Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races


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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Brian » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:40 am

Tuariki wrote:Lolo is actually a good example.
Lolo has the X factor because she is perceived as "hot" in a sexual context, a la Anna Kurnikova, as well as being a top world class hurdler. Mary Cain is a very good runner but not yet top world class. Indications are that she is likely to be so in the very near future. However, she is unlikely to achieve the X factor status of Lolo because she does not have those other necessary physical attributes.


Actually...no.

With all respect, Mr. T. (and others),the term "X-Factor" doesn't mean "some unknown quality" such as attractiveness, etc. That term is "charisma."


The term X-Factor denotes an element--perhaps unknown or difficult to quantify--that may or may not create an unknown/unpredictable result or outcome.

Example:
On paper, the 1976 mens Olympic 1500 meters should be a showdown between 1500m. world record holder Filbert Bayi and Mile world record holder John Walker. Unless an X-factor enters the scenario (slow pace, one of the favorites fails to get through the heats, etc.).

In that example, the X-factor was the African boycott.

X-Factor means unknown result. Not unknown personal quality.


Military knows this term very well.
.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:49 am

I think his critics need to cut aaronk a little slack here. I may be naive ( although after 20 years in the Army and 50 years in the oil patch, I don't consider myself completely clueless). I have reviewed all the posts and I do not perceive/interpret a personal, unhealthy obsession with Cain by aaronk.
I see nothing sinister in citing Lolo as the first, contemporay example of X- factor popularity despite mixed success. Who else ya got?

I too have observed and admired the athletic talent and personal charm of Mary Cain and know it is possible to do so with absolutely no purient interest. How can you not love someone who does not over think the situation and spontaneosly admits she just "ran like an animal"?

I think the only difference is, I don't post about it.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Brian » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:52 am

[quote="26mi235That is not quite a complete representation. Lolo has more 'cited' tweets than possibly the entirety of USATF athletes. She is cleaver, quick, funny, etc. I am not sure that her looks is the primary deal for me. Yes, things like 'can't get a date, ..., virgin' are more notable given her appearance, but if she had 'ordinary track and field star' looks it would not be hugely different.

She has also been on the world stage for a long time, so the press knows her and knows that the public know her better than is typically the case. Further, her hard-luck crash at the 9th hurdle while clearly ahead for an Olympic Gold is also notable. As is her hard upbringing (clearly not unique, but also a story to tell in the up-front-and-personal style that is particularly emphasized at the Olympics.[/quote]


Yeah, that's why she's been featured on magazine covers in skimpy attire. Because of her backstory. Because the general public buying off the rack on impulse completely understands the given storylines of track & field competition. Because sex doesn't sell.

There's more to her, sure. But that's not why she's on covers.

Just Google "Lolo Jones magazine covers.
.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Master Po » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:55 am

lonewolf wrote:I think his critics need to cut aaronk a little slack here. I may be naive ( although after 20 years in the Army and 50 years in the oil patch, I don't consider myself completely clueless). I have reviewed all the posts and I do not perceive/interpret a personal, unhealthy obsession with Cain by aaronk.
I see nothing sinister in citing Lolo as the first, contemporay example of X- factor popularity despite mixed success. Who else ya got?

I too have observed and admired the athletic talent and personal charm of Mary Cain and know it is possible to do so with absolutely no purient interest. How can you not love someone who does not over think the situation and spontaneosly admits she just "ran like an animal"?

I think the only difference is, I don't post about it.


^I appreciate this post (as I always do, from lonewolf). Thank you.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby booond » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:17 pm

lonewolf wrote:I think the only difference is, I don't post about it.


I think the only difference is, I don't repeatedly post about it.

Fixed that for ya.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:18 pm

Ok, thanks, :)
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Brian wrote:Yeah, that's why she's been featured on magazine covers in skimpy attire. Because of her backstory. Because the general public buying off the rack on impulse completely understands the given storylines of track & field competition. Because sex doesn't sell.

