how good was David Beckham?


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how good was David Beckham?

Postby gh » Fri May 17, 2013 7:06 am

Yes, I'm a known non-fan of soccer, but this isn't a trolling question.

Like anybody way on the outside of any sport, I basically know only what I read in the headlines, and his combo of marrying a Spice Girl and having the movie made obviously turned him into a "star" whose fame undoubtedly transcended his real place in the cosmos.

So, put it in track terms: is he a Hall of Famer?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Fri May 17, 2013 7:11 am

gh wrote:So, put it in track terms: is he a Hall of Famer?

There is no doubt he was great in set pieces. As an England fan I can think of quite a few English players who are/were better from an all round perspective.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby norunner » Fri May 17, 2013 7:15 am

In 1999 and 2001 he was second for World Player of the Year. To put it in NFL or MLB terms: Would a player be considered a hall of famer if he was MVP runner-up twice in three years ?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 17, 2013 8:00 am

norunner wrote:In 1999 and 2001 he was second for World Player of the Year. To put it in NFL or MLB terms: Would a player be considered a hall of famer if he was MVP runner-up twice in three years ?

That's it in a nutshell. He didn't achieve that for his modeling career or high-profile wife/life.
He was the best server (crossing in the ball from the flanks to teammates in scoring positions) in the game for 10 years. His corners and free kicks were absolutely world-class. He was a tireless runner who raised the level of his teammates' game.

Yeah, he was the real deal, DESPITE all the hype that tended to obscure his athletic abilities.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Vielleicht » Fri May 17, 2013 8:38 am

Almost every world-class footballer upon being asked about Beckham says he's a very good and hugely underated player, so I think he should be given more credit than by the journalists.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Fri May 17, 2013 11:42 am

Marlow wrote:
norunner wrote:In 1999 and 2001 he was second for World Player of the Year. To put it in NFL or MLB terms: Would a player be considered a hall of famer if he was MVP runner-up twice in three years ?

That's it in a nutshell. He didn't achieve that for his modeling career or high-profile wife/life.
He was the best server (crossing in the ball from the flanks to teammates in scoring positions) in the game for 10 years. His corners and free kicks were absolutely world-class. He was a tireless runner who raised the level of his teammates' game.

Yeah, he was the real deal, DESPITE all the hype that tended to obscure his athletic abilities.


Marlow is spot on. Beckham's footballing ability has often been obscured by his celebrity status, GQ model good looks, underwear billboards and his marriage. It was way more than just being fantastic at free kicks and corners, his passing ability over distance was of the highest level and he was an incredibly hard worker. He usually covered 10+km a game and was always highly motivated to win, which without doubt had a positive impact on his teammates. He wasn't just a natural, he practiced much more than the other players too, which is how he became so deadly at free kicks. There were several instances of managers trying to get rid of him but he always forced his way back in, getting back into the Real Madrid and England teams were perfect examples. His main weakness was a lack of speed, so he was never a player who was going to dribble around defenders.

In my opinion he is also an incredibly impressive ambassador for all sports, not just football; in fact, I'm hard pressed to think of any other sportsman who has been so effective at PR, rarely saying the wrong thing, and never allowing himself to be baited (ie Donovan's biography, which Donovan had to apologise for and say he was wrong). He obviously wanted to win at the Galaxy and I loved the way he turned around his difficult, injury-prone, first couple of seasons. He has always been one hell of a guy and I have total admiration for how he's conducted himself throughout his career (at least once he got his hot-head under control, and stopped getting sent off - which he did again a few weeks ago, which to me showed he still had the passion for the game.).
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 17, 2013 12:20 pm

marknhj wrote:Marlow is spot on.

Oh dear, isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?
(or maybe just a blind squirrel / acorn scenario)
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Fri May 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Marlow wrote:
marknhj wrote:Marlow is spot on.

Oh dear, isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?
(or maybe just a blind squirrel / acorn scenario)


I will admit that over the course of the past ten years I never thought you'd actually be right about something, but hey, credit where credit is due, even though a blind pig finds a truffle on occasion!
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Fri May 17, 2013 12:55 pm

marknhj wrote:His main weakness was a lack of speed

I can see this and is probably the thing that makes me not elevate him way above others. But you're right about him being tireless in midfield.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby no one » Fri May 17, 2013 3:35 pm

free kick v greece in world cup
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby gh » Fri May 17, 2013 4:34 pm

norunner wrote:In 1999 and 2001 he was second for World Player of the Year. To put it in NFL or MLB terms: Would a player be considered a hall of famer if he was MVP runner-up twice in three years ?


I'm not all that familiar with NFL rules, but for MLB, you could "easily" be runner-up twice in three years, simply because the rules for induction require that you play 10 years in the bigs.

