how good was David Beckham?


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby TN1965 » Tue May 21, 2013 2:20 pm

Rog wrote:Definitely not jealous. Just a completely different kind of person. He's a moneygrabber and I'm all about zen :D


Yuu mean, like Barbra Streisand's "Zen Master" aka Andre Agassi? Wasn't "Image" everything for him? :lol:
TN1965
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:38 pm

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Athleticsimaging » Wed May 22, 2013 3:26 am

Marlow wrote:I have never been able to discern a single meaningful contribution by the Kardashians.


Dude, they keep this site reminiscing about how good an athlete Bruce was. Isn't that worth their worthlessness?
Athleticsimaging
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Rog » Thu May 30, 2013 4:35 am

With reference to my earlier point about Beckham's use of his children to push the brand, I've just checked the website of one UK paper - "The Daily Mail" - and it turns out he has had 12 stories in that one paper this month alone involving his children. Here's a sample story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... Romeo.html

This kind of PR is instigated by Beckham and his people to push the brand. My concern though is why he has to use his children so much to further build what must be a sizeable fortune? What kind of childhood are his kids having when they're part child, part product line? Do they wonder if they're kids or a revenue stream?
Rog
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby gh » Thu May 30, 2013 5:08 am

at the Sharks/Kings playoff game the other night they flashed to Tom Cruise in the crowd, then noted that sitting right behind him were Beckham and his wife... each with a kid on their lap.
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Brian » Thu May 30, 2013 7:03 pm

Rog wrote: If like me you can't stand David Beckham...


And if [you're] like me, you're outrageously handsome and live in Northern Minnesota.
:]

Seriously though, I won't even try to pretend I am qualified to judge anyone's historical greatness at futbol/soccer.

But when I don't know someone personally--as in the case with celebrities--I tend to go more by their actions when the cameras AREN''T on them and rolling:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... amily.html
.
Brian
 
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Fri May 31, 2013 10:31 am

You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

However good a footballer he may have been, he's famous because Vicky saw the potential and used her Girl Power to make it happen.

He'd be nothing without his Spice Girl wife.
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 1:02 pm

Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

As a celebrity model, no, but his footballing career has nothing to do with her. He'd still be on a par with Cristiano Ronaldo, who is pretty danged famous.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby observer2 » Fri May 31, 2013 1:13 pm

Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

However good a footballer he may have been, he's famous because Vicky saw the potential and used her Girl Power to make it happen.

He'd be nothing without his Spice Girl wife.


I guess you are talking about a small target group in USA. In Europe David Beckham is a great name and Victoria is his wife (who used to sing in a group called "Spice Girls" if mentioned)
observer2
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:47 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 1:49 pm

observer2 wrote:I guess you are talking about a small target group in USA. In Europe David Beckham is a great name and Victoria is his wife (who used to sing in a group called "Spice Girls" if mentioned)

Flumpy is talking about the fact that Victoria invented his celebrity image, which has far surpassed his football persona. Americans know him much more as a celebrity, than we do as a footballer.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Brian » Fri May 31, 2013 4:09 pm

Marlow wrote:
observer2 wrote:I guess you are talking about a small target group in USA. In Europe David Beckham is a great name and Victoria is his wife (who used to sing in a group called "Spice Girls" if mentioned)

Flumpy is talking about the fact that Victoria invented his celebrity image, which has far surpassed his football persona. Americans know him much more as a celebrity, than we do as a footballer.


Wouldn't argue either of the above points.

But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham.
.
Brian
 
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 4:13 pm

Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Fri May 31, 2013 4:40 pm

Marlow wrote:
Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!

Amen!
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Brian » Fri May 31, 2013 7:47 pm

lonewolf wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!

Amen!


And to complete the circle to track & field (how many remember this?):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liz-smith ... 25743.html

:]
Brian
 
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Marlow wrote:
Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

As a celebrity model, no, but his footballing career has nothing to do with her. He'd still be on a par with Cristiano Ronaldo, who is pretty danged famous.


