Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)


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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:22 pm

I believe someone mentioned in another thread the the HS has a brand new track.

That's quite a statement from Salazar about Hasay's recent workout...given that he coached Kara Goucher for some time.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:27 am

Update from Ken Goe:

The Jordan Hasay-Tara Erdmann attempt to Q for the WC is now "up in the air"......almost literally!!

Meaning, Alberto Salazar has been closely monitoring long-range weather forecasts, and he MIGHT move the date from the 15th.....as that day might be too hot.

Mentioned was Sunday, the 14th, as one possibility, when the weather forecast is supposed to be better.

Also, there is some concern that the Roosevelt HS track may not meet IAAF specifications, so another site in Portland is being considered.
As well, Coach Johnson of UO has offered Hayward Field as a possible site.

Stay tuned for further updates, or follow Ken Goe on Twitter.

BTW, nothing was said about the rest of the meet, which is to include several other races, including an attempt by Trevor Dunbar to run under 4:00 for the mile, becoming the first Alaskan to do so!!
But I assume the entire meet would be moved, not just the women's 10K.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:20 pm

According to a report from Flotrack, as tweeted by Oiselle, the Hasay-Erdmann 10K is now scheduled for SUNDAY, the 14th, at 10:30 p.m., pacific time!!

NOT stated (in the tweet) is whether the meet is still at Roosevelt HS, or whether it's still in Portland, and what's happening with the remainder of the meet.....the other events.

Stay tuned.
Updates will follow as soon as I hear anything!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby huntinwr » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:25 pm

aaronk wrote:According to a report from Flotrack, as tweeted by Oiselle, the Hasay-Erdmann 10K is now scheduled for SUNDAY, the 14th, at 10:30 p.m., pacific time!!

NOT stated (in the tweet) is whether the meet is still at Roosevelt HS, or whether it's still in Portland, and what's happening with the remainder of the meet.....the other events.

Stay tuned.
Updates will follow as soon as I hear anything!!


Thanks for that. I'm coming to Portland Sunday, so I hope it happens!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:59 pm

From Portland Track comes this update:

The 10K will be the only race run Sunday, starting at 10:30 p.m. Pacific time at Roosevelt HS.
The rest of the meet will be held, as scheduled, Monday (no time given for 1st event), also at Roosevelt HS in Portland.

Would strongly recommend to anyone who plans on going...to check with Portland Track and/or Flotrack for any last minute changes!!
I'll be monitoring Twitter, and will report any news I find!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:16 pm

Twitter aflutter with an updated race time for the 10,000m at 9:30 pacific.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tandfman » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:18 pm

There also seems to have been a change of venue, at least for the Sunday 10K. It's now at Jesuit High School, not Roosevelt.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:22 pm

LOTS of confusion about this Hasay/Erdmann 10K!!!

First it was reported it would be run at 10:30 p.m. Pacific time on Sunday at Roosevelt HS in Portland.
Now it's being reported that the race (or time trial!!!) will be held Sunday.....but at 9:30.......and NOT at Roosevelt HS, but at Jesuit HS....also in Portland!!

ALSO........there is some confusion as to whether Jordan Hasay will run alone (with pacers, of course!!)......or in tandem with Tara Erdmann!!

Portland Track.....who seem to be the meet organizer (in agreement with Alberto Salazar).......is calling it (in tweets) the "Jordan Hasay 10K".
Why only her name??

A few people (one from Oiselle) are now VERY confused about all the different announcements!!
But if Portland Track (who put on the PTF) are saying it's at Jesuit at 9:30.....I'd have to believe them........UNTIL/UNLESS there are MORE announcements!!! :shock: :roll:
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:34 pm

Chris Nickinson of RunnerSpace is now tweeting that Hasay will run Sunday, and "Tara later in the week"......no specific day given!!
And no reason given either!!
He says the rest of the meet (supposedly NOT Erdmann's 10K!!!) will still happen Monday night!!

Stay tuned!! :?

ADD: I tweeted Chris Nickinson about what he said, asking if Erdmann was sick.
He tweeted back....."No idea. At this point I don't care. The shenanigans of time trial have left me disinterested."

SOMEone.......SOON......needs to send out a DETAILED account of what's going on!!
This is getting ridiculous.....and I'm dead serious!!