There's more to her, sure. But that's not why she's on covers.

Just Google "Lolo Jones magazine covers.
.


Your argument fails because my argument is that it is not all sexy appeal; yours has to be modified, and when it is it loses it punch.

Have you counted tweets yet? That alone is enough counter example on my part to destroy that 'its (only) sex appeal.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby exdrake » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:35 pm

Probably just a typo, but "prurient."
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby batonless relay » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:41 pm

I like aaronk. He can be (ok, is) over the top, but his enthusiasm for Cain (and all of T&F...his knowledge is notable and broad) is infectious - at least for me. He's the kind of fan that makes our sport better and I would much rather sit next to him at a track meet than probably most of the other people on this board who would want to talk about "who's on drugs", "or why the [insert a country's athletes] will never be able to win/compete, etc. He reminds me of the time when T&F News wasn't on the web and just seeing the magazine - anywhere - got your heart a flutter. And, the "news" was probably a month old! No one else may have understood, and you thought them crazy for not getting it, but it didn't matter. That mag...was... "pornography". That's aaronk. When I think of aaronk, I think of the old jazz movie, 'Round Midnight. He would be Francis and Mary would be Dale. It's not prurient at all, it's just love.

Some of you would do better to re-find aaronk's "love". I have to imagine that some of you had it at an earlier time in your life. If not, your loss. Keep it coming aaronk.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby TN1965 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:29 pm

icerunner wrote:This was by no means meant to be a study of any kind. This was just done on a small sample of 17 yo athletes that top the all-time list of 800m. It would be interesting study for a specialist to do a complete analysis of all events male and female in T&F and try to make sense out of this. I just meant to bring up this list here to underline the fact that Child prodigies should be handled with utmost care. They will easily burn themself out or get hurt because of too much exercise load or whatever reason there is behind why they are topping at the age of 17. It would be interesting study to follow child prodigies in many countries in different disciplines and see who makes it successfully trough his(her) teen years to improve further to find out where the pits are and what to look out for when you have a very gifted individual in your hands(as a coach). Someone must have written a paper on this I am sure of that.


Here are my lay person's two cents.

Most runners who achieve fast times at an early age either physically mature earlier than others and/or had first rate training environment / coaching from an early age. Therefore, there was less room for improvement later on. If they had not pushed themselves hard at an early age, they would have had slower junior / youth time, and greater improvement later on, but their lifetime PB might not have been significantly different. (Of course, this excludes those who suffer from injury.)

But the flip side of this is that if they reach similar PBs anyway, it is better not to push too hard at a young age. A runner could handle more volume or intensity better as an adult than as a youth. This is how Peter Coe developed Seb and how Salazar developed Rupp. (When Salazar started coaching Rupp, Bob Kennedy told him "don't give him everything at once.") Given that history, I would be very surprised if Salazar did not have Cain's long term development as the top priority. Her improvement from now on will be smaller than other runners of her age, because she already has the advantage of great coaching and training environment. But I don't think she is "pushed too hard."
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby aaronk » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Speaking of early (athletic) developers going nowhere later.....

Ever hear of a brother-sister duo named Mike and Maryetta Boitano?
Around the mid-70's, they were, I believe, a couple of runners from the SF Bay Area who jumped into the 70's marathon craze.
And they were VERY good!!
Mike, I think, was setting age records all over the place.
He ran something like 2:54 at age 11 or 10.
Maryetta, his younger sister, ran something like 3:08 at age 9 or 10!!

You know what?
Neither of them can be found.....I don't believe......anywhere in the Top 1000 or so of the fastest American marathoners.
Haven't looked, but I've never seen their names on any HS lists, let alone college or American!!

Just two examples, one male, one female, of young and fast runners going nowhere!!

