Lausanne DL- M100m


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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 18.99s » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:58 am

jamboy wrote:Don't worry, he will. He wants a gold medal and he will get it if he runs. He won't anchor however. Anchor duties have been reserved for Asafa.

Do you mean reserved for Bolt?
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby athlete101 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:01 pm

26mi235 wrote:10.16 basic for the two Jamaicans is not great for April, much less a July DL meet. Even the time by Gay and Powell are merely 9.90 and 10.00 basic. Collins got his NR the easy way...


What a pathetic comment to make about Kim Collins
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby rainy.here » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:02 pm

DCSIGMA wrote:I really don't get asafa Powell....can somebody xplain it to me...he didn't look too great at nationals but bounces back real quick to run fast again...


Powell has been doing this most of his career. He's struggled to hit his peak at the right time, and very regularly runs SBs in the 2-3 weeks after major events. It's often due to training setbacks from injury, but he's a much better 1-round runner than a multi-round runner.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby toyracer » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:07 pm

Let's be clear;

By JAAA rule the following four are automatically in the relay pool.

Usain Bolt.
Kemar Bailey-Cole
Nickel Ashmeade
Nesta Carter

With a Champions Exemption Yohan Blake is automatically in the pool for selection despite not competing at the national championships. According to the JAAA this is an IAAF rule.

That leaves one spot in the pool if Blake goes to Moscow. By recent tradition the two persons that fill this spot are the 5th and 6th place finishers in the 100m:

Jason Livermore
Oshane Bailey

Asafa Powell is on the outside looking in. Finishing seventh puts him in a bad spot, which is why he literally has to run his way into consideration. He is fortunate that there is a clause that allows selection rather than qualification.

From the JAAA:

SELECTION CRITERIA

1. Athletes must compete in the National Championships unless an exemption has been granted by the JAAA.

2. Athletes placing in the first four positions in the 100M & 400M will be named to the relay pool. The remaining members of the relay pool will be selected by the JAAA selection committee.
As mandated by the IAAF, athletes who are selected to run individual 100M/400M are automatic members of the relay pool. It is a condition for selection that the athletes selected for the relay pool must be available when required for relay practice. Athletes who fail to make themselves available may not be allowed to participate in the competition.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby shivfan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:12 pm

2. Athletes placing in the first four positions in the 100M & 400M will be named to the relay pool. The remaining members of the relay pool will be selected by the JAAA selection committee.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby TeWaio » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:13 pm

eldanielfire wrote:
18.99s wrote:Kim Collins 4th in 9.97 PB and NR at 37 years old!



He is amazing! This is literally my favourite result of the year :)


Me too! I f--king love Kim Collins! And him firing a shot at his national federation (in his typical oh-so-gentlemanly manner) in the interview afterwards was great!
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby ATK » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:13 pm

That rule by JAAA basically says after the first 4, they can pick whoever they want to run the relay as long as they competed at trials in some form.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 18.99s » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:18 pm

toyracer wrote:Let's be clear;

By JAAA rule the following four are automatically in the relay pool.

Usain Bolt.
Kemar Bailey-Cole
Nickel Ashmeade
Nesta Carter

With a Champions Exemption Yohan Blake is automatically in the pool for selection despite not competing at the national championships. According to the JAAA this is an IAAF rule.

That leaves one spot in the pool if Blake goes to Moscow. By recent tradition the two persons that fill this spot are the 5th and 6th place finishers in the 100m:

Jason Livermore
Oshane Bailey


It makes sense to name AP and OB to the list of 6 relay runners they'll submit to the IAAF. Livermore is in the individual 200m, so they can still choose him for the relay even if he isn't on the list of 6.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby toyracer » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:19 pm

ATK wrote:That rule by JAAA basically says after the first 4, they can pick whoever they want to run the relay as long as they competed at trials in some form.


Basically, but this is important:

"As mandated by the IAAF, athletes who are selected to run individual 100M/400M are automatic members of the relay pool"

If Yohan Blake is fit and runs in Moscow that means he runs the individual 100m which places him in the pool, which already has four persons. Only six are allowed to be named for the pool. So right now Asafa is running to displace Livermore and Bailey.

If Blake is declared unfit and not going to Moscow two things happen. The first is that Bolt's DL exemption comes into play and Nesta Carter can be selected for the individual 100m, so Jamaica enters four men in the event anyway. The second is that there will be two spots in the relay pool, making it easier for the selectors to name Asafa.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby ATK » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:25 pm

toyracer wrote:
ATK wrote:That rule by JAAA basically says after the first 4, they can pick whoever they want to run the relay as long as they competed at trials in some form.


