World Youth Championship


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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby LopenUupunut » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:51 am

Has Hinriksdottir grown out of front-running yet? She might have the times - and room for still better - but from what I've seen she doesn't have Cain's kick or tactical acumen.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:55 am

Count me (again) as one of the people who thinks one of the smartest decisions Mary Cain will make regarding her 2013 season is to ignore World Youth and go to the World Championship. She can't run every race, and some races even though they might have rigorous competition are certainly not the equal of competing at the World Championships. Mary Cain is already one of the best in America and she wants to see how she stacks up against the world's best. Nothing about that is a mistake from where I sit.

All that said, I think World Youth (and Youth Olympics, for that matter) is unnecessary anyway. To be more frank: it's a waste, I wish it didn't exist. We already have World Juniors and I think the "brand extension" nonsense that seems prevalent within the walls of the IOC and and it's umbrella orgs needs to be stopped. What's next? Worlds for seniors who never before made their senior national team? Or veterans who've never taken an aspirin? RIght before they cancel World Cross Country they need to cancel World Youth.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby icerunner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:04 am

The reason for Hinriksdottir's front running has been in the past that she wants to improve her time. Today was different she was very carefull by covering the first lap in 61.5 sec which is a lot slower than she normally does. She might want to blast it out in the semi finals and just run a tactical final. I know she wants to break two minutes and the time to do it is in the semi finals not the finals. She will get another change of breaking the two minutes in the European Junior Championship againts Jessica Judd in a week from now.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:08 am

You can't put it all on Cain's shoulders!
Yes, she would almost certainly have won her race....whatever it was....at WY.
But she wasn't the only good female mid/long distance runner this year.
Don't know if their age(s) would qualify for WY, but why didn't Wesley Frazier, Erin Finn, Elise Cranny, Sabrina Southerland, etc etc try for WY??

I saw where Alexa Efraimson and Anna Maxwell made the 1500 final!!

ADD: About Efraimson.
On the T&FN list.......dated as of July 1......Efraimson's best at 1500 is listed as 4:19.54.
She improved to 4:16.00 at PTF, finishing just behind Elise Cranny's 4:15.86.
Cranny's best is her 4:15.07, which is correctly listed.
Last edited by aaronk on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:34 am

According to USATF report, Keturah Orji TJ'd 44 and 3/4 to Q for the final.
That moves her to # 5 A-T on the outdoor HS list!
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby norunner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:51 am

LopenUupunut wrote:Has Hinriksdottir grown out of front-running yet? She might have the times - and room for still better - but from what I've seen she doesn't have Cain's kick or tactical acumen.
I'm guessing she is used to frontrunning simply because at home there was/is absolutely nobody who could challenge her. I doubt she would try to run from the front in a DL league race.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 18.99s » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:12 am

icerunner wrote:It is really too bad Mary Cain is not there and unfortunate for her. Was she too good to be there or what? I suspect she is going to regret her decision not to be there after Moscow. I sincerely hope she is going to do well in Moscow but there is a lot of pressure on her at this young age. Why not allowing her to be the fine young athlete she really is?


If anything it's less pressure on her to be at the Worlds, where she definitely isn't expected to win and may not make the final. If she doesn't get past the first round, no big deal, take it as a learning experience. But if she reaches the final or even wins a medal that's a huge confidence booster and a big increase in her sponsorship options if she goes pro in the next 1 or 2 years. It's a no-lose situation.

Whereas at the World Youths, anything less than gold would be a disappointment.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby az2004 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:19 am

I still think the experience cain will get in Moscow with mature women is more than she could get in Ukraine

next year in Eugene is a different story

getting to Moscow w1500 finals is not assured, but her last 400 is good enough to give her a fighting chance to make the final 12

just have a fighting chance is good enough for me at 17
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:32 am

Ariana Washington is only a junior?
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Master Po » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:47 am

JumboElliott wrote:Ariana Washington is only a junior?


