Paging Lonewolf


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Paging Lonewolf

Postby Pego » Mon May 20, 2013 2:36 pm

Are you all right?
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Marlow » Mon May 20, 2013 2:44 pm

He's too tough for a tornado to mess with, huh, lonewolf?
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Mon May 20, 2013 3:03 pm

Yep, tornadoes missed me again.
Todays tornado in Moore, OK is about twenty miles south of me. It followed the approximate path of the 1999 tornado that ripped a half mile wide path for 16 miles on the ground.
We had three area tornadoes that after noon. Moore was the south one.
The north tornado passed about two miles north of me.
The middle tornado, on a SW to NE course, was headed directly for my neighborhood on the NE shore of Lake Hefner. I stood in the front yard and watched it approach live and on TV. When it got over the lake, it made a right turn, went down Britton Road, a mile south of me, for a mile, dipped down and took out a liquor store in a strip shopping center, lifted, went another mile, dipped, destroyed a Baptist church, lifted, went about two miles and settled down to devastating Nichols HIlls, an affluent area; a comprehensive demonstration that Mother Nature does not play favorites.
Thanks for asking, guys.
Last edited by lonewolf on Mon May 20, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby aaronk » Mon May 20, 2013 6:54 pm

I shouldn't talk, as I lived through at least five 5.0 (or higher!) earthquakes in my 30 years in California, but why would you want to live in a state where tornado's are so common?

I know....it's home, and you love your home!
Same with Floridians and their hurricanes!

BTW, my favorite movie musical is "Oklahoma!".

Great to know you survived!!
But so, so sad for those who didn't! :( :(
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby donley2 » Mon May 20, 2013 7:09 pm

So roughly 50 to a 100 people die in tornadoes in an average year in the US. It is way down the list on ways to die. I grew up in southern Kansas and tornado watches and warnings were just a way of life growing up. After I turned around 10 or 12 we had a basement and I remember spending a few nights just sleeping in the basement rather than trying to keep up with all the watches and warnings.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Mon May 20, 2013 9:31 pm

A hundred to 70 years ago, when there were no TV or radio warnings, most houses in Oklahoma had basements or storm cellars that could reached in a moment. We just watched the storm approach from the southwest and went to the storm cellar before it reached us.

In recent decades, it has become common to build on slabs because it is cheaper than digging a basement and combating the water table.
In a largely rural state there was more open space for tornados to dance around, reducing massive casualties as when they hit a town.
Tornados are freakish. Circa 1940, a tornado hit our homestead, passing between the house and main barn, which were about 150 yards apart, took out every garage, hen house, smoke house and outhouse in between. One hen house built on a slab was scattered for a quarter mile while an empty nail keg sitting on the floor in a corner was undisturbed.
We were in the storm shelter 20 feet from the back door. No damage to house, main barn, two tractors or large animals but the chickens were pretty much wiped out.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Mon May 20, 2013 9:34 pm

The devastating thing about today's tornado was the children killed in the school. I ain't tough enough to not be deeply affected by that.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby batonless relay » Tue May 21, 2013 3:52 am

aaronk wrote:I shouldn't talk, as I lived through at least five 5.0 (or higher!) earthquakes in my 30 years in California, but why would you want to live in a state where tornado's are so common?

I know....it's home, and you love your home!
Same with Floridians and their hurricanes!

If you knew, which they do, that you would ultimately be bailed out by the govt, why would you move? Wild fires, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods ... same thing. Remember when Congress wouldn't even vote on disaster relief for NY, NJ, CT? That was what 6 months ago? And, almost the entire congressional delegation from OK were opposed to funds for the NYC region. I'm sure they were just reflecting the will of their constituents, so if that's how they really felt, this should be a very inexpensive. But we know better.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Marlow » Tue May 21, 2013 4:02 am

aaronk wrote:Same with Floridians and their hurricanes!

Lived here from 1975-1984 and 1993-present and the worst thing that's happened to us was power out for a day and had to chainsaw up some fallen tree limbs. Not unlike every other place I've lived (Conn, Cali, Penn, Maryland).
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby tandfman » Wed May 22, 2013 7:33 am

batonless relay wrote: Remember when Congress wouldn't even vote on disaster relief for NY, NJ, CT? That was what 6 months ago? And, almost the entire congressional delegation from OK were opposed to funds for the NYC region. I'm sure they were just reflecting the will of their constituents. . . .