(Before you attack me, this "confusion" is all over Twitterville and RunnerSpace forum....and probably other sites too!! It needs to be cleared up!!)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:11 pm

aaronk wrote:Chris Nickinson of RunnerSpace is now tweeting that Hasay will run Sunday, and "Tara later in the week"......no specific day given!!
And no reason given either!!
He says the rest of the meet (supposedly NOT Erdmann's 10K!!!) will still happen Monday night!!

Stay tuned!! :?

ADD: I tweeted Chris Nickinson about what he said, asking if Erdmann was sick.
He tweeted back....."No idea. At this point I don't care. The shenanigans of time trial have left me disinterested."

SOMEone.......SOON......needs to send out a DETAILED account of what's going on!!
This is getting ridiculous.....and I'm dead serious!!

(Before you attack me, this "confusion" is all over Twitterville and RunnerSpace forum....and probably other sites too!! It needs to be cleared up!!)


I'm losing interest, too. Also, all you have to do is go to the meet's facebook page where the header has one time and place and the messaging has another. It's a total cockup.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:14 pm

aaronk wrote:Chris Nickinson of RunnerSpace is now tweeting that Hasay will run Sunday, and "Tara later in the week"......no specific day given!!
And no reason given either!!
He says the rest of the meet (supposedly NOT Erdmann's 10K!!!) will still happen Monday night!!

Stay tuned!! :?

ADD: I tweeted Chris Nickinson about what he said, asking if Erdmann was sick.
He tweeted back....."No idea. At this point I don't care. The shenanigans of time trial have left me disinterested."

SOMEone.......SOON......needs to send out a DETAILED account of what's going on!!
This is getting ridiculous.....and I'm dead serious!!

(Before you attack me, this "confusion" is all over Twitterville and RunnerSpace forum....and probably other sites too!! It needs to be cleared up!!)

I'm with Nickinson. Who really cares about a time trial jack-up for 2 athletes attempting to gain a start in a race where they will almost certainly end up being lapped- and maybe struggling not to get lapped twice.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:32 pm

THIS BS of changing everything is the reason from day one at Nationals I cried foul. I knew this would happen with the date, the time. Qualifying should only be allowed in same sex events in pre-set meets with sanctions.

Interestingly the weather forecast is actually now showing a very warm Sunday eve with a high of 94 and a temp of 76 at 10:30 with a low that night of 70 so even if he waits until 4 in the morning its going to be warm. Monday about the same as is most of next week.



To get a sanction USATF's bylaws state the following:
meets must get an international sanction when meet has 5 or more foreign athletes which I understand this meet will likely have. It also mentions for international sanctions doping control has to be provided for. I checked the sanction and its for July 15-19 so anything held on the 14th is not valid unless they got that changed 2 weeks in advance and just didn't make the change on the website. For the competition to be valid it specificies all the certified officials needed or the competition is considered invalid. I am certain they have some certified officials in tow but will they have the requisite judges and will they warn the men running with Hasay that they are in violation of the rule I cite below that is still forbidden by the IAAF. Somehow Alberto got some bad advice and its all going to blow up in his face rather than just have said lets find an existing meet in Europe and lets do this. It certainly just adds to his reputation as doing nefarious crap and Nike really should be ashamed to have links to it with him and their athletes. Certainlny there are at least 10-12 other women world wide seeking such a meet and would have shown in Amsterdam area where Nike has its Euro HQ or in NOP unis and its just bad for the sport.

For those into the actual rules of competition there is all of this which by my reading means that pacing is not allowed at all even if the race is mixed which is in the spirit of what the IAAF has always stated.
Then while IAAF rules may allow men and women in the same race it does CLEARLY say this in the USATF rule book: 3. The following shall be considered assistance:
(a) Pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the event,
by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind of technical
device other than those permitted under Rule 144.3i. Someone who is in the race is only in it to pace is not thus in the competition especially males in the female race. Clearly USATF has rules already in place to prevent this sort of travesty from taking place but people are either looking the other way or just shrugging and saying I don't want to fight God Almighty Nike.

additionally this: In a track event, any competitor competing to lose or to coach another
competitor shall forfeit the right to be in the competition and shall
be disqualified.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:33 pm

A little down it says: Any athlete giving or receiving assistance during any event other than
permitted in Rule 144.3 must be cautioned by the Referee and warned that
for any repetition, he or she will be disqualified from that event. If such
disqualification occurs, any performance accomplished up to that time in the
same event session shall not be considered valid. Performances accomplished
in any previous event session, such as a qualifying round, shall stand.