(not that that's germane to my overall question, which has been answered nicely, so thank you all)
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby kuha » Fri May 17, 2013 6:57 pm

marknhj wrote:
Marlow wrote:
marknhj wrote:Marlow is spot on.

Oh dear, isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?
(or maybe just a blind squirrel / acorn scenario)


I will admit that over the course of the past ten years I never thought you'd actually be right about something, but hey, credit where credit is due, even though a blind pig finds a truffle on occasion!


:lol: :lol: :!:

I have always said " even a blind hog finds a few acorns"...a slight variation on this classic idea.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby no one » Fri May 17, 2013 8:03 pm

kicked a 60/70 yd goal once. was known as perhaps the best free kick guy- many in game determining situations (i.e., pressure situations), captain of Englands futbol team @ 15 yrs (unheard of) ,World Cup Penalty v Argentina june 2002, what Marlow said
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby schigh » Sat May 18, 2013 2:45 am

He is/was a specialist in free kicks and crosses. I never saw him as an all-around player, but have to admit he excelled at his specialty and that probably earns him a hall of fame vote. But I was never impressed with defensive abilities and he did have the ability to be a hot head at the most inopportune times.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat May 18, 2013 4:18 am

schigh wrote:He is/was a specialist in free kicks and crosses. I never saw him as an all-around player, but have to admit he excelled at his specialty and that probably earns him a hall of fame vote. But I was never impressed with defensive abilities and he did have the ability to be a hot head at the most inopportune times.

Well, Dennis Rodman, a one-dimensional, hot-headed basketball player, is in the hall of fame, and he was never the MVP runner-up.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby no one » Sat May 18, 2013 1:42 pm

I would say Rodman was 2 dimensional: 1) A tough gritty and often dirty defender, and 2) a nearly unsurpassed rebounder (in his era). NBA All-Defensive First Team 7 or 8 X and defensive player of year X 2 (I think). And oh, a fine fashionista and make-up artist (to include piercings and tattoo body art). Of course Beckham has those comparable artful tattoos as well. So that may put Rodman in the 5th or 6th dimension - certainly the twilight zone.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby TN1965 » Sat May 18, 2013 2:43 pm

norunner wrote:In 1999 and 2001 he was second for World Player of the Year. To put it in NFL or MLB terms: Would a player be considered a hall of famer if he was MVP runner-up twice in three years ?


Roger Maris and Dale Murphy won MVP in two straight years, and are not in the H of F. (Juan Gonzalez won two in three years.) Every player who has won MVP three times or more has been so far inducted ... except for Barry Bonds. (Likewise, every three time Cy Young Award winner except Clemens has been inducted. But there are two time CYA winners who are not.)
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 19, 2013 6:35 pm

Baseball has two leagues, half the MVPs are runner-ups by the soccer standard. Also, baseball has (2) Cy Young awards as well - four shots at the apple in a sense.

Who were the guys that beat him out for MVP? Are they players like Messi?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby schigh » Mon May 20, 2013 2:43 am

Fox Soccer Channel didn't name Beckham to their all-time Premiere League team. His replacement at ManU did make the team.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby KDFINE » Mon May 20, 2013 8:14 am

He was never as good as the hype, which would have been impossible. He was the best marketed player ever.
Great at free kicks and crosses and played for some great teams which always helps.
His petulant red card in 1998 left his team one man down and probably cost England a place in the semi-finals of the World Cup.
His record number of caps for England is inflated by brief appearances toward the end of his career just to pad the total.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Mon May 20, 2013 8:18 am

marknhj wrote:Beckham's footballing ability has often been obscured by his celebrity status


KDFINE wrote:He was never as good as the hype


Interesting . . . I'll go with my BFF, marknhj . . . :wink:
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon May 20, 2013 8:23 am

26mi235 wrote:Baseball has two leagues, half the MVPs are runner-ups by the soccer standard. Also, baseball has (2) Cy Young awards as well - four shots at the apple in a sense.

Who were the guys that beat him out for MVP? Are they players like Messi?

That's a great point. FIFA MVP's are four times more exclusive than MLB MVP's/Cy Young's. If FIFA divided up its players based on geography and position the way MLB does, Beckham would likely have a couple of MVP's.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Mon May 20, 2013 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby kamikaze7 » Mon May 20, 2013 10:04 am

Beckham was incredibly good at delivering accurate passes be it from dead ball situations or in the run of play. He is probably the best assist man if his generation. From that perspective I would compare him to John Stockton.

Beckham was not super talented, he did not have great athletic gifts, he did not have great moves. he was not fast. But he had laser like precision in his passes, crosses, free-kicks and corners. The product of hundreds of hard work in the practice field since he was in his teens.

Others are more talented but their lack of precision renders them less effective. English midfielders like Gerrard, Barnes and Gazza had more talent than Beckham. But Beckham was one of the most effective players ever.

