it pointless), the chances another poster will read it are much better.


Because the athletes know themselves (and are professionals) and you do not know them, which is why there is an element of conceit to think that you know better than they what they want to do and what they prefer to do.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby booond » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:36 am

26mi235 wrote:Because the athletes know themselves (and are professionals) and you do not know them, which is why there is an element of conceit to think that you know better than they what they want to do and what they prefer to do.


What difference does it make that they are professionals? Professionals, in all fields, make mistakes all the time.

And no one is saying they know better. People are opining what they would do or what they think the athlete should do. They may be right, they may be wrong but to think that the athlete will be 100% right for their career is ludicrous, at best.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby lonewolf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:45 am

I suspect elite athletes avoid discussion forums for the same reason I (try to) avoid the annual Free Speech forum, No good can come from it.
Inevitably, their performances/training will be criticized and their strategy/motives/goals impugned.

Maybe there is a form of S&M that enjoys insulting and being insulted? :? Not for me.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Tuariki » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:27 pm

Hinriksdottir cruised to a 2:01 - let's hope she can get under 2:00 in the final.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:16 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hinriksdottir cruised to a 2:01 - let's hope she can get under 2:00 in the final.
Always someone who spoils the joys of upcoming S&M discussions with actual sports. 8-)
I don't think she'll go below 2 minutes because there is nobody in that final to push her. I was actually laughing earlier because i read an interview with one of the three germans in the 800m final and she said the motto for the final is "3 against Anita" and i was thinking more like "3 seconds behind Anita".
On a different subject, what's up with the russian team? Especially the women's side seems to be pretty weak with many events not even entered. Nobody over 100, 200, only one over 800, 1500, nobody in the long jump, shotput, hammer, hep. Some of those are usually strong russian events so it's weird that they don't have anyone there.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby andyjgt » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:46 pm

I don't think she's totally without competition - Sidorska does have a 2:01.00 from the Pechonkina meet in Yerino, only .51 behind the Icelander's PB, though she did have the benefit of running behind a quality field including Savinova, Kupina, Arzamasava et al, while the Icelander front-ran her time solo.
(Not saying Hinriksdottir isn't favourite, of course she is!)
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby Powell » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:54 am

Nafissatou Thiam just set a big PB with 6.37 in LJ and looks to be on course for 6200+ in the heptathlon. Possibly close to 6300 if she tries a bit harder in the 800 (she only ran 2:31 in her one heptathlon this year, and I think she can go a few seconds faster).
Sofia Linde may well end up in the 6100+ territory as well.

If the top 4 match the results from their SB heptathlons in the last 2 events, the end result will be:
Thiam 6207
Linde 6107
Visser 5885
Lindemans 5807
But, seeing as they've all been performing way, way above that level so far, 3rd and 4th place could be close to 6000. This could be the best junior heptathlon in terms of overall quality in a long time.
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby DCSIGMA » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:44 am

is there a live stream to the meet?
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Re: European Junior Championship in Italy

Postby norunner » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:01 am

DCSIGMA wrote:is there a live stream to the meet?
Yes: http://eurovision.digotel.com/ea/index.html
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