Chase the A and B status


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Chase the A and B status

Postby wineturtle » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:03 am

Do we have a list posted of who needs what?
Thanks
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby wineturtle » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:52 am

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250797 ... mpionships


color coded who has what chart from flotrack
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:10 pm

I am one of those fans who loves the marks-chasing window. It's an event unto itself.
That said, can someone simplify the charts above to show who can chase what marks, event-by-event?
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby mcgato » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:05 pm

Probably made some mistakes, so let me know if I missed anything. I divided it by what I deem to be legitimate chasers and those technically chasing but probably won't happen. I'll update as time goes on, if people want that.

Chasers
w3000SC: Kipp (3rd) needs A or Higginson (2nd) to get A; Cheever (4th) has A
w10000: Hasay (2nd) gets B; Erdmann (3rd) needs A; Hastings (4th) has A
mTJ: Grinnell (3rd), or Carter (4th) need an A, or a B and a Craddock (1st) A; Claye (2nd) got A

Others (technically a chase is on, but I don't see it happening)
w5000: Simpson (1st) likely skipping 5, so probably no chase
wHJ: Pressley (3rd) needa A or McPherson (2nd) A
wTJ: top 4 of Geubelle, Smith, Smock, Ufodiama need a B otherwise nobody goes
wJT: Ince (2nd), Patterson (3rd) or Hamilton (4th) need an A, or a B and a Borman (1st) A
mLJ: Henderson (2nd), R. Taylor (3rd), or Hartfield (4th) need an A, or a B and a Kitchens (1st) A. Dendy (5th) has an A.
mHJ: Blair or Black need a B (note: Blair won administrative jumpoff for 3rd place tie, so he is first in line). Moffatt (8th) has a B.
mDT: top 4 of Brooks, Winger, Plummer, and Malone need a B or nobody goes
mHT: Cralle (2nd), Loftin (3rd), and Freeman (4th) need an A, or a B and a Kruger (1st) A
mJT: Furey (3rd) or Krammes (4th) need an A, or a B and a Humphreys (2nd) A

Chase over:
m1500: Manzano (2nd) and Lomong (3rd) get A
w1500: McGee (3rd) gets B
m5000: Hill (3rd) gets A

Initial update: June 25
Update June 25: Whitt in mPV has A, so there is no chase there. Details below.
Update June 25: Missed mHJ, so it is added to the kinda chase. Details below.
Update July 6: m1500 chase over with Manzano and Lomong getting an A to join Centro (B) on team
Update July 9: Added mTJ info, and added other info to match the TFN update on front page
Update July 13: w1500 and m5000 chase ends, and wHJ McPherson got an A
Update July 15: Update w10000
Update July 16: Cleaned up a few events
Last edited by mcgato on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:42 pm

Marlow wrote:I am one of those fans who loves the marks-chasing window. It's an event unto itself.


You would! They are time trials, with little to do with racing.
OTOH, I like those, too, as well as all kinds of races.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby unclezadok » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:50 pm

I'd like to see Manzano, Lomong, and Claye make the team, for obvious reasons, otherwise don't care.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:43 pm

The M 1500 perhaps could use some clarification; I'll try.
As of now, Centrowitz has a B, Manzano nothing, Lomong a B and Matt Elliot nothing.

I think:
Centrowitz is on the team, as he won the race and has a B already. I don't think he can be bumped.

Manzano will be on the team if he gets an A, or if Centrowitz gets and A and Manzano gets a B.

Lomong will be on the team if he gets an A, or if Centrowitz gets an A and Manzano gets nothing or an A.

Elliot can make the team if Centrowitz and Lomong get A's, Manzano gets nothing and he gets a B, or if he gets an A and two of those ahead of him end up with only B standards.

This is worse than NFL playoff scenarios! >:-)

Centrowitz, Manzano and Lomong will probably all get A standards, even though Centrowitz doesn't need to chase. The next DL 1500 is in Paris, July 6, but there are also other opportunities.

Centrowitz has done better in championship-type racing than paced DL-type races, so that's something he could work on.

Lomong hasn't run fast 1500s since 2011, but ran two one-mile races this year (one indoors) that were equivalent to sub-3:35.

Manzano's fastest 1500s, too, are back in the 09-11 period, but he did break 3:35 three times last year.

Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:10 pm

mcgato wrote:....
mPV: Whitt (3rd with B) or Coover (4th) need an A, or a B with an A from Scott (2nd)...


Whitt has an A.

you didn't include mHJ, but perhaps as a lost-cause decisision. Blair and Black are chasing (a B will do; will Blair having precdence after winning administrative jumpoff in DSM)
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby mcgato » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:33 pm

I'll update mPV per gh input. Just can't trust those at flotrack. So:
mPV: Whitt (3rd with B) or Coover (4th) need an A, or a B with an A from Scott (2nd)
gets eliminated due to Whitt actually having an A. So top 3 go.

As for mHJ, I did miss that.
mHJ: Blair or Black need a B (note: Blair won administrative jumpoff, so he is first in line)
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:34 pm

mcgato wrote: I'll update as time goes on, if people want that.

Well, I'm a people and I want!
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby BCBaroo » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:05 pm

Alan Shank wrote:
Marlow wrote:I am one of those fans who loves the marks-chasing window. It's an event unto itself.


You would! They are time trials, with little to do with racing.
OTOH, I like those, too, as well as all kinds of races.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


If this was facebook, I'd push the like button.
Bring on the chase(s)!
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tm71 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:30 pm

Already got a migraine from this.
Simply only Centro in recent memory got a mark via chasing and got a medal in the 1500 in osaka. Manzano much like Centro is more of a championship runner than a DL front of the pack chasing that rabbit type. I am very disappointed in will claye, I thought he would gotten the A somewhere by now. I mean he is a silver medalist last year and a bronze the year before and was jumping 58 ft last year but this year is two feet short of that. I don't know why he is having an off year. The rest simply don't have a chance to contend in Moscow even if they get the A standard.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:08 pm

If the IAAF did not have their head up there ... then more would have the A; a 3:51 mile is about 3:33' there is no reason to not accept a converted mark other than to snub the US.
Last edited by 26mi235 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:14 pm

26mi235 wrote:If the IAAF did not have the head up there ... then more would have the A; a 3:51 mile is about 3:33' there is no reason to not accept a converted mark other than to snub the US,


or to provide incentive to run the 1500, the Olympic and WC event, and disincentive to put on high-level races at an anachronistic distance.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:25 pm

The IAAF has been happy to have dollars over the years; the mile is the historic, premier distance and there is nothing to show that this is very good correspondence.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby donley2 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:57 pm

I am not sure this is what people are looking for, but for instance (and there may be others) in the mLJ Dendy has the A already so would very likely be added if we don't get two other A's.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby DrJay » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Alan Shank wrote:This is worse than NFL playoff scenarios! >:-)
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


Hilarious, as I was thinking of posting the exact same thing as I was reading the line right above that!
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 18.99s » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:15 am

Alan Shank wrote:The M 1500 perhaps could use some clarification; I'll try.
As of now, Centrowitz has a B, Manzano nothing, Lomong a B and Matt Elliot nothing.


Do any of the 5th place or below guys have the A standard? If yes, that means one of them could be on the team if only one of the top 4 get the A standard, correct? And two of them would be on the team if none of the top 4 gets the A standard?

I hate how they've squeezed down the eligibility period. The window should start early enough to include the previous year's World or Olympic games, or at least the medalists from the previous year should be treated as having the A standard.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby az2004 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:35 am

does anyone know when McGee or hasey attepts to qual will occur
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:00 am

Hasay et al on17th if I recall correctly.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Pego » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:10 am

18.99s wrote:I hate how they've squeezed down the eligibility period. The window should start early enough to include the previous year's World or Olympic games, or at least the medalists from the previous year should be treated as having the A standard.


Agreed.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:16 am

In wJT, Ince, Patterson or Hamilton need an A to go (or a B for one of them if Borrman gets an A).
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby exdrake » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:28 am

Simply only Centro in recent memory got a mark via chasing and got a medal in the 1500 in osaka.

Daegu?
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tm71 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:53 am

Pego wrote:
18.99s wrote:I hate how they've squeezed down the eligibility period. The window should start early enough to include the previous year's World or Olympic games, or at least the medalists from the previous year should be treated as having the A standard.


Agreed.


i think a qualifying window from July 20, 2012 to July 20, 2013 would make sense for this year's meet.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby highjumpfan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:07 am

Alan Shank wrote:
Marlow wrote:I am one of those fans who loves the marks-chasing window. It's an event unto itself.