Were they really? Are the people of Oklahoma, who live in an area that's very vulnerable to tornados, really opposed to Federal disaster relief? If that's the case, they're really dumb. OTOH, if it was just relief to people who live in the NYC region that they oppose, they're really narrow-minded and mean-spirited. I'd like to believe that most folks in Oklahoma are none of these.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Wed May 22, 2013 7:46 am

I do not believe empathy in these circumstances is regional or political for anyone.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby 26mi235 » Wed May 22, 2013 11:08 am

It is hard to believe that, though this is the third major storm in the last 14 years and the second Extreme F5, that almost none of the homes have basements and few have shelters and that there is no community shelter nor, apparently was there enough safe space in the elementary schools. I presume that this applies to Oklahoma City as well.

It is interesting because of another story I know. I had a couple colleagues visiting OG&E in Oklahoma City the day of the bombing. The building they were in was just over 1000m from the bomb and yet they did not notice a thing. They were on their way to a meeting going down a stairway and the building is so securely built (to withstand an extreme F5) that they neither heard nor felt the blast. In the meeting that began shortly before the blast they started to have people come to the meeting, talk to someone and they would leave. Eventually, someone said that there had been a bomb not not a BOMB, but nothing more seemed to be implied beyond someone might have been injured. They did not know that we were trying to reach them (unsuccessfully) etc. until the end of the day.

Anyway, the extended planning for safety under the most extreme of tornadoes is in contrast to what is done at the household level. You cannot build a house in (south) Florida without meeting pretty stringent building requirements which would be similar to the requirement for a safety shelter.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Dutra5 » Wed May 22, 2013 2:33 pm

aaronk wrote:I shouldn't talk

I know....it's home, and you love your home!
Same with Floridians and their hurricanes!


The first line is the most appropriate.

Maybe we should pack all 300 million of us into a 4 block radius completely devoid of risk....wherever that might be.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed May 22, 2013 3:56 pm

Dutra5 wrote:The first line is the most appropriate.

You mean this line?
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby polevaultpower » Wed May 22, 2013 10:31 pm

I am in the middle of moving to Lopez Island, and I like my odds against natural disasters there :D

Of course there are earthquakes, but most of the houses are wooden and there are no terribly large buildings, and most of it is on very solid ground that's not going to liquify like downtown Seattle will. A few small parts of the island could be impacted if a tsunami entered Puget Sound, but most houses are on high enough ground to be OK. If the ferries are knocked out, the island is fairly self-sustainable with many farms and relatively few residents.

Tornadoes? Basically impossible. Hurricanes? Nope. Blizzards? Unlikely, and you can walk just about anywhere on the island if you needed to. Volcanic eruptions? Usually the wind is blowing the wrong way for them to hit us.

Could get some of the typical winter windstorms, but those aren't usually catastrophic.

Zombie attacks? I like our odds :lol:
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Athleticsimaging » Thu May 23, 2013 4:10 am

polevaultpower wrote:Zombie attacks? I like our odds :lol:


Not when the TNF hordes decide to visit the new baby!
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Marlow » Thu May 23, 2013 4:11 am

polevaultpower wrote:I am in the middle of moving to Lopez Island,

Googlemapped it. I see the track - don't see no stinkin' PV pit!! :shock:
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby catson52 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:34 am

polevaultpower wrote:I am in the middle of moving to Lopez Island, and I like my odds against natural disasters there :D

Of course there are earthquakes, but most of the houses are wooden and there are no terribly large buildings, and most of it is on very solid ground that's not going to liquify like downtown Seattle will. A few small parts of the island could be impacted if a tsunami entered Puget Sound, but most houses are on high enough ground to be OK. If the ferries are knocked out, the island is fairly self-sustainable with many farms and relatively few residents.

Tornadoes? Basically impossible. Hurricanes? Nope. Blizzards? Unlikely, and you can walk just about anywhere on the island if you needed to. Volcanic eruptions? Usually the wind is blowing the wrong way for them to hit us.

Could get some of the typical winter windstorms, but those aren't usually catastrophic.