Basically, but this is important:

"As mandated by the IAAF, athletes who are selected to run individual 100M/400M are automatic members of the relay pool"

If Yohan Blake is fit and runs in Moscow that means he runs the individual 100m which places him in the pool, which already has four persons. Only six are allowed to be named for the pool. So right now Asafa is running to displace Livermore and Bailey.

If Blake is declared unfit and not going to Moscow two things happen. The first is that Bolt's DL exemption comes into play and Nesta Carter can be selected for the individual 100m, so Jamaica enters four men in the event anyway. The second is that there will be two spots in the relay pool, making it easier for the selectors to name Asafa.

What your also forgetting is that the IAAF allows anyone who is already at champs to run the relay. (shot putter, pole vaulter etc.) Livermore us already in the 200 so he will be in Moscow.

If Powell runs another race faster than Oshane this month, he will be in Moscow.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby betterthanb4 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:54 pm

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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:11 pm

athlete101 wrote:
26mi235 wrote:10.16 basic for the two Jamaicans is not great for April, much less a July DL meet. Even the time by Gay and Powell are merely 9.90 and 10.00 basic. Collins got his NR the easy way...


What a pathetic comment to make about Kim Collins


I do not think that it fits tht meaning of pathetic. He handily beat members of Jamaica's sprint team, so it is rather good on that score. I agree he has covered a great span with quality performance. I think that he would like to get the record with his best race, not something made a bit easy with a 2.0 wind. However, Gay ran 'only' 9.79; being only 0.18 behind one of this season's top-2 is a good sign as well. Since he competes well, I think he can make the finals, although the rounds and heat placement can make it a bit of a crapshoot for all but the top 4 or so.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby justrunfast » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:25 pm

26mi235 wrote:
athlete101 wrote:
26mi235 wrote:10.16 basic for the two Jamaicans is not great for April, much less a July DL meet. Even the time by Gay and Powell are merely 9.90 and 10.00 basic. Collins got his NR the easy way...


What a pathetic comment to make about Kim Collins


I do not think that it fits tht meaning of pathetic. He handily beat members of Jamaica's sprint team, so it is rather good on that score. I agree he has covered a great span with quality performance. I think that he would like to get the record with his best race, not something made a bit easy with a 2.0 wind. However, Gay ran 'only' 9.79; being only 0.18 behind one of this season's top-2 is a good sign as well. Since he competes well, I think he can make the finals, although the rounds and heat placement can make it a bit of a crapshoot for all but the top 4 or so.


"9.97 the easy way" :lol: the race Collins ran suggests he could run another pb by the end of the year maybe a 9.95?

To say it was easy because of the 2.0 wind is a bit pathetic the guy has ran well this year and from his interview seems to be training effectively at 37 years old. Maybe that's what made it "easy"
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Weights&Shoes » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:50 pm

I thought Kim Collins is done competing at major championships for his country after the mess in London last year?
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby don1 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:56 pm

18.99s wrote:
toyracer wrote:Let's be clear;

By JAAA rule the following four are automatically in the relay pool.

Usain Bolt.
Kemar Bailey-Cole
Nickel Ashmeade
Nesta Carter

With a Champions Exemption Yohan Blake is automatically in the pool for selection despite not competing at the national championships. According to the JAAA this is an IAAF rule.

That leaves one spot in the pool if Blake goes to Moscow. By recent tradition the two persons that fill this spot are the 5th and 6th place finishers in the 100m:

Jason Livermore
Oshane Bailey


It makes sense to name AP and OB to the list of 6 relay runners they'll submit to the IAAF. Livermore is in the individual 200m, so they can still choose him for the relay even if he isn't on the list of 6.


Yes. Asafa's inclusion is pretty straightforward because of Livermore qualifying for the 200m. However, if Blake is fit enough to run they will have to choose between Asafa and Bailey. Asafa should still get the nod in my opinion.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby jamboy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:55 pm

18.99s wrote:
jamboy wrote:Don't worry, he will. He wants a gold medal and he will get it if he runs. He won't anchor however. Anchor duties have been reserved for Asafa.

Do you mean reserved for Bolt?


Bolt. Yes.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby jamboy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:58 pm

Asafa's 9.88 today is his 81st sub 10.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Fielding Melish » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Not only did Powell extend his world record for lifetime sub-10.00s (81) he also did so for lifetime sub-9.90s (38).