P.S. I know of them because both ran in the Avenue of the Giants marathon back when I was running that race.
And I used to get a magazine called Nor-Cal Running Review.....which had results from all the northern California road races.
The Boitano's ran MANY of those races!!
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Pego » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:54 pm

A 3-hour marathon at the age of 10 is totally nuts. Hell, any marathon at the age of 10 is totally nuts. Their parents should have been charged with child abuse :twisted: .
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Blues » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:05 pm

batonless relay wrote:I like aaronk. He can be (ok, is) over the top, but his enthusiasm for Cain (and all of T&F...his knowledge is notable and broad) is infectious - at least for me. He's the kind of fan that makes our sport better and I would much rather sit next to him at a track meet than probably most of the other people on this board who would want to talk about "who's on drugs", "or why the [insert a country's athletes] will never be able to win/compete, etc. He reminds me of the time when T&F News wasn't on the web and just seeing the magazine - anywhere - got your heart a flutter. And, the "news" was probably a month old! No one else may have understood, and you thought them crazy for not getting it, but it didn't matter. That mag...was... "pornography". That's aaronk. When I think of aaronk, I think of the old jazz movie, 'Round Midnight. He would be Francis and Mary would be Dale. It's not prurient at all, it's just love.

Some of you would do better to re-find aaronk's "love". I have to imagine that some of you had it at an earlier time in your life. If not, your loss. Keep it coming aaronk.


I disagree vehemently with the part about sitting next to him... I think it would be torture sitting next to aaronk at a meet if Mary Cain was competing. I have no doubt that he'd routinely block my view of the finish of various close races as he attempted to get a better view of Mary Cain changing her shoes and socks or standing in the waiting area drinking a sports drink... And most of my race photos would probably inadvertently be ruined by aaronk too as he inadvertently barged in front of my camera with sheer exhilaration (or blocked my lens with extremely animated pointing) after each Mary Cain sighting...:wink:
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Half Miler » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:10 pm

batonless relay wrote:I like aaronk. He can be (ok, is) over the top, but his enthusiasm for Cain (and all of T&F...his knowledge is notable and broad) is infectious - at least for me. He's the kind of fan that makes our sport better and I would much rather sit next to him at a track meet than probably most of the other people on this board who would want to talk about "who's on drugs", "or why the [insert a country's athletes] will never be able to win/compete, etc. He reminds me of the time when T&F News wasn't on the web and just seeing the magazine - anywhere - got your heart a flutter. And, the "news" was probably a month old! No one else may have understood, and you thought them crazy for not getting it, but it didn't matter. That mag...was... "pornography". That's aaronk. When I think of aaronk, I think of the old jazz movie, 'Round Midnight. He would be Francis and Mary would be Dale. It's not prurient at all, it's just love.

Some of you would do better to re-find aaronk's "love". I have to imagine that some of you had it at an earlier time in your life. If not, your loss. Keep it coming aaronk.


Thanks for saying what I've wanted to say for a while. Add me to the minority report of quiet aaronk defenders. I know this forum is probably less caustic than most, but it still troubles me how mean-spirited some folks can be.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Brian » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:20 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Brian wrote:Yeah, that's why she's been featured on magazine covers in skimpy attire. Because of her backstory. Because the general public buying off the rack on impulse completely understands the given storylines of track & field competition. Because sex doesn't sell.

There's more to her, sure. But that's not why she's on covers.

Just Google "Lolo Jones magazine covers.
.


Your argument fails because my argument is that it is not all sexy appeal; yours has to be modified, and when it is it loses it punch.

Have you counted tweets yet? That alone is enough counter example on my part to destroy that 'its (only) sex appeal.



You're arguing in a circle.

And what came first, tweets or her picture on magazine covers? Tweets maintain interest already generated by her physical appeal.