According to ca.milesplit.com (which I presume usually has these things right), yes:

http://ca.milesplit.com/athletes/189079 ... d63CI7d7ww
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby DCSIGMA » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:13 am

Dior hall....13.16 into a headwind 100mH
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:35 am

DCSIGMA wrote:Dior hall....13.16 into a headwind 100mH


If she were a senior, she'd have the class record!
But Candy Young's HSR of 12.95 was run in her junior year!!
Still, Hall is # 4 on the A-T list!!
With another year to go!!
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby LadyT » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:46 am

If I am not mistaken the hurdle height is lower than the high school height.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:28 am

DCSIGMA wrote:Dior hall....13.16 into a headwind 100mH

Mikiah Brisco is also into the final which is notable since she only found out a couple of weeks ago that she'd be running over 30" hurdles, and ran them for the first time at the trials.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:31 am

Is there a live video link for this meet?
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby icerunner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:38 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Is there a live video link for this meet?


http://linkupvideos.com/the-8th-iaaf-wo ... 0b5e9.html
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby eman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:53 am

The world youth qualifying meet was held on June 25th and 26th. If you made the team you were required to be in Collinsville, IL no later than June 30th. From there you stayed till they made the trip to Donetsk on July 4th with a return back in the states by July 16th.

So the athletes who made the team will be gone from home from June 24th till July 16th.

IMHO there has been some unfair criticism of Mary Cain, the fact that she had to run two rounds against the best the US has to offer in the 1500 and then turn around 2 or 3 days later and run 1 of 3 races 2 of which were scheduled for a prelim. Now here is where I feel the criticism is unfounded, Mary Cain was entered into all 3 distance races for world youth qualifying and I feel had she not made the world team was more than prepared to attempt to qualify for the world youth team.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:00 am

Eman you missed my point on the 3000m. She would have went if she walked the 3000! As for a 17 year old wanting to spend an extra two weeks with mom and dad do you know any 17 year olds? Remember being 17? They look for excuses to not be home. As for assured victory? That's laughably parochial. All three medalists ran faster than Cain hss run. Your betting they couldn't run even faster? On what basis.

Somehow I doubt running the DL in London is better then faceing competitors you will see next year in Eugene. AND PLEASE WAKE UP! This was not an either or proposition. She would be well rested in a month for the Worlds. Look at the calendar.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:10 am

Rothosen wrote:Eman you missed my point on the 3000m. She would have went if she walked the 3000! As for a 17 year old wanting to spend an extra two weeks with mom and dad do you know any 17 year olds? Remember being 17? They look for excuses to not be home. As for assured victory? That's laughably parochial. All three medalists ran faster than Cain hss run. Your betting they couldn't run even faster? On what basis.

Somehow I doubt running the DL in London is better then faceing competitors you will see next year in Eugene. AND PLEASE WAKE UP! This was not an either or proposition. She would be well rested in a month for the Worlds. Look at the calendar.


Interesting that I get attacked for PRAISING Mary Cain......and here's some folks who are, in essence, DISSING Mary Cain......and nary one word is being said in critique!! :?

BTW, as to Cain winning or losing the 3K, if she had run......her indoor 3K's were NOT indicative of her true, and current potential over that distance.
Her 9:02.10 in Seattle was her first track race since the WJ's....and she WON it, beating, among others, her current training partner, Treniere Moser!!
Her 9:04.51, run enroute to her two mile time of 9:38.68, was a CONTROLLED race....until maybe the last 200.
Salazar had told her to FORGET the top women....i.e. Tirunesh Dibaba....and run with the others.
So, forgetting Dibaba, she did as she was instructed, and finished 2nd to only Sheila Reid....and then by less than 1 second.
And Reid ain't no slouch!!
My guess is, Cain is capable of a sub-8:40 for 3K.
At worst, maybe 8:45!!
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby jamal00005 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:54 am

1 475 Yanique THOMPSON JAM 12 Mar 96 4 12.94 WYB 0.150
2 774 Dior HALL USA 02 Jan 96 3 13.01 PB 0.143
3 765 Mikiah BRISCO USA 14 Jul 96 8 13.29 PB 0.198
4 468 Rushelle BURTON JAM 04 Dec 97 5 13.32 PB 0.189
5 700 Adriana JANIC SWE 19 Jun 96 6 13.33 PB 0.125
6 359 Chantal BUTZEK GER 25 Feb 97 2 13.40 PB 0.182
7 402 Luca KOZÁK HUN 01 Jun 96 7 13.62 0.174
8 656 Iuliia SOKOLOVA RUS 20 Apr 96 1 13.72 0.146

Very close race between those 2 ....Hurdling is just getting better :D
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:31 am

Having followed Mary Cain since the indoor championship at Cornell in 2009 I am hardly "dissing" her. I believe her coach is deciding where and when she runs. When I said she ducked the YC I wrongly assumed you would realize I meant Salazar had her duck the YCs. Sorry for the confusion.

