New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]


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New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby AS » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Athletics Australia just tweeted the following:

HUGE NEWS! Julian Wruck has thrown a MASSIVE NEW PB of 68.16m in the USA in a series that also included 3 other throws over 67m.


This throw by the Aussie UCLA Jr would knock over the current CR:

67.66 | 222-0 Hannes Hopley' (SMU) College Station, Texas 5/29/04

Will chase up locale...
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:33 am

Wow; I had him as one of the biggest locks of the meet, now even more so, even though the discus can be a little variable.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby AS » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:57 am

Meet was the Claremont Hammer and Discus Elite Invitational.

Footage here: http://www.insideathletics.com.au/field ... in-the-usa
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby bushop » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:09 am

Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 01
New PB! 68.16 [223' 7"]! — at Claremont College California
Rutger Smith via Facebook wrote:Rutger Smith June 01
Great job mate! Was planning to throw there too! Very nice field! Enjoy!
Victor Li via Facebook wrote:Victor Li June 01
thats a NCAA record isnt it?
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 01
Waiting to see if it gets acknowledged as a college meet Victor Li. There was only hammer and discus at the meet so it might not be a big enough meet to count.
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 01
Yes Rutger Smith I wish you could have been there, the wind was quite nice if you could throw high. Next year we will throw there together!
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 01
Big Foul! 69.23 [227' 1"]
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby AFTERBURNER » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:28 am

Hello,

Does anybody have Wruck's ancillary serie?

Thanks
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby gh » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:57 am

that's 223-7 in the way god intended things to be measured
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:35 am

gh wrote:that's 223-7 in the way god intended things to be measured


The American god is into discus too now?
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby bushop » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:27 am

AFTERBURNER wrote:Does anybody have Wruck's ancillary serie?

qualifying, to go through to the final :
1st round • foul
2nd round • 217' 3" (66.23m)
3rd round • 220' 0" (67.07m)

final :
prelim
1st round • 223' 7" (68.16m)
2nd round • 217' 9" (66.38m)
3rd round • foul

final
4th round • 222' 10" (67.93m)
5th round • 220' 3" (67.14m)
6th round • foul -- 227' 1" (69.23m)
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby AS » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:20 pm

So, ignoring the (measured) foul, Wruck has two throw over old NCAA record and 4 throws over 67m, and 5 past his old PR (66.32) :shock:
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby bushop » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:32 pm

Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 02
So my new Personal Best discus throw cannot be considered a collegiate best as the meet did not involve 10 or more events. It simply stands as a PB (PR) and nothing else. Thank you to everyone who helped me achieve it.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby aaronk » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:45 pm

bushop wrote:
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 02
So my new Personal Best discus throw cannot be considered a collegiate best as the meet did not involve 10 or more events. It simply stands as a PB (PR) and nothing else. Thank you to everyone who helped me achieve it.


Well, guess he'll just have to do it again next weekend!! :D
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby gh » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:44 pm

bushop wrote:
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 02
So my new Personal Best discus throw cannot be considered a collegiate best as the meet did not involve 10 or more events. It simply stands as a PB (PR) and nothing else. Thank you to everyone who helped me achieve it.


good news, Julian, since T&FN is the only real arbiter of Collegiate Records. We don't believe in bullshit like that arcane IAAF rule (also followed by USATF) which mandates number of events. If a marathon can stand alone, why can't a discus? (and this had more than one event)

we'll be callingit a CR
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby bushop » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:55 pm

aaronk wrote:
bushop wrote:
Julian Wruck via Facebook wrote:Julian Wruck June 02
So my new Personal Best discus throw cannot be considered a collegiate best as the meet did not involve 10 or more events. It simply stands as a PB (PR) and nothing else. Thank you to everyone who helped me achieve it.
Well, guess he'll just have to do it again next weekend!! :D

Tough to do without the big winds.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:36 pm

Note that even if the foul had not had the foot fault, the 69.23 would not have bested the (more-or-less concurrent) 69.75 HARTING Robert GER WL at Pre.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby leoesharkey » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:19 am