Gay closing in on lifetime sub-9.80s:

10 - Bolt
9 - Gay
8 - Powell

(all numbers above wind-legal only).
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Vielleicht » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:38 pm

rfv wrote:Kim Collins could have gone much faster.
His reaction time was just too slow, 0.216.

Strangely this has been the case in his last races - considering he's known as a blistering starter, well... :roll:
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby toyracer » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:24 pm

ATK wrote:
toyracer wrote:
ATK wrote:That rule by JAAA basically says after the first 4, they can pick whoever they want to run the relay as long as they competed at trials in some form.


Basically, but this is important:

"As mandated by the IAAF, athletes who are selected to run individual 100M/400M are automatic members of the relay pool"

If Yohan Blake is fit and runs in Moscow that means he runs the individual 100m which places him in the pool, which already has four persons. Only six are allowed to be named for the pool. So right now Asafa is running to displace Livermore and Bailey.

If Blake is declared unfit and not going to Moscow two things happen. The first is that Bolt's DL exemption comes into play and Nesta Carter can be selected for the individual 100m, so Jamaica enters four men in the event anyway. The second is that there will be two spots in the relay pool, making it easier for the selectors to name Asafa.

What your also forgetting is that the IAAF allows anyone who is already at champs to run the relay. (shot putter, pole vaulter etc.) Livermore us already in the 200 so he will be in Moscow.

If Powell runs another race faster than Oshane this month, he will be in Moscow.


I think you misunderstood my point. I'm only addressing the relay pool, not addressing being named to the overall Jamaican team.

When I said "displace Livermore and Bailey" I meant displace them out of the one available spot in the pool.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Fortius19 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:53 pm

ATK wrote:This was a long time coming for Kim Collins. After what feels like 50+ 10.0x races over the past 2-3 years, he finally breaks 10, with a NR. Highlight of the race/meet.


^^^^ YES

I have been really hoping he would get sub-10 again! A PR is a huge bonus!
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Fortius19 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:56 pm

jamboy wrote:Asafa's 9.88 today is his 81st sub 10.


Didn't Asafa recently run in a meet and run 9.97 on a false start that didn't count and then run the 'real' race again in 10.0x?

Are people counting this 'false start' sub-10? I would think so. Especially as it may get dicey trying to get to 100 (injuries, age, etc.).
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 18.99s » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:57 am

Fortius19 wrote:
jamboy wrote:Asafa's 9.88 today is his 81st sub 10.


Didn't Asafa recently run in a meet and run 9.97 on a false start that didn't count and then run the 'real' race again in 10.0x?

Are people counting this 'false start' sub-10? I would think so. Especially as it may get dicey trying to get to 100 (injuries, age, etc.).


Was there a wind reading for that 9.97? And was the 9.97 based on the photo finish, or was that just the stadium clock (which may be off by a few hundredths of a second)? If there's no wind reading or the 9.97 was only the stadium clock, it shouldn't be counted.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:02 am

justrunfast wrote:To say it was easy because of the 2.0 wind is a bit pathetic ...


I simply do not understand why is it pathetic to say that running 9.97/2.0 is easier than 9.97/0.0. It is a statement of fact that is probably acceptable to everyone here, especially if I were to change the latter to 9.97/-1.0.

He could have had an easier time breaking the NR if he tried a lot of races in Mexico City but did not make a lot of attempts to do that. I do not think that he would really want the NR with the (a) attached and 2.0 gives about the same assistance as a mile+ in elevation. I think he would have liked to run 9.97 with a little less aiding wind.


On a different issue, here Ashmeade is ahead of Gay early and even well in to the race, yet winds up a quarter second behind. Yet, I think of Ashmeade as a better 200 runner and the fade at the end (I think he lost ground to AP in the second half as well) is surprising. I suppose that when you get left like that after being in it that you might let up or tie up at the end, so that you are better than that 10.05/2.0 looks on paper.
Last edited by 26mi235 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby ATK » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:24 am

26mi235 wrote:
justrunfast wrote:To say it was easy because of the 2.0 wind is a bit pathetic ...


I simply do not understand why is it pathetic to say that running 9.97/2.0 is easier than 9.97/0.0. It is a statement of fact that is probably acceptable to everyone here, especially if I were to change the latter to 9.97/-1.0.

He could have had an easier time breaking the NR if he tried a lot of races in Mexico City but did not make a lot of attempts to do that. I do not think that he would really want the NR with the (a) attached and 2.0 gives about the same assistance as a mile+ in elevation. I think he would have liked to run 9.97 with a little less aiding wind.