However there is a reality to address. Having one time run 800m a second faster then Hinriksdottir in no way assures her of victory. Having run 9:02 on a 300m track points she can go faster. How much? And how one assumes the current season record holders in the 3000m (three of them) cannot also run faster is parochial enthusiasm at best. She has not beat the Kenyans or Ethiopians yet, or ever. Kipyegon seems capable of dropping her time when required. You think this current group is any less capable? On what assumption.

Mary Cain is the best American youth in forty years. Is she the best youth in the World? We won't know. She wouldn't for whatever reason race against them.

As for the other youths mentioned. They are all too old for the WY except Cranny who for reasons of her own does not run after school ends.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby sprintdoc » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 am

The hurdle heights in all events are the exact same as US HS hurdles.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:47 am

Rothosen wrote:Having followed Mary Cain since the indoor championship at Cornell in 2009 I am hardly "dissing" her. I believe her coach is deciding where and when she runs. When I said she ducked the YC I wrongly assumed you would realize I meant Salazar had her duck the YCs. Sorry for the confusion.

However there is a reality to address. Having one time run 800m a second faster then Hinriksdottir in no way assures her of victory. Having run 9:02 on a 300m track points she can go faster. How much? And how one assumes the current season record holders in the 3000m (three of them) cannot also run faster is parochial enthusiasm at best. She has not beat the Kenyans or Ethiopians yet, or ever. Kipyegon seems capable of dropping her time when required. You think this current group is any less capable? On what assumption.

Mary Cain is the best American youth in forty years. Is she the best youth in the World? We won't know. She wouldn't for whatever reason race against them.

As for the other youths mentioned. They are all too old for the WY except Cranny who for reasons of her own does not run after school ends.

You are certainly dissing Mary Cain if you can't find another words aside from "duck" to describer her CHOICE to not participate at a non-consequential meet like World Youth. I suppose that Usain Bolt and Allyson Felix were ducking World Juniors when they opted to compete at the Olympics in 2004.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:59 am

Ah yes...Usain Bolt...who had already won a World Championship...the inconsequential World Youth Championship you were referring to.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby booond » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 am

batonless relay wrote:
Rothosen wrote:Having followed Mary Cain since the indoor championship at Cornell in 2009 I am hardly "dissing" her. I believe her coach is deciding where and when she runs. When I said she ducked the YC I wrongly assumed you would realize I meant Salazar had her duck the YCs. Sorry for the confusion.

However there is a reality to address. Having one time run 800m a second faster then Hinriksdottir in no way assures her of victory. Having run 9:02 on a 300m track points she can go faster. How much? And how one assumes the current season record holders in the 3000m (three of them) cannot also run faster is parochial enthusiasm at best. She has not beat the Kenyans or Ethiopians yet, or ever. Kipyegon seems capable of dropping her time when required. You think this current group is any less capable? On what assumption.

Mary Cain is the best American youth in forty years. Is she the best youth in the World? We won't know. She wouldn't for whatever reason race against them.

As for the other youths mentioned. They are all too old for the WY except Cranny who for reasons of her own does not run after school ends.

You are certainly dissing Mary Cain if you can't find another words aside from "duck" to describer her CHOICE to not participate at a non-consequential meet like World Youth. I suppose that Usain Bolt and Allyson Felix were ducking World Juniors when they opted to compete at the Olympics in 2004.


The word "duck" is the problem. Your usage suggests she's avoiding other runners because she's afraid to run against them.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 am

sprintdoc wrote:The hurdle heights in all events are the exact same as US HS hurdles.