If a big part of her appearing on magazine covers isn't about her physical looks, then why are these covers always a full-body shot? Few--if any--head shots. Why? Because the good stuff--the stuff that sells the magazines--is located a bit further south, particularly, the exposed tight mid-section/abs, to which both sexes admire and sometimes aspire. The people who do these layouts know very well what moves the product, and it's Lolo Jones from head to mid-thigh. Only a small number of true fans of the sport (like those on this board) would appreciate anything less as a selling focus.

Sex also sells for female buyers; that's why women's magazines such as Cosmo, et. al, nearly always have semi-clothed females on their covers (nothing homosexual; females like to access, admire, and--perhaps--emulate).


I appreciate your loyalty to one of your T&F favorites (and a fellow Midwesterner), but to the average person, Lolo Jones is primarily "that hot-looking woman who runs track."

Hopefully Cain--at whatever stage of her career--will always be regarded as more than her looks by the general public.
.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby bushop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:38 pm

Half Miler wrote:I know this forum is probably less caustic than most, but it still troubles me how mean-spirited some folks can be.

Amen
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:47 pm

lonewolf wrote:
I think the only difference is, I don't post about it.


A fairly significant one at least in terms of volume.
Last edited by Dutra5 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Brian wrote:
I appreciate your loyalty to one of your T&F favorites (and a fellow Midwesterner), but to the average person, Lolo Jones is primarily "that hot-looking woman who runs track."

Hopefully Cain--at whatever stage of her career--will always be regarded as more than her looks by the general public.
.


I work in a small office featuring a couple of women and 8-10 men. The name Lolo Jones was never uttered from the lips of any of these people until the "virgin" comment came out. At that point she became all the rage and was the subject of discussion and a lot of bathroom humor through the Olympics.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Tuariki » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:43 pm

Brian wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Lolo is actually a good example.
Lolo has the X factor because she is perceived as "hot" in a sexual context, a la Anna Kurnikova, as well as being a top world class hurdler. Mary Cain is a very good runner but not yet top world class. Indications are that she is likely to be so in the very near future. However, she is unlikely to achieve the X factor status of Lolo because she does not have those other necessary physical attributes.


Actually...no.

With all respect, Mr. T. (and others),the term "X-Factor" doesn't mean "some unknown quality" such as attractiveness, etc. That term is "charisma."

The term X-Factor denotes an element--perhaps unknown or difficult to quantify--that may or may not create an unknown/unpredictable result or outcome.

Example:
On paper, the 1976 mens Olympic 1500 meters should be a showdown between 1500m. world record holder Filbert Bayi and Mile world record holder John Walker. Unless an X-factor enters the scenario (slow pace, one of the favorites fails to get through the heats, etc.).

In that example, the X-factor was the African boycott.

X-Factor means unknown result. Not unknown personal quality.

Military knows this term very well.


I think we are talking about two different meanings for X-factor.

I do not disagree with what you are saying in regards to Bayi/Walker example.

In your reference to the word "charisma" I do not disagree with that either. However, what is important is what does the work "charisma" mean to people when using it in reference to the X-factor? I believe that charisma is made of a number of different elements - attractiveness is one of them and that element is closely related to sex appeal.

Lolo Jones, for whatever the reason, good or bad, appears to have the X-factor for a lot of people. As another poster said, "sex sells", and I guess virginal sex sells even better.

Mary Cain certainly has it for Aaronk. And good for Aaronk, despite my continuous winding him up. Can't help it, Aaronk always bites. But I always enjoy his unbelievably well researched posts.

Jacko Gill has (had?) it for me. The X-factor elements for me in regards to Jacko were (1) he is a kiwi (2) he is a monstrously freakish talent (3) I was on the Auckland junior team with his Dad - a couple of years ago; and (4) I have been able to go and watch him throw until he relocated himself to Sweden a few months ago. Hopefully Jacko will get over that foot injury. He appears to be lifting some massive weights at the moment, so hopefully he still retains that speed and will do something special on 20 July when I understand he hopes to thrown next.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:01 pm

I don't think it is just Lolo's abs that get her lots of attention. She has an appealing back story, is attractive and a good athlete but I believe it is her wit, openess, self deprecating humor and killer smile that makes her a favorite with those who don't hate her.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Blues » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:18 pm

bushop wrote:
Half Miler wrote:I know this forum is probably less caustic than most, but it still troubles me how mean-spirited some folks can be.