Pathetic is kind of out of line. But it seems unfair to say it was easy. He didn't choose for the wind to be exactly 2.0 like he could have chosen to run a race in Mexico city.

Also 2.0 is legal for a reason and 2.1 is not. If the wind was 1.9 would it still have been easy? What is the cut off wind when it's not an easy way to hey a record?
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby cladthin » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:28 am

While the tailwind was obviously helpful, the temperature at race time was not-around 65-66 degrees F.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:18 am

cladthin wrote:While the tailwind was obviously helpful, the temperature at race time was not-around 65-66 degrees F.


Yes, I will take that as a mitigating factor, sort of like taking the wind down to 1.2. Using Gay as a reference, he probably got a better start at the Trials and ran slightly faster with less wind assistance, and without the two rounds before. On the other hand, almost all other marks by Americans are noticeably slower than at the Trials. Oliver and Richardson being exceptions, with Duncan being exhibit A. However, Duncan is probably in the middle of hard training to get back from her double round of championships (triple if you add in the SECs, and then add Regionals) and with multiple duties at the NCAA level.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby JRM » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:39 pm

26mi235 wrote:
cladthin wrote:While the tailwind was obviously helpful, the temperature at race time was not-around 65-66 degrees F.


Yes, I will take that as a mitigating factor, sort of like taking the wind down to 1.2.



The 20C range between 15-35C probably accounts for 0.02s, so I think the "equivalent" wind would be more like 1.6m/s.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:03 pm

Blah blah temperature, blah blah wind, blah blah altitude.
Collins ran a legitimate 9.97 - end of story. And to belittle his NR as doing it the easy way was pathetic. But then again not unexpected from that poster who seems to always want to find a reason to belittle someone's performance.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby deroki » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:23 pm

JRM wrote:
The 20C range between 15-35C probably accounts for 0.02s, so I think the "equivalent" wind would be more like 1.6m/s.



Why 0.02? I'd guess much more than that.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby 18.99s » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:09 am

toyracer wrote:I think you misunderstood my point. I'm only addressing the relay pool, not addressing being named to the overall Jamaican team.

When I said "displace Livermore and Bailey" I meant displace them out of the one available spot in the pool.


However, anybody in any individual event is automatically eligible for relays, so it makes no sense to include Livermore in the list of 6 names submitted to the IAAF, even if they ultimately intend to use Livermore on the relay. So at this point it's just a matter of whether Asafa replaces Oshane Bailey on that list of 6 (if Blake competes), or whether both Asafa and Bailey are on the list (which is the logical result if Blake doesn't compete).
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby justrunfast » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:47 am

26mi235 wrote:
justrunfast wrote:To say it was easy because of the 2.0 wind is a bit pathetic ...


I simply do not understand why is it pathetic to say that running 9.97/2.0 is easier than 9.97/0.0. It is a statement of fact that is probably acceptable to everyone here, especially if I were to change the latter to 9.97/-1.0.

He could have had an easier time breaking the NR if he tried a lot of races in Mexico City but did not make a lot of attempts to do that. I do not think that he would really want the NR with the (a) attached and 2.0 gives about the same assistance as a mile+ in elevation. I think he would have liked to run 9.97 with a little less aiding wind.


On a different issue, here Ashmeade is ahead of Gay early and even well in to the race, yet winds up a quarter second behind. Yet, I think of Ashmeade as a better 200 runner and the fade at the end (I think he lost ground to AP in the second half as well) is surprising. I suppose that when you get left like that after being in it that you might let up or tie up at the end, so that you are better than that 10.05/2.0 looks on paper.


Nope the only people who think like this are people on forums. As long as the wind is 2.0 or less athletes don't care if running 9.97 looks better with less following wind. Of course it looks better but the clock doesn't lie and everyone knows the legal limit.

I no most athletes will look back on races and see how they can execute better or improve certain parts of their race to run quicker times but never have I seen an athlete especially a sprinter who has run under the legal limit try to work out what the wind COULD be taking into factors like temperature etc so many things to think about and you think an athlete is going to bother with external things they cannot change no way!

The thing I don't understand about your post is your saying you "assume" kim Collins would have like to run a NR with less wind something he has no control over what is he meant to do? Is he gonna say scratch that time and say I want to do it when there is less wind.....even though he can't control it?