"that's 223-7 in the way god intended things to be measured" So God was an Englishman? LOL :D
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby gh » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:12 am

or an englishwoman
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby kreynolds » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:48 am

The NCAA 10-event rule is just for qualifying to the NCAA Championships. Thus, Wruck couldn't have used this week's 68.16m to get on the TFRRS list and qualify to, um, last week's Regional meet. Moot point, since he's already in the NCAA meet. As gh says, the 68.16m mark stands as the CR, his PR, a school record, etc.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby rhymans » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:22 am

gh wrote

or an Englishwoman

Garry, Sarah thinks in metric terms
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby AS » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:11 pm

A long page of analysis of Wruck's acheivement:
http://runnerstribe-statscentral.com/sp ... er-68-16m/

Key takeaway: the big hairy lad is only 21 years 11 months...(which means he won his first NCAA title back for Texas Tach when he was only 19...)
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby norunner » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:48 pm

Is Claremont another californian discus paradise like La Jolla, Chula Vista, Salinas...?
If it is the 68m wouldn't be worth more than his previous PB. Would be interesting to know what his PB inside a stadium is.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby AS » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:41 pm

norunner wrote:Is Claremont another californian discus paradise like La Jolla, Chula Vista, Salinas...?
If it is the 68m wouldn't be worth more than his previous PB. Would be interesting to know what his PB inside a stadium is.


His 66.32 at the Aussie Champs was in a stadium.

There may be some grounds for viewing Claremont as a 'paradise'. Carl Myserscough threw a PR there last year (65.24)
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m)

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:57 pm

gh wrote:that's 223-7 in the way god intended things to be measured

According to Yaweh, that would be about 150 cubits, give or take.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:47 pm

norunner wrote:Is Claremont another californian discus paradise like La Jolla, Chula Vista, Salinas...?
If it is the 68m wouldn't be worth more than his previous PB. Would be interesting to know what his PB inside a stadium is.


I would think that, in general, no, but see the quote from Wruck. It is only a few (well, 6-7 or so) miles from Mt SAC. You can get 'Santa Ana' winds at times but a vague memory of the layout makes me think that would not be the right angle. It is ~30 miles in from the coast and 3-4 miles from the front range of the San Gabriel Mountains (it is probably only 7 miles to the peak at Mt. Baldy (10,064). There are generally consistent westerly winds many days, but not 'wind-tunnel' type venue. Of course, on any given day things can happen.

I suppose you could as kreynolds (who just posted within the last 24 hours); he is at Pomona College and a stat geek.

from the piece with the video.
“Claremont is one of the best places I have ever thrown at. The surface of the ring is fast, the throws field is isolated so the spectators are all throwers and throws fans only. The venue also sometimes gets a nice wind which we were lucky enough to get on Saturday.

My technique felt good, my body felt good and my parents were watching (they have come over to watch me compete for the end of the college season which is special, because I don’t get to see them often). I was surrounded by some close throwing friends and competitors which also added to a great atmosphere.
I am very happy to get a personal best and to be in such good form late in the season. Thanks to everyone who has helped me get to this point.”

Note that Fortune Gordien was in the general area and his sons were throwers and one in particular was throwing in Claremont, probably coached by his father and the Pomona coach Pat Mulchahy (spelling). That might indicate that it was a nice place to throw.

New Discus PB at Claremont College: 68.16m, 4th throw
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby kreynolds » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:24 pm

No, Claremont, California is not another wind-producing Salinas or La Jolla. The Claremont-Mudd-Scripps ring where Wruck threw is a fast surface, and the hammer-discus only meet meant that all the action was right at that ring. As Wruck himself stated on throwholics.com, his folks were watching, there was no pressure, he got to take 9 competition throws (3 qual, 3 prelim, 3 finals). Great conditions.

I find Wruck's form very interesting. He starts with his right foot pulled way back from the back of the ring, much like a hammer thrower who steps in during winds. But you can't step in with the discus. Instead of 1.5 rotations like most discus throwers, he does 1.75 or so. Works well for him!
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby gh » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:57 am

I'm not really thrilled to learn about the 9-throw setup. How long before the "final" was this q-round, and was anybody eliminated? If not, then it becomes a way to simply invent a 9-throw competition, which is unfair to people who normally only have 6, and we'd have to seriously consider not conferring record status. (even if leaving the mark on the all-time list)
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:13 am

gh wrote:I'm not really thrilled to learn about the 9-throw setup. How long before the "final" was this q-round, and was anybody eliminated? If not, then it becomes a way to simply invent a 9-throw competition, which is unfair to people who normally only have 6, and we'd have to seriously consider not conferring record status. (even if leaving the mark on the all-time list)

Reminds of the way some colleges run their invitationals: they have three sets of field events - unseeded, seeded and invitational. The home team competes in all three, so they have 18 attempts, or 9 jumps at a PR height.
The irony is that if they had had Wruck in two separate DTs, then T&FN would be fine with it. Their crime was to call it one comp.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby gh » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:26 am

Marlow wrote:...
The irony is that if they had had Wruck in two separate DTs, then T&FN would be fine with it. Their crime was to call it one comp.


we would?
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:36 am

gh wrote:
Marlow wrote:...
The irony is that if they had had Wruck in two separate DTs, then T&FN would be fine with it. Their crime was to call it one comp.

we would?

I see it all the time - the big throwers go to a wind spot and have an A and B comp, yes?
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:49 am

One thing I seem to see is that throwers are out there just trying to throw and do not get religion on avoiding fouls. Then, when they get in to important competitions there are a number of fouls - if that happens in the initial qualifying round they do not make it to the next round. Same seems to go for some jumpers, but not so systematically.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby gh » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:46 am

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:
Marlow wrote:...
The irony is that if they had had Wruck in two separate DTs, then T&FN would be fine with it. Their crime was to call it one comp.

we would?

I see it all the time - the big throwers go to a wind spot and have an A and B comp, yes?


there's a vast difference between being "statistically acceptable" and being record-worthy; that was what we were talking a bout.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby aaronk » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:02 am

Like I inferred before, it ain't gonna matter one whit once Wruck tosses the platter 225 or so in Eugene!! :)
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:50 am

gh wrote:there's a vast difference between being "statistically acceptable" and being record-worthy; that was what we were talking a bout.

OK. I'm looking at May 16, 2008 on Maui and seeing Suzy Powell threw 208-11 in Comp I and then 207-7 in Comp II that day. Neither would have been record-worthy?
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby bushop » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:29 pm

Interesting.

USTFCCCA includes Wruck's big marks, but...

--- EXHIBITION ---
The following marks do not count in the all-time collegiate rankings as they were made at a meet that only featured throwing events and due to the fact that throwers were able to take as many as nine throws -- more than the six-throw maximum in collegiate competition. The notes list where each throw would have ranked in collegiate history.


Wruck Named Men’s Finalists for The Bowerman season PDF

*edit: per gh, switched NCAA with USTFCCCA
Last edited by bushop on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby El Toro » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:34 pm

bushop wrote:Interesting.

NCAA includes Wruck's big marks, but...

--- EXHIBITION ---
The following marks do not count in the all-time collegiate rankings as they were made at a meet that only featured throwing events and due to the fact that throwers were able to take as many as nine throws -- more than the six-throw maximum in collegiate competition. The notes list where each throw would have ranked in collegiate history.


Wruck Named Men’s Finalists for The Bowerman season PDF

Bizarre! So they wouldn't list any performances in a track only competition? What about runners doing heats/quarters/semis/final, is that too many opportunities to run fast? And how about those stupid Olympic shot putters getting too many throws in one day? It's not fair! Those big fellas just need to learn their place in the world - down the back of the bus if they get let on at all. :roll:

Yeah, not interested in any responses regarding the arcana of NCAA rules, thank you. This is a throwing rant!
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Re: New Collegiate MDT record (Wruck 68.16m) [223-7]

Postby gh » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:31 am

the NCAA had nothing to do with that; that was a press release from the USTFCCCA.
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