Amen


aaronk's unbridled enthusiasm and appreciation for Mary Cain is well documented throughout this discussion group, and because of it there are a few of us who like to joke around and tease him about it at times, myself included. That kind of teasing, at least, isn't intended to be cruel or critical, so hopefully you aren't misinterpreting it as also being mean spirited. And it could be worse... I may jokingly post that I don't want to sit next to aaronk at a Mary Cain competition, but I'd gladly seal my head in a plastic bag attached to the exhaust pipe of my car, while the engine's running, to avoid having to sit next to jamboy at the Penn Relays. :wink:
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:11 am

Blues wrote:
bushop wrote:
Half Miler wrote:I know this forum is probably less caustic than most, but it still troubles me how mean-spirited some folks can be.

Amen


aaronk's unbridled enthusiasm and appreciation for Mary Cain is well documented throughout this discussion group, and because of it there are a few of us who like to joke around and tease him about it at times, myself included. That kind of teasing, at least, isn't intended to be cruel or critical, so hopefully you aren't misinterpreting it as also being mean spirited. And it could be worse... I may jokingly post that I don't want to sit next to aaronk at a Mary Cain competition, but I'd gladly seal my head in a plastic bag attached to the exhaust pipe of my car, while the engine's running, to avoid having to sit next to jamboy at the Penn Relays. :wink:


There may be 2, 3 at the most of regular/semiregular posters of the 10 years of this message board that I would want to avoid at the track meet and it is none of those posted above.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby vencio2 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:47 am

[quote="lonewolf"]I think his critics need to cut aaronk a little slack here. I may be naive ( although after 20 years in the Army and 50 years in the oil patch, I don't consider myself completely clueless). I have reviewed all the posts and I do not perceive/interpret a personal, unhealthy obsession with Cain by aaronk.
I see nothing sinister in citing Lolo as the first, contemporay example of X- factor popularity despite mixed success. Who else ya got?
[quote]

What about the post where he points out that when Cain set one particular record it was the first time she was wearing a two-piece suit??
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby aaronk » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:18 am

vencio2 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:I think his critics need to cut aaronk a little slack here. I may be naive ( although after 20 years in the Army and 50 years in the oil patch, I don't consider myself completely clueless). I have reviewed all the posts and I do not perceive/interpret a personal, unhealthy obsession with Cain by aaronk.
I see nothing sinister in citing Lolo as the first, contemporay example of X- factor popularity despite mixed success. Who else ya got?

What about the post where he points out that when Cain set one particular record it was the first time she was wearing a two-piece suit??


:roll:
Get a life!!

As for your.....comment......I noticed it because, when a PERSON wears the same exact thing EVERY time.....in Cain's case, an all-black solid suit outfit......and then one day, wears something entirely different......one tends to take notice!!

It would be like if, one day, Alysia Montano appeared on the track withOUT a flower in her hair!!

BTW, as to that flower, I LOVED it when Montano took her flower out, and pinned it on Cain....at the Pre meet!! :D
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby vencio2 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:26 am

Fine. The point is, why the need to share every itty bitty Mary Cain related thought that you have? Personally, if you fancy her I'd much rather you just said it, then we could all just move on. Middle aged gay men were salivating over Tom Daley when he was much younger than Cain.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby aaronk » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:48 am

vencio2 wrote:Fine. The point is, why the need to share every itty bitty Mary Cain related thought that you have? Personally, if you fancy her I'd much rather you just said it, then we could all just move on. Middle aged gay men were salivating over Tom Daley when he was much younger than Cain.


Who is Tom Daley??