Performances achieved in mixed events between male and female participants
(see Rule 147) will only be accepted under the following circumstances:
o For all field events and races of 5000m and over held completely in the
stadium the results will be:
 Automatically accepted if achieved at National Permit competitions
 Accepted only with the Area Association's approval if achieved at
competitions under IAAF Rule 1.1 (i) and (j)
 Never accepted if achieved at competitions conducted under IAAF
Rule 1.1 (a) to (h)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:00 pm

ValleyRunner......
I'm tending now to agree with you.
I WAS excited about this run.
I love time trials, marks chasing distance races.
BUT.....
as soon as they announced it would be a mixed race, I got turned off.
Like you said, they should have....and could have....found some meet in Europe....maybe in northern Europe where it might be cooler......and run their needed Q's......in an all-female race.

Hate to say this, but right now, I'm hoping this whole thing blows up in their faces...and Hastings and Goucher get to go!!
This is a F--King FARCE!!!!!

BUT......I'll be watching via Flotrack!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby James Fields » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:57 am

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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:34 am

One change seems to be due to the IAAF not being necessarily satisfied for the fix to the track on the Monday meet.

I suggest that those who think it is a fraud to just not bother having someone checking off a box necessary to compete. To get bent out of shape because they want to have a 10,000m race that is not run in hot weather seems to be the height of unnecessary pique. Let us imagine a sprinter with one race allowed to obtain a 100m time and they set up the race to run in to a 1.5mps wind. Would you think it stupid to change the direction?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:44 am

This is a mockery of performance standards, especially when there is already an athlete that has the standard and didn't do so under some crazy scenario.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:04 am

So, is it a mockery of performance standards when they get 15 distance runners in a paceline 5000m run? Are all of those marathon world records a mockery; that is a much bigger issue, because those are records rather then just a metric to determine what set of competitors will be allowed into a meet? The IAAF has set guidelines; anything that meets those guidelines is not a mockery but a response to the incentives.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:15 am

26mi235 wrote:So, is it a mockery of performance standards when they get 15 distance runners in a paceline 5000m run? Are all of those marathon world records a mockery; that is a much bigger issue, because those are records rather then just a metric to determine what set of competitors will be allowed into a meet? The IAAF has set guidelines; anything that meets those guidelines is not a mockery but a response to the incentives.


It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

I am not saying it is against any rules. I think it is against the spirit of things and incredibly silly. Hell, why stop here? Why not do it for every non-lane female race?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tandfman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:58 am

dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:48 am

tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby effable » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:54 am

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!"


I believe this gives her the "B", which still puts her on the team.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:13 pm

aaronk wrote:
tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:25 pm

booond wrote:
aaronk wrote:
tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:26 pm

In the rules it clearly says if you are not in the same event then you can not be involved in pacing. Men are a SEPARATE EVENT from the women in the 10,000. This is where Salazar is still going to get called on when the IAAF view the video and rule the performance null and void. Read the rule I posted. Says athletes even in the same competition meaning of the same sex can't slow down and when lapped then run with the faster runner.

Also what happens tomorrow night when the temp is still a little too tough on Jordan and about 5k she is at 16:11 and realizes I can't hold anything close? Is she going to drop out as Alberto has promised her a 2nd chance in a few days before the deadline.

This whole thing is just absurd. Even if it is allowed to stand which I sincerely doubt (where is Bob Hersh when you need him?) The USATF is clearly embarrassed by this but the silence is due to Nike forcing this down their throat. If Hasay were a Brooks athlete there would be no chance in hell this happens.

I know for a fact there will be a protest filed if she gets the standard and based on the rules as I read them there is no way her mark will stand up being contested. Like aaronk said as well, we are doing this to allow hew to get lapped a couple times at the Worlds and finish well back why?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tm71 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:35 pm

I agree that this is a farce and I would prefer USATF use the USOT rules for all qualifying meets in the future. If u don't have the needed standard by the end of the USATF or USOT meet then u isn't make the team. Period. And these farsical races won't happen ever again !
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby TN1965 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:44 pm

If you think this is a farce, blame the people who set up the rules, not the ones who are taking advantage of the stupid rules.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:48 pm

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??


