Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)


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Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:20 pm

During an interview after the women's 10K, Alberto Salazar mentioned he might organize a meet so Tara Erdmann and Jordan Hasay can chase the 31:45 "A" standard.

GREAT idea!
But he also apparently said that race would be "mixed", with one or more of his group doing the pacing for the women.
Meaning he'd have a man do the pacing!

I don't see why a woman couldn't be the pacer.
Salazar knows everyone in track, so surely he could find a good woman to handle the pacing, maybe going the first 5K in about 15:50.

Also, while not part of his group, I'd like to see the meet opened up to others, men and women, who need Q's.
I'm thinking especially of Cory McGee, the SC'ers who need a mark (Kipp, Higginson??), and ALL of the male 1500 crew!!

And I'm sure I've forgotten some others who need Q's.

As was suggested, it could be held at Hayward (or Portland?), with maybe 5000 fans showing up to watch!!

One thing Salazar said today that confuses me.
He said, I believe, that his group (including Mary Cain) are heading for his training site in St Moritz!
Sounded like they'd be leaving almost immediately.
If so, then when would this "marks chasing" meet be held??
And where?
Last edited by aaronk on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby doug5321 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:09 am

there is plenty of time, 27 days, my guess is all our runners that need standards will get into meets in europe, except the 10000 runners jordan and erdmann, the reason they probably wont chase the 10000 standard in europe is because the only womens 10000 in europe that i know of is thursdays meet in ostrava and salazar may think that is not enough recovery after their last race (salazar has said in the past his athletes can even run a marathon 1 week after a 10000 saying farah may run the 10k/marathon double in 2016, and rupp and farah ran the 10k/5k double in 2012)

but those are older mature athletes erdmann and hasay are still very young so they may need more time. or maybe salazar did not know there is a womens 10000 in ostrava at the time he was interviewed, if that is the case i am sure it has been brought to his attention by now.

another possible option is sometimes countries doing national championships allow guest athletes, defar ran her 29:59 in the british championships and kidane has run the british trials also.

hopefully the ostrava startlist will be out today or tomorrow to see if hasay and erdmann have entered.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:12 am

doug5321 wrote:there is plenty of time, 27 days, my guess is all our runners that need standards will get into meets in europe, except the 10000 runners jordan and erdmann, the reason they probably wont chase the 10000 standard in europe is because the only womens 10000 in europe that i know of is thursdays meet in ostrava and salazar may think that is not enough recovery after their last race (salazar has said in the past his athletes can even run a marathon 1 week after a 10000 saying farah may run the 10k/marathon double in 2016, and rupp and farah ran the 10k/5k double in 2012)

but those are older mature athletes erdmann and hasay are still very young so they may need more time. or maybe salazar did not know there is a womens 10000 in ostrava at the time he was interviewed, if that is the case i am sure it has been brought to his attention by now.

another possible option is sometimes countries doing national championships allow guest athletes, defar ran her 29:59 in the british championships and kidane has run the british trials also.

hopefully the ostrava startlist will be out today or tomorrow to see if hasay and erdmann have entered.


If you saw the video of his comments----it's only about 90 seconds long-----he was talking about setting up the meet in Eugene or Portland....and specifically spoke of "mixed" races.
Also, this (mixed races, and this meet in general) has been discussed at length in another thread....I believe the USATF women's 10K thread.
Probably should transfer those comments over here!

My thought is, even if it's "legal"----meaning that the marks would be counted for "A" standard----it's not necessary.
There must be some women who wouldn't mind running the first 5K in 15:50 or so....as their own training exercise.
Maybe even Treniere Moser could do that!
(I'd suggest Mary Cain, but she's too new to 5K distance, and a pacer needs to be steady and reliable, like Phoebe Wright was in the Oxy 1500!)
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:52 am

Added thought, about Ostrava.

I think Salazar wants a "controlled" pace, and it's a gamble to depend on a World Challenge meet's 10K field to run a "controlled" pace.
With his own meet, he could find a runner to pace them (Erdman and Hasay) at steady 76's, or whatever.
Also, why should the 1500 guys and the woman SC'ers, and Cory McGee have to go all over the globe to find races?
If Salazar does this meet, surely he could find a guy or two to take the 1500 field through in 1:55 or so.
Ditto with a woman to take McGee (and whomever else might want to run a fast 1500) through in 2:12 or 2:14.
The steeplechase too.....must be a woman somewhere who could pace Kipp and Higginson through the first 1500 of the race!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby doug5321 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:05 am

aaronk wrote:Added thought, about Ostrava.