I don't think so. High school girls 100 hurdles are 33" and youth girls are 30".

http://www.usatf.org/groups/officials/f ... eb2011.pdf
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:08 am

Mia Culpa...should not have used ducked.

She avoided the WYC because the non-DL london race was more consequential
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:14 am

Rothosen wrote:Mia Culpa...should not have used ducked.

She avoided the WYC because the non-DL london race was more consequential

That works for me.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby starboyunlimited » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:24 am

Video Races:

Girls 100m Final Ky Westbrook (USA) 11.33 (-0.8m/s) - http://youtu.be/wqSkomcDa-s

Girls 100mh Final Yanique Thompson (JAM) 12.94 (0.0m/s)
World Youth Best - http://youtu.be/fgPCeVjGhJs

Boys 100m Final Close finish 1-3 : Youxue Mo (CHN) 10.35 Ojie Edoburun (GBR) 10.35 (-0.4m/s)
http://youtu.be/ZYPHxVrcn4M
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby tm71 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:28 am

Rothosen wrote:
icerunner wrote:It is really too bad Mary Cain is not there and unfortunate for her. Was she too good to be there or what? I suspect she is going to regret her decision not to be there after Moscow. I sincerely hope she is going to do well in Moscow but there is a lot of pressure on her at this young age. Why not allowing her to be the fine young athlete she really is?


Agree 100%. There was absolutely no reason for her to duck the World Championship for youths. There is no guarantee she could have won the 3000/800 and may even have had her hands full in the 1500. She would have had to pick one, but the 3000 she wouldn't even have needed to have a race at the trials. She wsd the only one qualified. So the US ended up without a single representative. Embarrasing!


i dont see the need for all these competitions either, especially the youth olympics and the world university games. fifa has done the same thing with multiple age restricted tournaments for both men's and women's soccer. some of these tournaments are nothing but a platform for big club tream scouts to raid their teams of young talent. looking at past us medalists from the previous world youth championships, i would venture to say that half of those have NEVER had a pro or even college career to speak of. succeeding at this level does not guarantee success in the future and conversely not competing does not forecast failure either.
i dont see any reason to disparage cain for skipping this meet when she is good enough to compete with the best in her event in moscow. to use the soccer analogy, brazilian legend pele should have never competed in the 1958 at age 17 (a tournament him and his team won) because he could have theoretically competed at an age restricted tournament.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:54 am

Rothosen wrote:As for a 17 year old wanting to spend an extra two weeks with mom and dad do you know any 17 year olds? Remember being 17? They look for excuses to not be home. As for assured victory?


I have a 17-year old, and Eman has this down (much) better than you. It is one thing to want to be out of the house when you do not have that much going on. But, when you are as busy with a full time job of school and another one of track, I would bet a 17-year old girl would want to spend more time at home, not less. [Besides, she is a self-professed nerd, not a prom queen]
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby booond » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:55 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Rothosen wrote:As for a 17 year old wanting to spend an extra two weeks with mom and dad do you know any 17 year olds? Remember being 17? They look for excuses to not be home. As for assured victory?


I have a 17-year old, and Eman has this down (much) better than you. It is one thing to want to be out of the house when you do not have that much going on. But, when you are as busy with a full time job of school and another one of track, I would bet a 17-year old girl would want to spend more time at home, not less. [Besides, she is a self-professed nerd, not a prom queen]


Plus, there is a difference from wanting to hang with your friends at the mall and be away from home for three weeks.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby eman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:00 pm

Rothosen wrote:Eman you missed my point on the 3000m. She would have went if she walked the 3000! As for a 17 year old wanting to spend an extra two weeks with mom and dad do you know any 17 year olds? Remember being 17? They look for excuses to not be home. As for assured victory? That's laughably parochial. All three medalists ran faster than Cain hss run. Your betting they couldn't run even faster? On what basis.

Somehow I doubt running the DL in London is better then faceing competitors you will see next year in Eugene. AND PLEASE WAKE UP! This was not an either or proposition. She would be well rested in a month for the Worlds. Look at the calendar.


Rothosen, for the "do you know any 17 year olds?" part of your post I forgive you. You don't know who I am so there is no way you could have known that I have been a club and high school track coach for 25 years now, thus knowing my fair share of 17 year old's.