Plus he was a genuine humanitarian and good representative for English football. Much of the bile directed at him was jealousy.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Mon May 20, 2013 10:13 am

In sum, he was the guy you picked first for YOUR team at recess . . . :D
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon May 20, 2013 10:21 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Beckham was not super talented, he did not have great athletic gifts, he did not have great moves. he was not fast. But he had laser like precision in his passes, crosses, free-kicks and corners. The product of hundreds of hard work in the practice field since he was in his teens.

Others are more talented but their lack of precision renders them less effective. English midfielders like Gerrard, Barnes and Gazza had more talent than Beckham. But Beckham was one of the most effective players ever.

This sounds like a description of Larry Bird. As an athlete, Larry Bird wasn't even in the same class as Dominique Wilkins, but as a basketball player, Wilkins wasn't in the same class as Bird.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby bambam » Mon May 20, 2013 10:33 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:Beckham was not super talented, he did not have great athletic gifts, he did not have great moves. he was not fast. But he had laser like precision in his passes, crosses, free-kicks and corners. The product of hundreds of hard work in the practice field since he was in his teens.

Others are more talented but their lack of precision renders them less effective. English midfielders like Gerrard, Barnes and Gazza had more talent than Beckham. But Beckham was one of the most effective players ever.

This sounds like a description of Larry Bird. As an athlete, Larry Bird wasn't even in the same class as Dominique Wilkins, but as a basketball player, Wilkins wasn't in the same class as Bird.


Good, and accurate, comparison
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Mon May 20, 2013 10:35 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Beckham was incredibly good at delivering accurate passes be it from dead ball situations or in the run of play. He is probably the best assist man if his generation. From that perspective I would compare him to John Stockton.

Beckham was not super talented, he did not have great athletic gifts, he did not have great moves. he was not fast. But he had laser like precision in his passes, crosses, free-kicks and corners. The product of hundreds of hard work in the practice field since he was in his teens.

Others are more talented but their lack of precision renders them less effective. English midfielders like Gerrard, Barnes and Gazza had more talent than Beckham. But Beckham was one of the most effective players ever.

Plus he was a genuine humanitarian and good representative for English football. Much of the bile directed at him was jealousy.

Excellent summary.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby TN1965 » Mon May 20, 2013 11:56 am

26mi235 wrote:Baseball has two leagues, half the MVPs are runner-ups by the soccer standard. Also, baseball has (2) Cy Young awards as well - four shots at the apple in a sense.

Who were the guys that beat him out for MVP? Are they players like Messi?


Rivaldo and Figo.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:59 pm

So he was beaten out by the best, not someone with a great year when no one else shined too much?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Mon May 20, 2013 3:29 pm

bambam wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:Beckham was not super talented, he did not have great athletic gifts, he did not have great moves. he was not fast. But he had laser like precision in his passes, crosses, free-kicks and corners. The product of hundreds of hard work in the practice field since he was in his teens.

Others are more talented but their lack of precision renders them less effective. English midfielders like Gerrard, Barnes and Gazza had more talent than Beckham. But Beckham was one of the most effective players ever.

This sounds like a description of Larry Bird. As an athlete, Larry Bird wasn't even in the same class as Dominique Wilkins, but as a basketball player, Wilkins wasn't in the same class as Bird.


Good, and accurate, comparison


Agreed and jazz's analogy with Bird is a good one. And of course, "talent" isn't limited to spectacularly running around people. Becks passing accuracy and shooting prowess were pretty significant "talents" in themselves. I've always thought his naysayers were simply brimming over with envy at a guy who pretty much has it all.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Vielleicht » Mon May 20, 2013 11:34 pm

26mi235 wrote:So he was beaten out by the best, not someone with a great year when no one else shined too much?

Indeed, both Rivaldo and Figo are all-time greats; and given the rules of the FIFA World POY, it usually requires a lot of accumulated reputation for a player to win this award, since it was voted by coaches and captains of national teams who might not have so much time to care about footballers not in the same region as they themselves were playing in. The Ballon d'Or, the other then prestigous award voted by journalists, was more about the actual performance of the year by footballers. They have however been merged into FIFA Ballon d'Or since 2010 which I consider a shame, for while they were separated they represented different tastes and values that are interesting to compare.

To stay germane to the topic, Beckham placed 2nd in the ranking of the Ballon d'Or in 1999 too, and in 2001 he was 4th.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Rog » Tue May 21, 2013 1:33 am

However good Beckham was at football, his main focus has been on marketing for many years. These days he's all image - the top-flight footballer who hasn't played top-flight football in the UK for years, the married family man who is rarely seen in public with his wife but who is constantly photographed with his kids, which certainly supports the image. Unfortunately there are those persistent reports of affairs, and speculation about that relationship with Tom Cruise...