Also, why should the 1500 guys and the woman SC'ers, and Cory McGee have to go all over the globe to find races?


because thats where they make their money.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:12 am

doug5321 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Added thought, about Ostrava.


Also, why should the 1500 guys and the woman SC'ers, and Cory McGee have to go all over the globe to find races?


because thats where they make their money.


True!
But is money the purpose here?
I thought getting the standard was the purpose.
If the latter is the case, then a "controlled" meet close to home (Though McGee's in Florida, I believe!) would seem to suit Salazar's (and the runners, of course!) needs the best.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby doug5321 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:55 pm

womens 10000 in sollentuna on thursday featuring meseret defar.

also a mens 10000 with gebrihiwot, gebremeskel and gebremariam. http://www.trackandfield.se/anmalda.aspx?&compID=79
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby tm71 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:12 pm

I don't think the IAAF allows mixed M/F races to get world championships standards
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby Samurai_Runner » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm

tm71 wrote:I don't think the IAAF allows mixed M/F races to get world championships standards


Yes, they do. See Daivd Monti's tweet:
https://twitter.com/d9monti/status/331826637903630337

I'm sure Salazar checked this out before publicly stating he would setup a mixed gender race.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby doug5321 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:01 am

the attempt at 10000 for hasay and erdmann will be on july 17th. http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield ... out_sports
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby tm71 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:05 am

doug5321 wrote:the attempt at 10000 for hasay and erdmann will be on july 17th. http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield ... out_sports



kind of last moment, but at least they get some time to recover and train for this.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:35 am

It'll be do or die!!
Since the deadline for chasing is just 3 days later, this attempt will be IT!!

Worst case scenario:
Neither makes the standards they need!

Then who goes??

BTW, make no mistake!! I hope and expect BOTH WILL make it!!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby wineturtle » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:02 pm

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250797 ... mpionships
Chart of who has what at this point

Flanagan spot is sure she has A
Hasting in 4th moves up if either Hasay or Erdman fail to get a B
If they get an AB combo they both go
both get B- Hasay goes as higher placer and Hasting fills the AAB team

10,000m - Women
Shalane Flanagan Jordan Hasay Tara Erdmann Amy Hastings
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:41 pm

wineturtle wrote:http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/250797-USA-Outdoor-Track-Field-Championships-2013/article/21211-Team-USA-Qualifiers-from-the-US-Outdoor-TF-Championships
Chart of who has what at this point

Flanagan spot is sure she has A
Hasting in 4th moves up if either Hasay or Erdman fail to get a B
If they get an AB combo they both go
both get B- Hasay goes as higher placer and Hasting fills the AAB team

10,000m - Women
Shalane Flanagan Jordan Hasay Tara Erdmann Amy Hastings


If neither get it then Goucher would also go.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby rsb2 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:49 pm

It will be interesting to see how Hastings and Goucher manage their training and racing over the next several weeks, not knowing if they are racing the 10000 at Worlds or not.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby exdrake » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:34 am

Since the allowing of mixed-race result for qualifying is so surprising or counterintuitive....causing me to wonder.......if, to negate wind being a factor...: could this A/B mark chase race be done on the UW 307m indoor track?!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby gh » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:42 am

as I understand the rules, yes, it could.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby exdrake » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:43 am

WOW. i was completely ready to be ridiculed for asking that.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby sprintdoc » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:14 am

Did anyone read the link? Says race will be held at Roosevelt HS in Portland which is newly built local track that UP shares but does it have a curb? Obviously UW shouldn't qualify as it has never had the requisit cones on the curves. If San Diego marks can't count then nothing at UW should ever be allowed to count.

Doesn't there have to be a minimum number of events? Sanctions? The whole mixed race deal is a travesty to the sport and just mucks up Salazar's reputation IMHO. We disallow marathon world records for pacing and yet will now allow for World Championship qualifying?

Where is the track media heaping the deserved BS on this?
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:04 pm

sprintdoc wrote:Did anyone read the link? Says race will be held at Roosevelt HS in Portland which is newly built local track that UP shares but does it have a curb? Obviously UW shouldn't qualify as it has never had the requisit cones on the curves. If San Diego marks can't count then nothing at UW should ever be allowed to count.

Doesn't there have to be a minimum number of events? Sanctions? The whole mixed race deal is a travesty to the sport and just mucks up Salazar's reputation IMHO. We disallow marathon world records for pacing and yet will now allow for World Championship qualifying?

Where is the track media heaping the deserved BS on this?