I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tandfman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:55 pm

tm71 wrote:I agree that this is a farce and I would prefer USATF use the USOT rules for all qualifying meets in the future. If u don't have the needed standard by the end of the USATF or USOT meet then u isn't make the team. Period. And these farsical races won't happen ever again !

They had to do that last year because the entry deadline for the Olympics was something like a day or two after the trials. The entry deadline for this year permitted chasing by anyone who finished in the top 4 in the Nationals. I think that's reasonable.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:26 pm

dustoff wrote:... a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

When did this happen?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:27 pm

Newest news.

Tara Erdmann's 10K will be run on July 19th at Jesuit HS at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time.
Although they (Portland Track) say the time (not the date!) is "tentative"!!

Stay tuned! :roll:
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:41 pm

aaronk wrote:
booond wrote:What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??

OMG. You are such a hypocrite.
You love to pontificate that records must be set within "ethical standards" except when "your" young girls set a record outside of those "ethical standards". Eg, Cayla Hatton.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby CookyMonzta » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:44 pm

booond wrote:
Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??


I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?

And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:00 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?

And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?


Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers? The problem with your thinking about pacemakers is that they will assure Hasay runs faster than she is capable. They don't. She can only run as fast as she can... funny how our bodies are like that. No matter how many times I race Bolt I can only run as fast as my legs will carry me not as fast as his.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby CookyMonzta » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:03 pm

booond wrote:Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers?

A good chance the answer will be yes, as far as the IAAF possibly ruling the performance illegal is concerned.

What is the IAAF rule (if there is a rule) concerning women's qualifying standards and performances achieved on the track in races with male pacesetters?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:47 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?


The rules for having WRs ratified and qualifying for a meet can be different. They also may have changed over the last 35 years as well.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:48 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
booond wrote:Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers?

A good chance the answer will be yes, as far as the IAAF possibly ruling the performance illegal is concerned.

What is the IAAF rule (if there is a rule) concerning women's qualifying standards and performances achieved on the track in races with male pacesetters?


Answer below.
Last edited by Dutra5 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:53 pm

One rule that should be in place is that its a real competition. An event in which only one female is a participant is not a competition so I think that is critical point here. There is no competition here. By thus allowing this in the future others will do the same time and again and the sport will become a joke! I actually believe by the end of the year at the convention for USATF as well as the IAAF congress there will be rules changes put in place to stop this as many at the high end of the sport are aghast and angry this is taking place and feel powerless at the moment to stop it because they are not properly reading the rulebook. If they properly read it then they would read that those not in the event can't pace and men and women are not participating in the same event - they are in separate events being contested at the same time. Like a marathon.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:54 pm

It is addressed:

However, mixed stadium competition in Field Events and in races of 5000m or longer may be permitted in all competitions except those held under Rules 1.1(a) to (h). In the case of competitions held under Rules 1.1(i) and (j) such mixed competition shall be allowed in a particular competition if specifically permitted by the relevant Area governing body.


Rule 1 addresses International competitions and does not apply. So there's the answer. The competition can be a mixed gender event.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:10 pm

bushop wrote:
dustoff wrote:... a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

When did this happen?


I agree, the complaints really are out of touch with reality. Hasay is a collegian. Let us look at how many real opportunities she had to set and qualifying mark. She ran the first two 10,000s of her life in the spring, just missing the B in her first real attempt at the distance (the first race was designed just to get her a feel for the distance). Then, her racing opportunities were entirely comprised of: the Pac-12 champs; the very hot Regional race (where no one was going to get the A short of Dibaba-class runners in humid, 90-degree heat). Then she came back and ran the 5000 and qualified, to everyone's surprise. Then she ran the 5000 at NCAAs (with no chance to run the 10,000). Then, she had the hot race at the Trials where she ran a very credible mark not too much shy of the B. Now, she is running her next race after recovering from her extended peak trying to make the team.

Anyone that really thinks that she has been deficient really ought to crawl under a rock, as far as I am concerned. And, there are some rather knowledgeable posters spotting such things. And none of the runners probably care that people are saying a bunch of foolish things.
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