People forget diamond league is the top circuit competition in the athletics world not many athletes can pick and choose which diamond races they want to do
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:31 am

I would take a 9.56 with +2.0 wind over a 9.57 with a -1.0 wind any day because while both times would be a world record, 9.56 is faster, something 26mi365 seems to have trouble appreciating. The great unwashed public doesn't care about the inanities of making time adjustments for altitude, wind, temperature.

What about track type? Perhaps we should give Peter Snell a 1 second credit (at least) for a grass track.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby toyracer » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:11 pm

18.99s wrote:
toyracer wrote:I think you misunderstood my point. I'm only addressing the relay pool, not addressing being named to the overall Jamaican team.

When I said "displace Livermore and Bailey" I meant displace them out of the one available spot in the pool.


However, anybody in any individual event is automatically eligible for relays, so it makes no sense to include Livermore in the list of 6 names submitted to the IAAF, even if they ultimately intend to use Livermore on the relay. So at this point it's just a matter of whether Asafa replaces Oshane Bailey on that list of 6 (if Blake competes), or whether both Asafa and Bailey are on the list (which is the logical result if Blake doesn't compete).


Actually, "if they ultimately intend to use Livermore on the relay" then he would HAVE to be named as one of the six in the pool. Yes, technically anyone in an individual event is eligible for selection into the pool but only the six persons actually declared as being in the relay pool can run in the relay.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Blues » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:31 pm

toyracer wrote:
18.99s wrote:
toyracer wrote:I think you misunderstood my point. I'm only addressing the relay pool, not addressing being named to the overall Jamaican team.

When I said "displace Livermore and Bailey" I meant displace them out of the one available spot in the pool.


However, anybody in any individual event is automatically eligible for relays, so it makes no sense to include Livermore in the list of 6 names submitted to the IAAF, even if they ultimately intend to use Livermore on the relay. So at this point it's just a matter of whether Asafa replaces Oshane Bailey on that list of 6 (if Blake competes), or whether both Asafa and Bailey are on the list (which is the logical result if Blake doesn't compete).


Actually, "if they ultimately intend to use Livermore on the relay" then he would HAVE to be named as one of the six in the pool. Yes, technically anyone in an individual event is eligible for selection into the pool but only the six persons actually declared as being in the relay pool can run in the relay.


Is that the JAAA rule? I don't think it's the IAAF rule. As far as the IAAF is concerned, anybody can run who's on the team. The actual 4 runners in a particular event have to be submitted at least an hour before the first call for the event, and once the heat is run, only 2 additional athletes are eligible to run in the final. But those athletes don't necessarily have to come from the relay pools. As an example, in the 2011 Daegu 4x4 final, neither the USA 2nd leg (Bershawn Jackson) nor 3rd leg (Angelo Taylor) was among the 6 athletes who were submitted as the USA 4x4 relay pool. Both were on the team for the 400h though.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby tandfman » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:40 pm

That is correct and therefore apart from any internal Jamaican Federation rule that might dictate otherwise, 18.99s is correct in saying that it would make no sense for them to include Livermore in the relay pool. I doubt that the Federation would have such a rule--it would limit the team's flexibility in the relays at the World Championships.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby ATK » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:15 pm

That's what I had thought before....Livermore is already on the team, so Powell's chances of being on the relay/pool increase.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:18 pm

If JAAA want to win the relay then they will include Asafa,if they are allowed to. As it appears from this discussion that Asafa can be picked then it appear that logic has it the JAAA will include him.
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby ATK » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:49 pm

Random question that hopefully gh can answer.
After the Lausanne DL all of the Universal sports races are posted on the front page (now all the Paris races are up as well). So why was there a separate article in the "Today's Best Reading" section with a CBSSports version of the video? Just curious on knowing why that video was put up as an article? (video is also shorter and not even in English which is more confusing, to me at least)
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Re: Lausanne DL- M100m

Postby DentyCracker » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:46 pm

"basic" gives a better idea of what the athletes would have done against each other. It is an approximation of course. It is somewhat helpful to us sprint geeks if you don't like it just ignore the posts on it and let us enjoy ourselves. With that out of the way, I would only pick Asafa if he gets to 9.80 "basic" by London's 100m which should have Bolt in it. I am for the best team to be picked. My reasoning is that he has to be running faster than everybody else "basic" except Bolt to justify bringing him in. We also have to assume that KBC, Ashmeade and Carter will be well tapered and ready to run faster at the time of the WC. My Moscow 4x100m team for Jamaica iff AP is ready is Carter to Ashmeade to Bolt to Powell. Sub 37 for sure, Wr maybe with great handoffs. Just about enough to geat the US without Ryan Bailey
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