All San Diego would need to do is put the right cones on, I think -- see many indoor meets. In fact, look at Eaton's first WR. They had cones but not adequate ones and IAAF still ratified the record (visually, it seemed that there were meters between the cones in the sections that could be assessed easily)!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby gh » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:03 pm

sprintdoc wrote:Did anyone read the link? Says race will be held at Roosevelt HS in Portland which is newly built local track that UP shares but does it have a curb? Obviously UW shouldn't qualify as it has never had the requisit cones on the curves....


I believe the Washington situation was resolved a couple of years back and all is now kosher.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:44 pm

sprintdoc wrote:Did anyone read the link? Says race will be held at Roosevelt HS in Portland which is newly built local track that UP shares but does it have a curb? Obviously UW shouldn't qualify as it has never had the requisit cones on the curves. If San Diego marks can't count then nothing at UW should ever be allowed to count.

Doesn't there have to be a minimum number of events? Sanctions? The whole mixed race deal is a travesty to the sport and just mucks up Salazar's reputation IMHO. We disallow marathon world records for pacing and yet will now allow for World Championship qualifying?

Where is the track media heaping the deserved BS on this?


I'm with you 100%......concerning your second paragraph!
I even tweeted Jordan Hasay........saying I was offering unasked for advice......and then told her she should get Moser (or someone like her) to pace them (Hasay and Erdmann).......to make their effort "pure".
While mixed race results are acceptable-----i.e. Cayla Hatton's 33:17 last year in a men's college 10K race------I'd rather they be banned.
Hasay said, in an interview, that she'd be having guys in front of her, alongside her, and in back of her!!
Geez, that sounds like that protective truck convoy from "Smokey and the Bandit"!!! :lol:
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:56 pm

[quote="aaronk] Hasay said, in an interview, that she'd be having guys in front of her, alongside her, and in back of her!!
Geez, that sounds like that protective truck convoy from "Smokey and the Bandit"!!! :lol:[/quote]


Actually, more like every marathon Gebrselassie has run in the past decade.
.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:56 pm

[quote="aaronk] I even tweeted Jordan Hasay........saying I was offering unasked for advice......and then told her she should get Moser (or someone like her) to pace them (Hasay and Erdmann).......to make their effort "pure". [/quote]

Another idea: You could keep a respectful distance and let her and her new coach do what they feel is best.

And maybe stop second-guessing a proven successful expert, too, while you're at it.

It's not about you.
.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby exdrake » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:16 am

If chase race were on UW's 307m indoor track...not only no wind but they could set thermostat @ 57.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 am

exdrake wrote:If chase race were on UW's 307m indoor track...not only no wind but they could set thermostat @ 57.


They'd be running close to 33 laps!!
Better give them anti-dizziness pills!! :P
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby az2004 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:21 am

would some one like cory McGee be permitted to run in the Salazar meet or is it only for his Oregon flk
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby Samurai_Runner » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:38 am

sprintdoc wrote:Doesn't there have to be a minimum number of events? Sanctions? The whole mixed race deal is a travesty to the sport and just mucks up Salazar's reputation IMHO. We disallow marathon world records for pacing and yet will now allow for World Championship qualifying?

Where is the track media heaping the deserved BS on this?

He is following the rules, so why bash him? If you don't like the rules, complain about the IAAF. He is doing everything legitimately & above table to help his athletes, which is what a coach should be doing. USATF should also support whatever is in the best interests of the athletes and helping them. That is why they are allowing chasing of the standards. There weren't any realistic opportunities for the women's 10k candidates to run in a quality 10k in good conditions. So, Salazar didn't have a choice other than setup a race.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby TN1965 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:49 am

aaronk wrote:There must be some women who wouldn't mind running the first 5K in 15:50 or so....as their own training exercise.


There are women who could run pace the first 5K in 15:50, but Luke Puskedra could run the whole 10K in 31:40 as a training run. Besides, he would be an excellent windshield. Maybe that's his role in NOP... :)
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby booond » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:32 am

TN1965 wrote:
aaronk wrote:There must be some women who wouldn't mind running the first 5K in 15:50 or so....as their own training exercise.


There are women who could run pace the first 5K in 15:50, but Luke Puskedra could run the whole 10K in 31:40 as a training run. Besides, he would be an excellent windshield. Maybe that's his role in NOP... :)


Must be some woman... who? And why would they do it, how reliable are they as a pacer? For most women distance runners 15:50 is more than a training race. This argument is about male/female pacer is ridiculous. Put the best person for that role on the track and see if the two women can meet the standard.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:55 am

booond wrote:
TN1965 wrote:
aaronk wrote:There must be some women who wouldn't mind running the first 5K in 15:50 or so....as their own training exercise.