And I am fully aware that the Moscow trip is a full month after the Donetsk trip thus giving young Mary Cain a month to recover and hopefully be ready for the World Championships.

My only question to you is, who else is doing the World Youth/World Championships double?
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby norunner » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:06 pm

eman wrote:My only question to you is, who else is doing the World Youth/World Championships double?
That's not a fair question though, because how many other youth athletes are good enough to even qualify for Moscow? I can think of one, Hinriksdottir, and she would not be a good example because she does a different double, U18WC and U20EC within a week and she and her coach decided she should not go to Moscow.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby booond » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Does Mary Cain stand to gain more or lose more by competing?
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Master Po » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:00 pm

I recognize that we have two meets going on...the hypothetical-non-Mary Cain edition of the WYC, and the actual WYC. Both are interesting to me, but lacking anything to contribute to the former, and given that this thread is titled "WYC," I thought I might post some results from Day 2 of the actual WYC, even though these are all on the IAAF web site for us to peruse. I realize this will probably cause this thread to sink like a stone, but who knows, might be something of interest here. Here are a few finals I found interesting:

M 100 (-0.4)
Youxue Mo (CHN) 10.35 PB/WYL
Ojie Edoburun (GBR) 10.35 PB
Reynier Mena (CUB) 10.37 PB
(Neither of the USA entrants made the final.)

W 100 (-0.8)
Ky Westbrook (USA) 11.33 PB
Ariana Washington (USA) 11.40
Angela Tenorio (ECU) 11.41
5.Irene Ekelund (SWE) 11.62

W 100h (0.0)
Yanique Thompson (JAM) 12.94 WYB
Dior Hall (USA) 13.01 PB
Mikiah Brisco (USA) 13.29 PB
4-6 also PB.

Octathlon, wSP, mLJ, wJT also done or near-done -- I'll leave those to others. :)
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby eman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:32 pm

norunner wrote:
eman wrote:My only question to you is, who else is doing the World Youth/World Championships double?
That's not a fair question though, because how many other youth athletes are good enough to even qualify for Moscow?

My point exactly!!
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby smc » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:36 pm

Master Po wrote:M 100 (-0.4)
Youxue Mo (CHN) 10.35 PB/WYL
Ojie Edoburun (GBR) 10.35 PB
Reynier Mena (CUB) 10.37 PB
(Neither of the USA entrants made the final.)


12.35 for Kenzo in the semi.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:47 pm

Master Po wrote:I recognize that we have two meets going on...the hypothetical-non-Mary Cain edition of the WYC, and the actual WYC. Both are interesting to me, but lacking anything to contribute to the former, and given that this thread is titled "WYC," I thought I might post some results from Day 2 of the actual WYC, even though these are all on the IAAF web site for us to peruse. I realize this will probably cause this thread to sink like a stone, but who knows, might be something of interest here. Here are a few finals I found interesting:

M 100 (-0.4)
Youxue Mo (CHN) 10.35 PB/WYL
Ojie Edoburun (GBR) 10.35 PB
Reynier Mena (CUB) 10.37 PB
(Neither of the USA entrants made the final.)

W 100 (-0.8)
Ky Westbrook (USA) 11.33 PB
Ariana Washington (USA) 11.40
Angela Tenorio (ECU) 11.41
5.Irene Ekelund (SWE) 11.62

W 100h (0.0)
Yanique Thompson (JAM) 12.94 WYB
Dior Hall (USA) 13.01 PB
Mikiah Brisco (USA) 13.29 PB
4-6 also PB.

Octathlon, wSP, mLJ, wJT also done or near-done -- I'll leave those to others. :)


Westbrook, Washington, and Hall are all returning as seniors next year!!
Is Mikiah Brisco the daughter of Valerie Brisco??

Also, watch for our Jamaican friends to start a war of words soon about a rivalry between Thompson and Hall!! :wink:
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby LopenUupunut » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:06 pm

Not-quite-16-year-old Artur Hämäläinen, son of Eduard, placed 5th in the octathlon. I hope he doesn't stop developing like his sister did :?
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