To me Beckham is Britain's answer to the Kardashians, a modern celebrity for whom everything has a monetary value, including his children. In the UK there's another Man Utd player who has just retired by the name of Paul Scholes, who Americans may not have heard of, but who probably has at least as much credibility as a legend - he just doesn't do PR. And good for him!

If like me you can't stand David Beckham, here's what a comic news website had to say on the story:

"DAVID Beckham continued to play professional football from time to time after leaving Manchester United, it has emerged.

The 1998 World Cup controversy left United in 2003 to become a haircut, but he has revealed he also played ‘on and off’ for the Spanish team, Real Madrid.

Beckham took Britain by surprise yesterday by announcing that he had not retired from football until now.

He said: “I would turn out for Madrid maybe once a month, when I wasn’t trying to reinvent the underpant.

“I went to Spain because it’s a great environment for underpant research scientists. After four years I had perfected male knickers and it was time for new challenges involving money.”

Beckham said he then played for an experimental football team in Los Angeles.

He added: “I moved to LA because it was invented for people like me. I started playing for the local team after realising that if I did not stay in shape I would have been overpowered by Tom Cruise.

“To this day I fear he will leap out of the dark and wrestle me to the ground.”

The odyssey of self-discovery also took him to Tibet, the depths of the Amazon rainforest and the sacred site of Uluru in Australia, as he sought out ancient and mystical places to make adverts for Adidas.

Beckham, who historians say was a ‘right-sided midfielder’, also spent periods in Milan and Paris so that his wife could learn about clothes."

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/spo ... 3051769101
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 21, 2013 3:55 am

Rog wrote:If like me you can't stand David Beckham

As noted above, you're just jealous of a guy who had it all.
The Kardashian analogy is empty. Beckham was a great athlete who served his country and clubs very well. I have never been able to discern a single meaningful contribution by the Kardashians.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby kamikaze7 » Tue May 21, 2013 4:35 am

Sometime around 2003, the English national team visited South Africa upon which they were invited to visit Nelson Mandela. Paul Scholes and others declined while Beckham led the team to visit Mandela. Not only that but Beckham spent the entire trip visiting orphan children sanctuaries and doing other charity work. That episode told me everything I needed to know with regard to Scholes vs Beckham and who is a good ambassador for England.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Rog » Tue May 21, 2013 6:19 am

Marlow wrote:
Rog wrote:If like me you can't stand David Beckham

As noted above, you're just jealous of a guy who had it all.
The Kardashian analogy is empty. Beckham was a great athlete who served his country and clubs very well. I have never been able to discern a single meaningful contribution by the Kardashians.


Definitely not jealous. Just a completely different kind of person. He's a moneygrabber and I'm all about zen :D

Seriously, there are a lot of people in the UK who don't like him. He has a certain image that is constantly rammed home through the media, but there's plenty of stuff that gets through (the affairs, the lack of time actually spent with his wife, the way he's always using his kids for photo opportunities) that suggests the image is a false one.

It's the phoniness that I can't stand. If you disagree with me though, that's fine.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 21, 2013 6:23 am

Rog wrote:I'm all about zen :D
It's the phoniness that I can't stand.

Zen people don't label others phonies, and they certainly don't harbor ill will towards others! :D

#4 in the Eightfold Path:
Right Speech - Speaking the truth in a helpful and compassionate way.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Pego » Tue May 21, 2013 7:11 am

I know next to nothing about zen (don't care to learn), but I also instinctively dislike people that cannot live without having their name in the headlines constantly (deserved or not).
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 21, 2013 7:22 am

Pego wrote: I also instinctively dislike people that cannot live without having their name in the headlines constantly (deserved or not).

Depends on whether they really are seeking that or the media is just obsessed with them. Does Jennifer Aniston want herself on every tabloid? I'll guess not.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Tue May 21, 2013 7:26 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Sometime around 2003, the English national team visited South Africa upon which they were invited to visit Nelson Mandela. Paul Scholes and others declined while Beckham led the team to visit Mandela. Not only that but Beckham spent the entire trip visiting orphan children sanctuaries and doing other charity work. That episode told me everything I needed to know with regard to Scholes vs Beckham and who is a good ambassador for England.


I had a team at the SoCal Special Olympics Championships in Long Beach about three or four years ago and he showed up with his kids. Low profile (relative, of course) and without a posse of minders, publicists or press. He was a marvelous ambassador for England and for football during his time in LA.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Pego » Tue May 21, 2013 8:01 am

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote: I also instinctively dislike people that cannot live without having their name in the headlines constantly (deserved or not).

Depends on whether they really are seeking that or the media is just obsessed with them. Does Jennifer Aniston want herself on every tabloid? I'll guess not.


I don't know about JA, but I know a few athletes that crave media attention. I'll leave it at that.
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