There are women who could run pace the first 5K in 15:50, but Luke Puskedra could run the whole 10K in 31:40 as a training run. Besides, he would be an excellent windshield. Maybe that's his role in NOP... :)


Must be some woman... who? And why would they do it, how reliable are they as a pacer? For most women distance runners 15:50 is more than a training race. This argument is about male/female pacer is ridiculous. Put the best person for that role on the track and see if the two women can meet the standard.


I was thinking mainly about Treniere Moser.
She's part of Salazar's team, so he wouldn't have to go outside of his group.
She's run 15:11...and could probably go much faster.
And.....she actually DID some pacing....of Tara Erdmann during the PTF 5K!!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby booond » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:03 pm

aaronk wrote:
booond wrote:
TN1965 wrote:
aaronk wrote:There must be some women who wouldn't mind running the first 5K in 15:50 or so....as their own training exercise.


There are women who could run pace the first 5K in 15:50, but Luke Puskedra could run the whole 10K in 31:40 as a training run. Besides, he would be an excellent windshield. Maybe that's his role in NOP... :)


Must be some woman... who? And why would they do it, how reliable are they as a pacer? For most women distance runners 15:50 is more than a training race. This argument is about male/female pacer is ridiculous. Put the best person for that role on the track and see if the two women can meet the standard.


I was thinking mainly about Treniere Moser.
She's part of Salazar's team, so he wouldn't have to go outside of his group.
She's run 15:11...and could probably go much faster.
And.....she actually DID some pacing....of Tara Erdmann during the PTF 5K!!


If she and Salazar thought that was best for her and Hasay/Erdman you'd think she'd volunteer. Why do you think she hasn't volunteered?
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby DrJay » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:42 pm

I have no problem with a mixed-gender mark. With all this debate, maybe they should just use pacing lights like the ITA used.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:25 pm

DrJay wrote:I have no problem with a mixed-gender mark. With all this debate, maybe they should just use pacing lights like the ITA used.


Drafting, not just pacing, especially if there are winds. This could be a problem if the weather is bad; and unfortunate choice if the late date does not allow a makeup.
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Portland Roughrider Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:42 am

It's now official.
It has a NAME!!
The Alberto Salazar meet organized to help Jordan Hasay and Tara Erdmann get their Q's for the WC....is being called the Portland Roughrider Twilight Meet.
The Roughriders is the high school's mascot, and all income from the meet is being donated to the high school's athletics department.

Besides the women's/men/s 10K (one race!!), there will be some 800's, miles, 3K's and a woman's SC!!
Some POSSIBLE entrants names are being spoken of:

Luke Puskedra in a 3K
Trevor Dunbar in a mile
Mary Cain in an 800
the 3 Bowerman AC women in the SC.

If the weather, or the runner's health, is sub-par on the 15th, the 10K will be held separately on the 19th, same location.

P.S. Can someone who knows how please change this thread's title to the above.....Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?).
Thank you!!
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby az2004 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:53 am

so cain is doing the 800 for speedwork I suspect, that gives her 2 weeks of intense training for it. to re sharpen for Moscow


lets see what she can do in the 800, now she can focus solely on that
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby KevinM » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:14 am

az2004 wrote:so cain is doing the 800 for speedwork I suspect, that gives her 2 weeks of intense training for it. to re sharpen for Moscow


lets see what she can do in the 800, now she can focus solely on that


I imagine she will continue to train as a mid-d runner, specifically one preparing for rounds of 1500m in Moscow, and not "solely" on the 800m.
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Re: Salazar's "mark chasing" meet

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:15 am

az2004 wrote:so cain is doing the 800 for speedwork I suspect, that gives her 2 weeks of intense training for it. to re sharpen for Moscow


lets see what she can do in the 800, now she can focus solely on that


Cain running there is NOT official!!
Portland Track Festival staff are organizing the meet, NOT Salazar!!
(They took over the organization of the meet!!)
Portland Track twitter has some entry info up.
(See Portland Track twitter!)
In the initial write-up about the meet, the above names (Puskedra, Dunbar, the Bowerman AC women--but no names!!--and Cain) were MENTIONED.....but nothing is official as yet!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Alberto Salazar said today (on Twitter??) that Jordan Hasay had "the best distance workout of any female athlete I've ever coached"!!!

Sounds like her attempt at an "A" just might get an "A" grade!! :D
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby James Fields » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:52 pm

Why is this marks-chasing meet to be held on a high school track instead of Lewis & Clark college stadium, the usual host for Portland Track Festival (and many other USATF-sanctioned meets for decades). It has great spectator seating, sightlines, and sound system plus nice steeple water jump, tall trees nearby serving as wind break and cooling sun-shade, lots of parking, etc.
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