No. Without her he'd be Michael Owen or Alan Shearer. His fame as a footballer is intrinsically linked to his celebrity. I have no doubt he's was a great player but his legend is about so much more than that and that is 100% down to Victoria's PR skills.
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:05 pm

observer2 wrote:
Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

However good a footballer he may have been, he's famous because Vicky saw the potential and used her Girl Power to make it happen.

He'd be nothing without his Spice Girl wife.


I guess you are talking about a small target group in USA. In Europe David Beckham is a great name and Victoria is his wife (who used to sing in a group called "Spice Girls" if mentioned)


That simply isn't true.

At the time of meeting she was one of the most famous women in the world. She still is. It may not be a world you understand but her picture on the cover of any magazine is guaranteed to generate a giant bump in sales and her fashion label is HUGE. She's done far more in her career to justify her level of fame than he has. To just dismiss her as some woman who used to be in pop group is absurd.

Even in the UK his fame could have been a completely transitory thing without her. It's not as if he has a great personality or was even much of a looker before Vicky took over. His footballing skills are one thing but we have many great footballers who don't even attain his level of fame. When they first met he was just one of any number of up and coming players. It's his association with Victoria that gave him the edge over the others and was the reason so many people outside of sports fans took notice of his football skills in the first place. He may have been on the sports pages before but she restyled him completely and put him on the front pages where he has stayed ever since.

How many billboards do you see Steve Gerrard or Frank Lampard on???
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:17 pm

Flumpy wrote:At the time of meeting she was one of the most famous women in the world. She still is.

Not here she wasn't/isn't. They made each other famous here.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:29 pm

That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.

Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:49 pm

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.
Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.

She didn't sell 20M, the Spice Girls did, and she was just another one of them. I seriously knew nothing about her till Bex married her.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Flump - you are 100% wrong. She's never been more than a very minor asterisk in the US. She's known as his wife who happens to be a former Spice Girl and I would say that the Spice Girl's recognition in present day America is mainly due to Becks.
marknhj
 
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:05 pm

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.

Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.

I had never heard of her before she married Beckham. Hell, I barely knew who the Spice Girls were. What you have to remember is that the U.K. only makes up 1% of the world's popluation, and so it's unwise to assume that because someone is famous in the U.K., they are famous worldwide. Similarly, just because Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton are well-known here, doesn't mean they are well-known outside of America despite the fact that the U.S. has five times the population of the U.K.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:22 pm

I think I may be representative of the huge "culturally uniformed" mass of Americans. I don't remember being aware of the Spice "Girls or Beckham until they were married, became a couple or whatever.
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:31 am

marknhj wrote:Flump - you are 100% wrong. She's never been more than a very minor asterisk in the US. She's known as his wife who happens to be a former Spice Girl and I would say that the Spice Girl's recognition in present day America is mainly due to Becks.


You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her. It was her celebrity, PR skills and vison that created them as a brand in the first place. There wouldn't have been anythign to sell in America or anywhere alse without her creating him

He is no better footballer than Michael Owen it was Victoria celebrity and re invention that took him onto the front pages and allowed him to be in a postion that anyone would want to recognise him worldwide

When they got engaged it wasn't because of him (or his looks) that put their photo on front page of every news paper in the UK (and many worldwide).

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximag ... /pb1,0.jpg

Flumpy isn't saying that she is more famous than him now but she certainly was when they met and it is her that has created the David Beckham that we see today.

Middle aged men may not have been aware of her but since when did that demographic create stars ?? In 1998 she was once of the most famous people in the world and on the front pages every single day,it was the association with her that made him a celebrity and them as a brand that took it over the top.
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:36 am

mump boy wrote:You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her.

Yes, but THIS was Flump's statement, which is incorrect:

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him. Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:13 am

Nothing about that statement is incorrect.

Although maybe it was only 15m records.
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby EPelle » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:23 am

EPelle
 
Posts: 21442
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby KDFINE » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:13 pm

Flumpy - Owen was was way better than Beckham.
KDFINE
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:20 pm

That was my point.

Where are his billboards and Vanity Fair covers???