I'm not gay---100% hetero-----and definitely not middle-aged (just turned 69).....but just curious!

And to settle your mind and heart a bit, I've NEVER "fancied" Mary Cain!
Again, my interest in her is ATHLETIC-----talent and potential.
But once I follow a person, I notice EVERYTHING about that person.
With Cain, I notice her VERY "teenage" (nee "childlike") behavior!
I'm interested in the whole person, into what MAKES that person who he/she is!!

As for ever "fancying" Cain......NEVER, not for even one second!!

A secret: There ARE one or two female T&F athletes I DO notice their attractiveness!
Won't say who, but they are:

1. NOT Mary Cain
2. OLDER than Cain
3. NOT Lolo Jones!!

Kill me, I'm human!! :wink:
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby batonless relay » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:52 am

vencio2 wrote:What about the post where he points out that when Cain set one particular record it was the first time she was wearing a two-piece suit??

If Christophe Lemaitre ran in an Asics uniform other than Black, I would notice. I notice when Asafa Powell runs with his shirt out versus a bodysuit. Bolt no longer seems to wear bodysuits; I think the last time I saw him in one was 2008. There are people who know how many times Lebron James has played without a headband and still other who might be able to tell you exacctly how many practice swings a player might have before stepping into the batter's box. Noticing that Cain wore a two-piece uniform really isn't that big of a deal.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Blues » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:21 am

Pego wrote:
Blues wrote:
bushop wrote:
Half Miler wrote:I know this forum is probably less caustic than most, but it still troubles me how mean-spirited some folks can be.

Amen


aaronk's unbridled enthusiasm and appreciation for Mary Cain is well documented throughout this discussion group, and because of it there are a few of us who like to joke around and tease him about it at times, myself included. That kind of teasing, at least, isn't intended to be cruel or critical, so hopefully you aren't misinterpreting it as also being mean spirited. And it could be worse... I may jokingly post that I don't want to sit next to aaronk at a Mary Cain competition, but I'd gladly seal my head in a plastic bag attached to the exhaust pipe of my car, while the engine's running, to avoid having to sit next to jamboy at the Penn Relays. :wink:


There may be 2, 3 at the most of regular/semiregular posters of the 10 years of this message board that I would want to avoid at the track meet and it is none of those posted above.


Don't get me wrong. I have no dislike or disrespect for aaron in any way, and if Mary Cain isn't competing I'd gladly sit next to him and would insist that he allow me to buy him a hotdog and a soda... And to be honest, I'd feel privileged to sit next to him at any meet as long as he doesn't smell bad...(smile). I'd sit next to jamboy at meets that aren't Penn too... (Since I've been smacked in the face, eye, head, etc. by Jamaican flags being waved overzealously at Penn quite a few times in the past, I have no reason to believe that jamboy's enthusiasm wouldn't pose a severe health hazard to those sitting in his immediate vicinity. And then there's the issue of the taunting and gloating after each Jamaican win...) :wink:
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:06 am

OK, it is my turn; I am fine with Aaron, it is his implementation of his comments that is most problematic. I would like it if he would organize his thoughts such that they had structure so I could tell the important stuff from the parts that support the main idea, etc. Too often I have to wade through the text without enough clues and as a result I skim most of his posts. Yes, I know, "look who is talking..."[and critiquing writing is frowned on, but his posts would be more valuable to me and probably others with some 'tweaks' in style.]

While Mary Cain is a big focus, so are all of the records. Some of the detail I do not bother with but the writing of those posts is more organized and easier to read and grasp.
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Re: Confusion about Mary Cain's next DL races

Postby Half Miler » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:39 am

vencio2 wrote:Personally, if you fancy her I'd much rather you just said it, then we could all just move on. Middle aged gay men were salivating over Tom Daley when he was much younger than Cain.


But, see, he HAS said that he does not 'fancy' her, on multiple occasions, and YOU'RE not moving on.
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