marknhj wrote:Flump - you are 100% wrong. She's never been more than a very minor asterisk in the US. She's known as his wife who happens to be a former Spice Girl and I would say that the Spice Girl's recognition in present day America is mainly due to Becks.
You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her. It was her celebrity, PR skills and vison that created them as a brand in the first place. There wouldn't have been anythign to sell in America or anywhere alse without her creating him
He is no better footballer than Michael Owen it was Victoria celebrity and re invention that took him onto the front pages and allowed him to be in a postion that anyone would want to recognise him worldwide
When they got engaged it wasn't because of him (or his looks) that put their photo on front page of every news paper in the UK (and many worldwide).
Flumpy isn't saying that she is more famous than him now but she certainly was when they met and it is her that has created the David Beckham that we see today.
Middle aged men may not have been aware of her but since when did that demographic create stars ?? In 1998 she was once of the most famous people in the world and on the front pages every single day,it was the association with her that made him a celebrity and them as a brand that took it over the top.
mump boy wrote:You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her.
Yes, but THIS was Flump's statement, which is incorrect:
Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him. Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.
mump boy wrote:That is not true in the UK, they were all individually the most famous people in the country It was her celebrity that created him and them (Posh and Becks) as a brand in the UK first and without this branding he would never have been known abroad.
And there's the crux of the matter. The UK and the USA are completely different regarding this couple. In the USA, he made her; in the UK she made him (who then made her in the USA).
In the US he did not even make her, she is not a particular entity at all. I can recognize her with him but not on her own, and I would guess that is true for most that can recognize her with him. Now maybe she 'made' him there and then as a result he was big here and so she had an indirect role, but to indicate that she made him here in any direct way is about as far off as many characterizations of 'non-standard' lifestyles by the religiously conservative subset in the US.
I agree this is possibly most stupid argument in the history of this board !!
There is no 'David Beckham' to to become famous in US without her creating the brand in the UK first.
Nobody is arguing that she is more famous than him in the US now but without her in the first place he wouldn't exist at all
He didn't arrive fully formed on american shores, he was a non descript, not very attractive, well known to sports fans but not to the wider public, shy footballer with a funny voice before getting engaged to her,
And you wouldn't believe the front page headlines a footballer wearing a sarong created !! (as was intended)
They didn't move to LA till '07 he had been world famous for 10 years before then and it wasn't because of his football skills. By the time you'd heard of him, his fame had eclipsed hers, of course but that doesn't mean it wasn't her who created it in the first place. If he'd married someone not in the public eye he would not be in the position he is now. He is a willing construct of his wife and more importantly Simon Fuller and the seed of it all comes from his marriage.
Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together
mump boy wrote:I... Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together
that may well be, but on the other side of the coin is your apparent lack of understanding of who is hip on this side of the pond.
(and if "celebrity culture" isn't a self-cancelling phrase, I don't know what is!)
I totally understand who is hip either side of the pond, what you lot are refusing to understand is why
He was a run of the mill, not particularly famous footballer before he met her, it was her fame and pr instincts (alongside Simon Fuller, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fuller who turned the Spice Girls into a worldwide phenomenon and also created American Idol) that made him into something that could be sold world wide including the US
You lot came late to the party and are now trying to tell me how it was organised !!
mump boy wrote:I totally understand who is hip either side of the pond
Because you've spent so much time here? We don't pretend to 'get' British pop culture, and if your understanding of us is reading TMZ or some such, you're not even close. If you spend at least 6 months a year here, then I retract my skepticism. Otherwise, no way.
I do find it hilarious how a bunch of middle aged (Mostly) male sports fans are absolutely insistent that a woman is of no importance in the situatio,n simply they don't happen to have heard of her.
To the demographic into which she introduced her husband she is about as famous as can be and has been for well over a decade. She brought her husband into that sphere, hence his worldwide fame, which only partially came through his sporting prowess.
Irrespective of who you happened to hear of first, without this particular popstar wife David Beckham would just be Jamie Rednapp.