But then he just married his childhood sweetheart.
Flumpy
 
Posts: 3899
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Vielleicht » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:02 am

A popular pop-group is something quite different from a popular individual in that group. Many people knew about Spice Girls but fewer knew about Victoria.
Vielleicht
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:11 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:59 am

Vielleicht wrote:A popular pop-group is something quite different from a popular individual in that group. Many people knew about Spice Girls but fewer knew about Victoria.


That is not true in the UK, they were all individually the most famous people in the country

It was her celebrity that created him and them (Posh and Becks) as a brand in the UK first and without this branding he would never have been known abroad.

No matter how skilled they are, how many other UK soccer players are household names in the US ?
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 am

mump boy wrote:That is not true in the UK, they were all individually the most famous people in the country It was her celebrity that created him and them (Posh and Becks) as a brand in the UK first and without this branding he would never have been known abroad.

And there's the crux of the matter. The UK and the USA are completely different regarding this couple. In the USA, he made her; in the UK she made him (who then made her in the USA).
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:17 am

I think Marlow is correct here. There is no doubt that posh was we'll known in the UK but I have never seen her on the radar screen here until they moved to LA. And then always as Beckham's wife.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Both sides are correct in their conviction.Has there been a sillier argument in the history of this board?
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:33 pm

In the US he did not even make her, she is not a particular entity at all. I can recognize her with him but not on her own, and I would guess that is true for most that can recognize her with him. Now maybe she 'made' him there and then as a result he was big here and so she had an indirect role, but to indicate that she made him here in any direct way is about as far off as many characterizations of 'non-standard' lifestyles by the religiously conservative subset in the US.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:28 pm

I agree this is possibly most stupid argument in the history of this board !!

There is no 'David Beckham' to to become famous in US without her creating the brand in the UK first.

Nobody is arguing that she is more famous than him in the US now but without her in the first place he wouldn't exist at all

He didn't arrive fully formed on american shores, he was a non descript, not very attractive, well known to sports fans but not to the wider public, shy footballer with a funny voice before getting engaged to her,

She turned this

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua ... .--008.jpg

into this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/pictur ... ml?image=3

within 1 year

And you wouldn't believe the front page headlines a footballer wearing a sarong created !! (as was intended)

They didn't move to LA till '07 he had been world famous for 10 years before then and it wasn't because of his football skills. By the time you'd heard of him, his fame had eclipsed hers, of course but that doesn't mean it wasn't her who created it in the first place. If he'd married someone not in the public eye he would not be in the position he is now. He is a willing construct of his wife and more importantly Simon Fuller and the seed of it all comes from his marriage.

Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby gh » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:01 pm

mump boy wrote:I...
Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together


that may well be, but on the other side of the coin is your apparent lack of understanding of who is hip on this side of the pond.

(and if "celebrity culture" isn't a self-cancelling phrase, I don't know what is!)
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

mump boy wrote:Nobody is arguing that she is more famous than him in the US now but without her in the first place he wouldn't exist at all

Not quite true, as you were citing all her record sales in the US. I agree she transformed him into to something that LA finds chic.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby bambam » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:23 pm

Maybe we should start a new thread about what was the stupidest argument ever on this board?
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:44 pm

bambam wrote:Maybe we should start a new thread about what was the stupidest argument ever on this board?

:D the only thing stupider than talking about stupid stuff is talking about talking about stupid stuff!!!!
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:13 pm

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:I...
Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together


that may well be, but on the other side of the coin is your apparent lack of understanding of who is hip on this side of the pond.

(and if "celebrity culture" isn't a self-cancelling phrase, I don't know what is!)


I totally understand who is hip either side of the pond, what you lot are refusing to understand is why

He was a run of the mill, not particularly famous footballer before he met her, it was her fame and pr instincts (alongside Simon Fuller, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fuller who turned the Spice Girls into a worldwide phenomenon and also created American Idol) that made him into something that could be sold world wide including the US

You lot came late to the party and are now trying to tell me how it was organised !!
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:15 pm

Daisy wrote: I agree she transformed him into to something that LA finds chic.


So you agree with Flump and me then, because that was the initial statement from Flump that so many have taken umbrage with.

This getting too stupid even for me now !! i'm out

But i'll leave you with this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hfm4Z4EtxFw/T ... 2000_1.jpg
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests