Enough Asafa!!


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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby 18.99s » Mon May 20, 2013 5:16 pm

ATK wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:With regard to injuries, those are of no consequence. People run with injuries all the time. Let the team doctor whom I assume is qualified determine if Asafa should be on the team.

I would add to this that though Asafa has underperformed in global championship 100's, he's never done anything as shameful as what Lashawn Merritt did in London, when he showed up in his opening round unfit to run, rather give up his spot for the alternate. Powell has made every global 100 final for which he's made the team and London is the only time he ever pulled up lame. Any athlete who makes the final has justified the spot on the team IMO.

That's a seriously unfair assessment considering there are only 8(or 9) athletes who make any given final (save the distance events where more do) but your basically saying the majority of athletes competing for their country were not fit to make that team...


"Any athlete who makes the final has justified the spot on the team" is a sufficient condition, not a necessary condition. So it doesn't imply that those who didn't make the final didn't justify their spot on the team.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby ATK » Mon May 20, 2013 6:32 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
ATK wrote:but your basically saying the majority of athletes competing for their country were not fit to make that team...

Not only did I not say this, but I didn't intend to imply this. I guess you misinterpretted what I wrote. I don't equate lacking elite talent with being unfit. Do you remember what Lashawn Merritt did in London?

Ok I apologize for the misinterpretation, but the implication was there with the Lashawn Meritt reference.

How can you justify Merritt knew he was unfit to run. Because he pulled up 100m into the race? Because he pulled up after 300m at Monaco? Do you really feel he went out to run 100m for publicity or some other reason then him and his team genuinely thinking he can run?
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon May 20, 2013 6:57 pm

ATK wrote:How can you justify Merritt knew he was unfit to run. Because he pulled up 100m into the race? Because he pulled up after 300m at Monaco? Do you really feel he went out to run 100m for publicity or some other reason then him and his team genuinely thinking he can run?

Go back and watch the Olympics. He didn't pull up in the semifinals or final, he pulled up in the heats, and he didn't pull after 100m, he pulled up after 10-20 meters. Also, pay close attention to his reaction after he pulled up and watch his post-race interview. He didn't seem as disappointed as one would expect under such circumstances. Ato Boldon's prerace analysis was prescient. All things considered, I don't think it's plausible that he thought he was fit when he got in the starting blocks.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby ATK » Mon May 20, 2013 7:03 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
ATK wrote:How can you justify Merritt knew he was unfit to run. Because he pulled up 100m into the race? Because he pulled up after 300m at Monaco? Do you really feel he went out to run 100m for publicity or some other reason then him and his team genuinely thinking he can run?

Go back and watch the Olympics. He didn't pull up in the semifinals or final, he pulled up in the heats, and he didn't pull after 100m, he pulled up after 10-20 meters. Also, pay close attention to his reaction after he pulled up and watch his post-race interview. He didn't seem as disappointed as one would expect under such circumstances. Ato Boldon's prerace analysis was prescient. All things considered, I don't think it's plausible that he thought he was fit when he got in the starting blocks.

Your calling him shameful based on pure assumption...
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon May 20, 2013 7:10 pm

ATK wrote:Your calling him shameful based on pure assumption...

If you're asking if I have a sworn affadavit from Merritt's doctor that states that he was physically compromised when he showed up in London, the answer is no. However, I know enough about human nature and the sport of track and field to be able state with confidence that he knew he was unfit when he got in the starting blocks.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby gh » Mon May 20, 2013 7:38 pm

not sure where your confidence comes from; it's highly unlikely he would have tried full-speed running in the several weeks after his injury, instead working on general conditioning, saving the see-what-I've-got moment for the Olympics themselves.

Hindsight makes that look like the wrong decision, but it was his to make, and nobody else's.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby ATK » Mon May 20, 2013 8:16 pm

gh wrote:saving the see-what-I've-got moment for the Olympics themselves.

Exactly. I don't think he went into the rounds with 100% confidence he will win gold (only my assumption) but I would think he went in thinking, I've taken some time to heal, lets see what I can do.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon May 20, 2013 8:21 pm

gh wrote:not sure where your confidence comes from; it's highly unlikely he would have tried full-speed running in the several weeks after his injury, instead working on general conditioning, saving the see-what-I've-got moment for the Olympics themselves.

It's obvious that he didn't even find out whether he could do a start in the run-up to the Olympics which I think is shameful. Thankfully, Dominique Armold didn't use the heats of the 2007 World Championships to find out whether he could go, and I'm sure that David Payne will be forever grateful to Armold for doing the honorable thing.
gh wrote:Hindsight makes that look like the wrong decision, but it was his to make, and nobody else's.

I've never disputed the fact that it was his decision and I wouldn't want it any other way, because I absolutely abhor selection committees, and I believe that what the JAAA did to Peta-Gaye Dowdie in 2000 was even more shameful than what Merritt did.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby shivfan » Mon May 20, 2013 11:05 pm

Lord_Zanus wrote:Some interesting facts on Asafa

Has only entered one major championship meet as the wrh(07)
Has never gone into a major championship to compete as the world leader in the 100m
Has run one major final without having an injury setback during that season(04)

Now, that's very interesting....
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby DentyCracker » Mon May 20, 2013 11:53 pm

EPelle wrote:DC, you might want to revise/remove that before the boss man wakes up.

If he bans me so be it. Life goes on. Some guys just don't think before they post rubbish on here
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby DentyCracker » Mon May 20, 2013 11:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:not sure where your confidence comes from; it's highly unlikely he would have tried full-speed running in the several weeks after his injury, instead working on general conditioning, saving the see-what-I've-got moment for the Olympics themselves.

It's obvious that he didn't even find out whether he could do a start in the run-up to the Olympics which I think is shameful. Thankfully, Dominique Armold didn't use the heats of the 2007 World Championships to find out whether he could go, and I'm sure that David Payne will be forever grateful to Armold for doing the honorable thing.
gh wrote:Hindsight makes that look like the wrong decision, but it was his to make, and nobody else's.

I've never disputed the fact that it was his decision and I wouldn't want it any other way, because I absolutely abhor selection committees, and I believe that what the JAAA did to Peta-Gaye Dowdie in 2000 was even more shameful than what Merritt did.

Dowdie knew her knee was not ready. She refused all call to test the knee. JAAA have the right to ensure the best team goes out there. What GH instigated was wrong. Almost got us thrown out of the games. I'll take that shame anyday.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby DentyCracker » Tue May 21, 2013 12:09 am

Fit athletes over unfit athletes anytime. I am a big Asafa fan as everyone knows. If he isn't fit then I do not want him on the relay. If he makes the team for the individual race fine. To be honest, if I were his coach, unless I could guarantee that I could get him both 100% rehabbed and fit enough to run 9.90 basic after the trials rounds and not get hurt I would forget about trials this year and properly rehab the hamstring and target some circuit races for late in the season.Trials going to be pretty hot this year. Bolt, Nesta and Bailey-Cole are likely to be sub 9.95 by then. Need to be in 9.90 shape to be competitive then. Can he rehab and remain sharp enough. BTW I think he should have had it evaluated yesterday but haven't heard anything
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby EPelle » Tue May 21, 2013 1:29 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
ATK wrote:How can you justify Merritt knew he was unfit to run. Because he pulled up 100m into the race? Because he pulled up after 300m at Monaco? Do you really feel he went out to run 100m for publicity or some other reason then him and his team genuinely thinking he can run?

Go back and watch the Olympics. He didn't pull up in the semifinals or final, he pulled up in the heats, and he didn't pull after 100m, he pulled up after 10-20 meters. Also, pay close attention to his reaction after he pulled up and watch his post-race interview. He didn't seem as disappointed as one would expect under such circumstances. Ato Boldon's prerace analysis was prescient. All things considered, I don't think it's plausible that he thought he was fit when he got in the starting blocks.


The following recollection differs from your account.
The Daily Mail wrote:...Merritt pulled up halfway through the 400-metre heat and will not be around to defend his title.

'It's very disappointing to ... be dealing with an issue and not be able to finish the race,' [color=000000]Merritt said. '[/color] I'll regroup.'

At the 150-metre mark, Merritt started slowing down and by the time he reached the far turn, he was done, hands on his hips, for a slow walk out of the stadium.

'I thought I could get through these rounds, not at 100 per cent,' Merritt said.'I got out and got around the curve and started to feel it. I moved a little more and still felt it. I think I need more rest.' ...


If Merritt's 'selfishness' stifled the chances of a qualified alternate to gain Olympic experience, he didn't take that same route with the 4x4 as noted below:

The race starts Thursday, and Merritt's injury places the team's hopes on shaky ground.

'If I go out and really hit it in practice and still feel it, I'll let somebody else run,' he said.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... drugs.html

underlined for emphasis
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 4:14 am

DentyCracker wrote:Dowdie knew her knee was not ready. She refused all call to test the knee. JAAA have the right to ensure the best team goes out there. What GH instigated was wrong. Almost got us thrown out of the games. I'll take that shame anyday.

All you're doing is engaging in idle specualtion and conjecture and I don't accept that Dowdie and her coaches would done the wrong thing at the end. And remember, she got stripped of her spot weeks before she was due to run after Merlene Ottey threatened not to travel to Sydney to run on the relay if she didn't get a spot on the 100 team, not a couple of days before she was due to run after coaches observed her workouts and didn't like what they saw. Even other Jamaicans have admitted that Dowdie was the victiom of politics and that the JAAA wouldn't have done this if anyone besides Ottey was making this demand. I agree with gh that it should be the athlete's call since they know their body better than anyone else. You just have to hope that the athlete will do the right thing, a la Dominique Arnold. And remember, in Dowdie's case, the alternate would have already been in Sydney, unlike the situation with David Payne who had to fly to Osaka barely 24 hours before he was due to run.

Also, remember that both Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene injured themselves at the 2000 trials and neither of them competed between the trials and the Olympics, but both went on to win gold medals in Sydney. At the same Olympics, Regina Jacobs gave up her spot after she got to Sydney in time for the alternate to be flown in. That's why I believe it should always be the athlete's call, not the call of politically-motivated bureaucrats who haven't even seen the athlete practice at the site of the global championships, because I believe that Lashawn Merritt is the exception, not the rule.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby batonless relay » Tue May 21, 2013 4:31 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
DentyCracker wrote:Dowdie knew her knee was not ready. She refused all call to test the knee. JAAA have the right to ensure the best team goes out there. What GH instigated was wrong. Almost got us thrown out of the games. I'll take that shame anyday.

All you're doing is engaging in idle specualtion and conjecture and I don't accept that Dowdie and her coaches would done the wrong thing at the end. And remember, she got stripped of her spot weeks before she was due to run after Merlene Ottey threatened not to travel to Sydney to run on the relay if she didn't get a spot on the 100 team, not a couple of days before she was due to run after coaches observed her workouts and didn't like what they saw. Even other Jamaicans have admitted that Dowdie was the victiom of politics and that the JAAA wouldn't have done this if anyone besides Ottey was making this demand. I agree with gh that it should be the athlete's call since they know their body better than anyone else. You just have to hope that the athlete will do the right thing, a la Dominique Arnold. And remember, in Dowdie's case, the alternate would have already been in Sydney, unlike the situation with David Payne who had to fly to Osaka barely 24 hours before he was due to run.

Also, remember that both Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene injured themselves at the 2000 trials and neither of them competed between the trials and the Olympics, but both went on to win gold medals in Sydney. At the same Olympics, Regina Jacobs gave up her spot after she got to Sydney in time for the alternate to be flown in. That's why I believe it should always be the athlete's call, not the call of politically-motivated bureaucrats who haven't even seen the athlete practice at the site of the global championships, because I believe that Lashawn Merritt is the exception, not the rule.

Jazz, every few months you bring this up and you are wrong, have been wrong and continue to be wrong. Dead wrong! I've spoken to Dowdie about this and she said that she didn't want to test it because she didn't want them to replace her with Merlene - even though she knew that she couldn't run. HER WORDS! She was being pressured, but she KNEW that she couldn't run - and obviously the LSU coaches KNEW that she couldn't run. Payne was able to run because an athlete pulled out, something Dowdie was unwilling to do. Yes she earned the spot and should have run if she were healthy - and she would have. She wasn't.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 5:31 am

batonless relay wrote:Jazz, every few months you bring this up and you are wrong, have been wrong and continue to be wrong. Dead wrong! I've spoken to Dowdie about this and she said that she didn't want to test it because she didn't want them to replace her with Merlene - even though she knew that she couldn't run. HER WORDS! She was being pressured, but she KNEW that she couldn't run - and obviously the LSU coaches KNEW that she couldn't run. Payne was able to run because an athlete pulled out, something Dowdie was unwilling to do. Yes she earned the spot and should have run if she were healthy - and she would have. She wasn't.

You are dead wrong because your chronology is wrong. SInce I wasn't present when you had your conversation with Dowdie, I'm going stick with the incontrovertible facts. Dowdie was replaced weeks before the start of the Olympic track and field program was due to start, not a couple of days before she was due to run. Perhaps three weeks out Dowdie wasn't ready to run, but three weeks out, Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene weren't ready to run either, but no one made them prove their fitness. My point is that the timing of the decision proves that it was mostly political, and that Dowdie was just a scapegoat to accomodate Ottey's ego. You're also conveniently ignoring the politics of the situation. The reason she was replaced so soon, is because Ottey told the JAAA that she wasn't going to Sydney just to run a relay. At that point, the JAAA should have told her to stay home if that's the way she felt, but the last thing the JAAA should have done was cave in to this over-the-hill diva.

By the way, what's your take on Merritt's actions in London?
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby batonless relay » Tue May 21, 2013 6:00 am

jazzcyclist wrote:You are dead wrong because your chronology is wrong. SInce I wasn't present when you had your conversation with Dowdie, I'm going stick with the incontrovertible facts. Dowdie was replaced weeks before the start of the Olympic track and field program was due to start, not a couple of days before she was due to run. Perhaps three weeks out Dowdie wasn't ready to run, but three weeks out, Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene weren't ready to run either, but no one made them prove their fitness. My point is that the timing of the decision proves that it was mostly political, and that Dowdie was just a scapegoat to accomodate Ottey's ego. You're also conveniently ignoring the politics of the situation. The reason she was replaced so soon, is because Ottey told the JAAA that she wasn't going to Sydney just to run a relay. At that point, the JAAA should have told her to stay home if that's the way she felt, but the last thing the JAAA should have done was cave in to this over-the-hill diva.

By the way, what's your take on Merritt's actions in London?

Where did I say that it was days? :roll: You are so hell bent on making the JAAAs monsters that you've resorted to telling bald-face untruths to buttress your points? No, you're wrong and you have no incontrovertible facts, just sales pitch assumptions in the hopes that posters will believe you know what you're talking about. My "chronology" was never put forward. Dowdie would need SURGERY for what was ailing her! You're incontrovertible "facts" conveniently leave that out! Days, weeks, months...it wouldn't have mattered. She couldn't run!

Even in the first past the post system (USA) it is MY OPINION that athletes have a responsibility to "give up" the spot if they are a shell of their healthy selves. I'm not talking about aches and pains; I'm talking about not being able to perform to the level of a replacement. I think this answers the Merritt question. (assuming that the IAAF did not give countries a wild card for world champions, then I would expect the same of them - which would mean that an Anjanette Kirkland would have been wrong to keep the spot if there were only 3, instead of the 4 that the USA had)

Whether the JAAAs should have told Merlene Ottey to stay home is moot, the "over-the-hill diva" made the final. That said, the federations have a RIGHT to replace athletes, when possible, if they are unable/unwilling to perform.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby gh » Tue May 21, 2013 7:07 am

DentyCracker wrote:
EPelle wrote:DC, you might want to revise/remove that before the boss man wakes up.

If he bans me so be it. Life goes on. Some guys just don't think before they post rubbish on here


pay no attention to people trying to play cop who have no business doing so.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby EPelle » Tue May 21, 2013 7:15 am

Playing cop? Nah. No one likes the name-calling. The OP actually was posting rubbish; what they posted truly was moronic. However, didn't make them a moron. In any case, it's your playing field. Never any doubt about that. I've seen posters banned for less egregious stuff depending on your mood. Didn't want to see DC go. End of story.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby gh » Tue May 21, 2013 7:52 am

What's really at the crux of this whole debate is who "owns" the spot. I steadfastly maintain that you run/jump/throw your way onto these squads (at least in a Trials-definitive nation like the U.S.), and once you've done that, it's a piece of real property that's your to dispose of as you see fit.

If athlete B gets deprived of a chance to compete while you shlub it up, so be it. B had his chance but failed to beat you when it counted. End of story.

Having said that, when it comes to relay positions, and there's a certain amount of "country" involved (to say nothing of impacting 3 other people), I would think there's a certain obligation to step aside.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby Speedster » Tue May 21, 2013 8:08 am

gh wrote:What's really at the crux of this whole debate is who "owns" the spot. I steadfastly maintain that you run/jump/throw your way onto these squads (at least in a Trials-definitive nation like the U.S.), and once you've done that, it's a piece of real property that's your to dispose of as you see fit.

If athlete B gets deprived of a chance to compete while you shlub it up, so be it. B had his chance but failed to beat you when it counted. End of story.

Having said that, when it comes to relay positions, and there's a certain amount of "country" involved (to say nothing of impacting 3 other people), I would think there's a certain obligation to step aside.


Spot on gh, if you want Powell's spot, go and beat him to it. Thinking of the relay your point is also valid and Asafa did step aside when injured in London to allow others to race to a WR and Gold Medal.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby EPelle » Tue May 21, 2013 8:28 am

. . . As did Merritt in London as well. When it wasn't about him, but about the team.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:33 am

Merritt also had a rather better season's resume than the next athlete in, unless they were at the WL level. That alone makes is different than Dowdie; add in his prior medals and you have an even bigger difference.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 9:58 am

gh wrote:What's really at the crux of this whole debate is who "owns" the spot. I steadfastly maintain that you run/jump/throw your way onto these squads (at least in a Trials-definitive nation like the U.S.), and once you've done that, it's a piece of real property that's your to dispose of as you see fit.

If athlete B gets deprived of a chance to compete while you shlub it up, so be it. B had his chance but failed to beat you when it counted. End of story.

Amen gh! I couldn't have said it better myself. 8-)
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 10:58 am

batonless relay wrote:Where did I say that it was days? :roll: You are so hell bent on making the JAAAs monsters that you've resorted to telling bald-face untruths to buttress your points? No, you're wrong and you have no incontrovertible facts, just sales pitch assumptions in the hopes that posters will believe you know what you're talking about. My "chronology" was never put forward. Dowdie would need SURGERY for what was ailing her! You're incontrovertible "facts" conveniently leave that out! Days, weeks, months...it wouldn't have mattered. She couldn't run!

You aren't Dowdie's doctor and you don't know what you're talking about. I followed that situation pretty closely, and now you're just making stuff up. Why would so many members of the Jamaican Olympic team have been willing to picket the JAAA on TV if the situation was as you described? Certainly they would have been privy to all the inside information that you supposedly have. Also, why would her coaches have been willing to put a crippled athlete into the starting blocks? Finally, since the alternate would have already been in Sydney anyway, why couldn't the JAAA wait until the deadline for the declaration date to replace her instead of doing it weeks before her 1st-round heat?
batonless relay wrote:Even in the first past the post system (USA) it is MY OPINION that athletes have a responsibility to "give up" the spot if they are a shell of their healthy selves. I'm not talking about aches and pains; I'm talking about not being able to perform to the level of a replacement. I think this answers the Merritt question. (assuming that the IAAF did not give countries a wild card for world champions, then I would expect the same of them - which would mean that an Anjanette Kirkland would have been wrong to keep the spot if there were only 3, instead of the 4 that the USA had)

Well, at least we agree on Merritt. Obviously, the JAAA and USATF have two different systems. In the U.S., the spot is the property of the athlete, while in Jamaica, the spot is the property of the JAAA. However, I believe that even under the Jamaican system, Dowdie should have been given more latitude. I see no reason why they couldn't have allowed her to show fitness two days before her heat, which would have still allowed them to replace her with the alternate if she was unfit, but would have also given her more time to get healthy. The bottom line is that at the time the JAAA made to decision to take her spot away, there's no way they could have known with certainty that she would be unfit to compete on the day of her 1st-round heat, but there was a rush to judgement. partly for political reasons, and all we can do now is speculate on what might have been.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 11:06 am

EPelle wrote:. . . As did Merritt in London as well. When it wasn't about him, but about the team.

:? Perhaps my sarcasm detector isn't working, but I must point out that even in nations with first-pass-the-post systems like the U.S., relay spots have always been the property of the federation, not the athlete. Merrritt, who couldn't even finish his heat, didn't do anyone any favors in London.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 21, 2013 11:11 am

26mi235 wrote:Merritt also had a rather better season's resume than the next athlete in, unless they were at the WL level. That alone makes is different than Dowdie; add in his prior medals and you have an even bigger difference.

I don't see how his resume has any relevance here. This debate is about fitness, not credentials, and it's pretty obvious that the alternate could have performed better than Merritt in London.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby batonless relay » Tue May 21, 2013 11:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:You aren't Dowdie's doctor and you don't know what you're talking about. I followed that situation pretty closely, and now you're just making stuff up. Why would so many members of the Jamaican Olympic team have been willing to picket the JAAA on TV if the situation was as you described? Certainly they would have been privy to all the inside information that you supposedly have. Also, why would her coaches have been willing to put a crippled athlete into the starting blocks? Finally, since the alternate would have already been in Sydney anyway, why couldn't the JAAA wait until the deadline for the declaration date to replace her instead of doing it weeks before her 1st-round heat?

So you have to be her doctor to comment? :roll: You're not the authority on all things LSU and you're certainly not when it crosses the shores to "the land of wood and water". You're wrong; it doesn't matter how [closely you think you followed] - you don't have the facts. Jamaican team protesters apologized for their reaction to a PERCEIVED injustice. They were wrong and they admitted it, lets see if you have the character to do the same.
jazzcyclist wrote:Well, at least we agree on Merritt. Obviously, the JAAA and USATF have two different systems. In the U.S., the spot is the property of the athlete, while in Jamaica, the spot is the property of the JAAA. However, I believe that even under the Jamaican system, Dowdie should have been given more latitude. I see no reason why they couldn't have allowed her to show fitness two days before her heat,...The bottom line is that at the time the JAAA made to decision to take her spot away, there's no way they could have known with certainty that she would be unfit to compete on the day of her 1st-round heat, but there was a rush to judgement. partly for political reasons, and all we can do now is speculate on what might have been.

Should I jump up and down that I managed to agree with you? That reads really arrogant! Again, time was not the issue, health was. She was avoiding practice so that the National Team coaches would not realize that she was hurt. She EARNED her spot and the only way that she felt that she could remain an Olympian was to not practice, so she attempted to hide her injury so teh coaches wouldn't have an excuse to give her spot to Merlene (a spot that many believed, with some merit, that the JAAAs were trying to give to Merlene anyway; they may have been right, but in this case, it doesn't hold - because PGD was already hurt.). If PGD was running the times that she was running at the JA Trials in 2000, they would have told Merlene to pound sand. That's my belief. I personally believe that ALL countries should be first past the post, but that's just not realistic and it wasn't for Jamaica in 2000 (obviously in 2008, the JAAAs left VCB off the 100m team for SAF).
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby gh » Tue May 21, 2013 11:58 am

jazz/batonless... you guys are done for this thread, please. Your lengthy personal arguments have once again grown tiresome.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 21, 2013 12:36 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Merritt also had a rather better season's resume than the next athlete in, unless they were at the WL level. That alone makes is different than Dowdie; add in his prior medals and you have an even bigger difference.

I don't see how his resume has any relevance here. This debate is about fitness, not credentials, and it's pretty obvious that the alternate could have performed better than Merritt in London.


If there is a 10% chance that he will be fine and a 50% chance that he will win Gold if he is fine (plus another set of probabilities for 2nd and 3rd), then he has a 5% chance of Gold.

Enter fourth best runner. 90% chance of being fine, 1% chance of winning Gold if fine. = 0.9%.

If your the Federation you want Merritt, not a fill in. Now, it depends on the quality of the fill in. In the Dowdie case, her chances were low and her replacement might have been higher even before the conditional probability. So Dowdie: 10% of being fine, 10% if fine => 1%; replacement 90% chance of being fine, 10% chance of winning if fine => 9%.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby DentyCracker » Tue May 21, 2013 5:32 pm

jazz is wrong and batonless is right on the Dowdie issue. My Dad bristles at the mere mention of Dowdie's name. I am all for the JAAA system. 1st three past the post once qualified. Must prove fitness. This is partially because of Dowdiegate, partially because our 100m men used to regularly go off and injure themselves and turn up at C a shadow of hemselves.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 23, 2013 6:01 am

26mi235 wrote:If there is a 10% chance that he will be fine and a 50% chance that he will win Gold if he is fine (plus another set of probabilities for 2nd and 3rd), then he has a 5% chance of Gold.

Enter fourth best runner. 90% chance of being fine, 1% chance of winning Gold if fine. = 0.9%.

If your the Federation you want Merritt, not a fill in. Now, it depends on the quality of the fill in. In the Dowdie case, her chances were low and her replacement might have been higher even before the conditional probability. So Dowdie: 10% of being fine, 10% if fine => 1%; replacement 90% chance of being fine, 10% chance of winning if fine => 9%.

Since you're a math guy, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude that you're clowning me with all these arbitrary, made-up percentages that aren't in the USATF's or the JAAA's rulebook anyway. :lol:
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby Bolan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:32 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Bolan wrote:Finally! Someone with a brain and an IQ high enough to understand that my frustration is not arrogance. One thing that I realize is, the guys with the most post on this board seem to be the most inept and irrational. The dude with 14524 post need to get a life!


Frustration is not arrogance; what you seem to think is an appropriate conclusion from your frustration is what moves you in that direction.

And, I do have a life: a PhD, a teaching then professional career, family, a few PRs, a bit of officiating giving back to the sport.

What is your life like?

26mil235, why were you so harsh on me after posting the comment below earlier?
After reading Bolan's post(s) in the thread on the Monaco race, I find he has a lot to give and I hope to continue to read his posts.
To be honest I was hard on Powell after getting disappointment many times. To answer your question about what I have done, I certainly haven’t done as much as Mandela or mother Teresa but between playing video games and drinking a cold red stripe beer and some spicy jerk chicken I did manage to study at the doctorial level, embark on residency and spend my day designing treatment for cancer patients. I did manage to run a 1 min 57 sec as a 15 year old at eastern champs before I realize I was never good enough so I became a fan. :mrgreen:
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby betterthanb4 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:31 pm

If Asafa can get back in good health and run 9.80's then he'll remain in the mix when it comes to Championship finals and circuit races. He's still a crowd fave, and can pull in some good $$ so I say go for it. However, I don't have medal expectations for him :( and doubt he can get on the podium without his 2008 form reemerging.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby betterthanb4 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:51 pm

"Usain Bolt reaches out to Asafa". 'Tweets Encouragement'

http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=45965


“It is very frustrating to know that I didn’t get to finish in the top three,” Powell also said. “But that is how it goes, I have to just work on it and try and come back.”


And in a message on Twitter, Bolt sought to encourage his colleague.

“Don't give up bro.. Keep the faith..@officialasafa,” Bolt tweeted.

Bolt also sought to console hurdler Hansle Parchment who was unable to compete because of an injury he sustained during warm up for the final.

“Injuries are such a.. Sigh. Can't use the word I want to use on Sunday.. Can't imagine your pain bro.. Keep your head up @HansleParchment,” he said.


Bolt continued: “Believe me I know the pain of injuries..days like these I give even more thanks for my blessings.. God u made all this possible #grateful.”
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby Dixon » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:56 pm

I like Asafa, too bad he doesn't have Championship ability. But how many have? Tons and tons of sprinters I'd put him above.

He seems to do best when he's not running rounds. Ok, cool.

As long as promotors are paying him to run then what's the problem? Anyone into track knows what he's all about, or should by now.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby dustoff » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 pm

Dixon wrote:I like Asafa, too bad he doesn't have Championship ability. But how many have? Tons and tons of sprinters I'd put him above.

He seems to do best when he's not running rounds. Ok, cool.

As long as promotors are paying him to run then what's the problem? Anyone into track knows what he's all about, or should by now.


Exactly! The man seems happy training and competing. Most of us could only be so lucky to have the talent for that to be an option. If he is happy and his health isn't in jeopardy, I can only wish him the best and hope for him to run as long as Collins has.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby meatball » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:49 pm

i don't like to get into mudslinging on this board, i don't begrudge powell from making aliving on the pro circuitand he has had a good career, however he's not a competitor when it counts.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby dustoff » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:23 pm

meatball wrote:i don't like to get into mudslinging on this board, i don't begrudge powell from making aliving on the pro circuitand he has had a good career, however he's not a competitor when it counts.


Yeah, we get it. I think it is overstated and lies more in the fact that he isn't really fit to run fast in 4 rounds, but I don't think that should keep the man from continuing to run. He is a credit to the sport and really the first athlete of the new era of men's sprinting. Before him, sub 10 was a big deal and 9.7s seemed other worldly.
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Re: Enough Asafa!!

Postby shivfan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:22 pm

"I just need to go back to training. I have a few more races this season and just need to focus on that; I did not make it to Moscow, but I will still be competing." Powell admitted that his injury was in the back of his mind and after "feeling a slight twinge in training on Monday", was very cautious, but he said the injury was never the problem nor his psyche. "I was just unfit today," he insisted, "and I could not execute like I should; it is not mental, just physical." He further stated that he will still go to Europe and compete later on. The athlete, who will be 31 in November, would not comment too much on his long-term plans, however, and when asked about the next Olympics in Brazil in 2016, said: "If I am still alive and God's willing, we will see."


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/As ... z2XD6bndDd
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