You would! They are time trials, with little to do with racing.
OTOH, I like those, too, as well as all kinds of races.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


As a fan who has limited access to viewing of actual races, I have no problem with time trials. In person an actual race is much more exciting I agree, but just seeing the results on an agate, a solo 3:31 or 12:58 is much more interesting then a mass 3:45 or 14:50 finish. If I had unlimited resources and time, I would happily travel to all the dl competitions, but sadly I am stuck at home reading a message board and waiting for etrack to get most of my results so the thrill of racing is lost on me.

I do however get to watch the wc, and I would be much happier if I could see names and faces I have seen before regardless of how they got there.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby donley2 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:27 am

This not really big news (but a good excuse to bump this thread), USATF 1500 7th placer David Torrence has an "A" with his 3.34.06 in Tomblaine yesterday.

http://www.tilastopaja.org/db/toplist.p ... eason=2013
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby exdrake » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:55 am

3:34.19 (you posted the time of guy immediately ahead of Torrence).
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:53 pm

If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:59 pm

tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.


Not quite true, as the overriding determinant is to have the slots filled. If, at the end of the day the only way to get a third slot is to have Torrance in, they might do that. The problem is the processing etc.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:04 pm

26mi235 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.

Not quite true, as the overriding determinant is to have the slots filled. If, at the end of the day the only way to get a third slot is to have Torrance in, they might do that. The problem is the processing etc.

That's not the way I read what they published. They say they'll go below the top 4 in the Nationals only for athletes who have met the applicable standard at or prior to the Nationals.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby donley2 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:09 pm

tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.


Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby DrJay » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:10 pm

tandfman wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.

Not quite true, as the overriding determinant is to have the slots filled. If, at the end of the day the only way to get a third slot is to have Torrance in, they might do that. The problem is the processing etc.

That's not the way I read what they published. They say they'll go below the top 4 in the Nationals only for athletes who have met the applicable standard at or prior to the Nationals.


I seem to remember that as well. Not sure that makes sense....fill the slots if able, even it's the last place finisher at USATF.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:30 pm

DrJay wrote:I seem to remember that as well. Not sure that makes sense....fill the slots if able, even it's the last place finisher at USATF.


At the beginning of the 'rules' that is what it says. So, are they going to follow all of the rule details or their Rule #1 (or #0)?
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:46 pm

donley2 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.


Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.


I can't name chapter and verse, but they have "filled" in the past. Pretty sure you'll find a Breaux Greer instance.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Blues » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:22 pm

gh wrote:
donley2 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.


Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.


I can't name chapter and verse, but they have "filled" in the past. Pretty sure you'll find a Breaux Greer instance.


tandfman is going by the stated official USATF rules and procedures for Moscow World Championships team selection. I think Greer made the 2008 Olympic team because of a special clause that allowed the addition of injured athletes who competed in the trials but didn't make the team, if they had the A standard, and as long as no other athlete was displaced.

The 2013 USATF Governance Handbook includes the paragraph below, but interestingly it doesn't include the World Championships.. Does anyone have an idea why that might be?:

220512 Complete teams-

In obtaining representation for the United States in each competition and event of the Olympic Games, Paralympic Games, and Pan-American Games, the corporation, either directly or by delegation to the appropriate national governing body or paralympic sports organization, may select, but is not obligated to select (even if not selecting will result in an incomplete team for an event), athletes who have not met the eligibility standard of the national governing body and the Corporation, when the number of athletes who have met the eligibility standards of such entities is insufficient to fill the roster for an event.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:43 pm

gh wrote:
donley2 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.

Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.

I can't name chapter and verse, but they have "filled" in the past. Pretty sure you'll find a Breaux Greer instance.

I think the rules were different in the past.

The reason not to do this, given the current printed rules, is that it's arguably not fair to others below the 4th place finishers who could have chased the standards but didn't do so because the rules said that post-Nationals marks wouldn't count.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:51 pm

the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:59 pm

I guess we'll know in a few weeks.
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gm » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:33 pm

gh wrote:the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.


Got an errant "N" there :wink:
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Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby lionelp1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:29 pm

gh wrote:the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.


Can the rules of the T&F Committee be anymore complex, stultifying and generally quite meaningless than the UKA Rules for Selection Process. I doubt it. The latter select who they want and there is always a clause dreamed up by their "experts" to justify their choices.
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