Zombie attacks? I like our odds :lol:


Like your choice quite a lot. However, a big earthquake is (over)due in that general area, within say the next 20-50 years.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby tandfman » Thu May 23, 2013 6:14 am

Marlow wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:I am in the middle of moving to Lopez Island,

Googlemapped it. I see the track - don't see no stinkin' PV pit!! :shock:

Maybe that's why she's moving there--to be a pioneer!
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby KDFINE » Thu May 23, 2013 9:11 am

Individuals living in "tornado alley" might decide to forego the expense of a basement, as only they are at risk. But I cannot understand allowing schools, to which we entrust our children, not having storm cellars.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby tandfman » Thu May 23, 2013 5:41 pm

I think I read somewhere the other day that only one state in the country requires that schools have "safe rooms". Of course the fact that it's not required by state law doesn't mean that a school district can't do it. It seems to me that schools in very high risk areas are irresponsible if they don't have appropriate provisions for protecting kids from tornados.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 23, 2013 7:42 pm

catson52 wrote:Like your choice quite a lot. However, a big earthquake is (over)due in that general area, within say the next 20-50 years.


No, the frequency domain for big earthquakes there is much different; they are fewer, further between, higher variance on timing (even relatively? to the average time between quakes). As I understand it there is the small probability of a very big quake -- think Alaska 1964, Japan 2012, magnitude 9+ (partly the magnitude would be very large because the north-south extent of the quake would be very long and it might be pretty big E-W depending on what the 'diving' sheet does.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Brian » Thu May 23, 2013 8:22 pm

lonewolf wrote:The devastating thing about today's tornado was the children killed in the school. I ain't tough enough to not be deeply affected by that.


Compassion isn't weakness. It's the foundation of true toughness.

Glad you made it, man.
.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby Pego » Fri May 24, 2013 3:11 am

KDFINE wrote:Individuals living in "tornado alley" might decide to forego the expense of a basement, as only they are at risk. But I cannot understand allowing schools, to which we entrust our children, not having storm cellars.


Majority of referendums on school improvements get voted down. When the tragedy hits, it is all those who voted "no" that scream the loudest.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby catson52 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:39 am

26mi235 wrote:
catson52 wrote:Like your choice quite a lot. However, a big earthquake is (over)due in that general area, within say the next 20-50 years.


No, the frequency domain for big earthquakes there is much different; they are fewer, further between, higher variance on timing (even relatively? to the average time between quakes). As I understand it there is the small probability of a very big quake -- think Alaska 1964, Japan 2012, magnitude 9+ (partly the magnitude would be very large because the north-south extent of the quake would be very long and it might be pretty big E-W depending on what the 'diving' sheet does.


I hope you are right, for I would not wish a major earthquake on anyone. I am no seismologist by training. However, with a warm (sticky) subducting plate, little release of stress (i.e. minor/moderate earthquakes) since 1700, something of 8.5+ may not be too far off in the future.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby user4 » Sat May 25, 2013 11:25 am

Brian wrote:
lonewolf wrote:The devastating thing about today's tornado was the children killed in the school. I ain't tough enough to not be deeply affected by that.


Compassion isn't weakness. It's the foundation of true toughness.

Glad you made it, man.
.


I would move to OK in a heartbeat if I had work there. Some of the best people I have ever met, hard working and generous folk. But how does an Okie from Moore build a school without a palatial storm shelter ? That is something I would like to know.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Sun May 26, 2013 7:46 pm

I believe both schools pre-date the 1999 tornado.
Not to diminish the severity of the storm and loss of life but there were a lot of unfounded preliminary reports. Actually, six children were killed in one of the schools, not by drowning in a flooded basement but by asphyxiation in a "safe room" that was smothered by debris..
Certainly one death is tragic and one could argue warrants "storm shelters" but, as we can see, there is no guaranteed fail proof solution.

Took over an hour Wednesday to drive two miles on I-35 through the devastated area enroute to West Regional at Austin. The TV pictures are horrifying but don't adequately show the destruction.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby 26mi235 » Wed May 29, 2013 2:19 pm

You might want to look at this; a journalist for CNN (and a native) that walked the entire storm route (long).

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/05/us/sutter-walk-oklahoma/?hpt=hp_c2
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby DrJay » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:24 pm

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/sn ... 1667.story

To retrofit every public school in OK with a tornado shelter would cost $2,000,000,000. Including one in the original construction would cost less, but I suspect still several hundred million. We'd like to be able to afford everything in this country, but we cannot.
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Re: Paging Lonewolf

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:35 pm

According to local info releases, all schools built in the Moore tornado path since the 1999 storm have safe rooms or basements.. The two schools involved in the recent tornado fatalities are older schools. They are being rebuilt with safe rooms and expect to be back in business in fall 2014.
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