crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races


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crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby aaronk » Wed May 15, 2013 10:43 pm

In the Penn Relays 4X800 for HS girls, Columbia (NJ) beat Edwin Allen (Jam) by a hair in 8:56.
But what struck me was the crazy split an E.A. girl ran.
Can't remember which leg, or her name, but the announcer said she ran 55 for her first lap.
I think she ended in 2:07, so her last lap was just 72.

Ever hear of a crazy split like that before....55 and 72??

There have been some fast opening splits before.....think Filbert Bayi!......or even DR with his 48+.....or Alysia Montano with her 56 openers.

Has anyone ever opened a mile race (or 1500) with a sub-1:50??
The first 2 laps, not the last two!
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby LopenUupunut » Wed May 15, 2013 11:19 pm

aaronk wrote:Has anyone ever opened a mile race (or 1500) with a sub-1:50??
The first 2 laps, not the last two!
Certainly, but that's not too crazy when you consider 1:50 for 2 laps is 3:26.25 pace.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby aaronk » Wed May 15, 2013 11:20 pm

Still can't find the same video I saw earlier, but a different video of the same race (NOT a good video...from someone in the stands!) shows it was the 3rd leg for Edwin Allen.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby nevetsllim » Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 am

One of the fastest first laps I remember seeing in an 800m race was Wilson Kipketer's when he ran his 1:41.24 world record in Zurich in 1997. The pacemaker went through in 48.10 and Kipketer was right on his heels going through the bell. He must have gone through in about 48.5.

It's strange because I can think of quite a few women's 800m races in major champs where the first lap has been covered in 55.0 (55.04 in Sydney, 55.05 in Montreal) but I'm not sure there's ever been a sub-55 first lap in a big race. I remember reading about an 800m race in Hengelo from the early 1990s where the pacemaker went through in 54.8 (I think...) but I'm not sure about the split of the racers.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby EPelle » Thu May 16, 2013 3:06 am

There was a DL meet a couple of seasons back where the m-1.500 went out at suicidal pace. Neither of the two front-running guys broke the WR. I don't recall which meet it was, and don't know on which thread it was previously mentioned.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby vencio2 » Thu May 16, 2013 4:16 am

What was remarkable was that Fuchsova hung on for a PB after that 55.04 start in Sydney.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby br » Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 am

Stockholm 1500m, 1981. James Robinson passed 800m in 1:49.18, with Seb Coe 7 meters behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-W7B483K8
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby DrJay » Thu May 16, 2013 8:02 am

Tommy Martin (Evansville, HS '77) set the Indiana state record in the 880 in 1977, 1:50.2 when converted to 800 time, just broken by Austin Mudd in 2011. In the Junior Olympic national championship meet in 1977, Martin went out in 49 and came back in a very painful 62 or so, for a 1:51, if I recall correctly. Runner's World had a vivid description of how terrible he looked the last 100m.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby jlt » Thu May 16, 2013 9:38 am

EPelle wrote:There was a DL meet a couple of seasons back where the m-1.500 went out at suicidal pace. Neither of the two front-running guys broke the WR. I don't recall which meet it was, and don't know on which thread it was previously mentioned.


I'm pretty sure you're referring to Golden Gala in I think 2007, the pacemaker ran 51.9 and Komen and Ramzi (hate even mentioning him) were all over the back of him. The third lap was slow and they kicked home both running 3:29.

But my favourite was Ingolstadt, May 2001. Japheth Kimutai and Benjamin Kipkurui had been training in Tuebingen for some weeks. This was their first race and Ben was super-keen (over keen as it turned out) to run a fast 1500. The pacemaker had pulled out so Kimutai agreed (after winning the 800 earlier) to pace for him. There was a big field and the customary scramble for place the first 100.....but Ben was soon shouting at Japheth ("faster faster") and pushing him in the back after 150. I was at the start looking with horror at my stopwatch..........they passed 200 in 24-flat and 400 in 49-high (!!!!!!!). Ben was right on him looking a million bucks but overlooking the fact he had nearly three laps to go. They passed 800 in 1:48-high as Kimutai dropped out. Ben forged on but was in all sorts of trouble at 1200 (I think he did 64-65 for the third lap) but still had a 30+m lead. The last 100 was agony, there were plenty of teeth on display but not much kneelift but they only caught him with 20-30m to go! A European won (swiss?), my steepler Misoi was 2nd in 3:40.95 and poor old Ben was 3rd in 3:41.10.

It was some race! Actually incredibly exciting. The crowd loved it; people were in hysterics. Of course they all blamed Kimutai, he was furious and said he'd never pace again.

Great fun on the circuit.....
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby EPelle » Thu May 16, 2013 9:45 am

Brilliant recap! Cheers for that!
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby gibson » Thu May 16, 2013 11:24 am

we can watch sit and kick races.
paced races.
surging.
all good.

then you have outrageous races.
like bayi in christchurch.
or komen in his 3k record.
or having a pacer go sub 23 seconds pacing an 800 wr.
or running a 14 min 5k in the heat in the middle of an og marathon.
or more often crash and burn.

give me more of that crazy.
i like gladiators laying it on the line.
i'm sure you do too.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby Master Po » Thu May 16, 2013 11:38 am

Agree w gibson^

All these varieties of racing have their appeal, but really memorable for me are those "all or nothing" gambles, especially in championship settings. I have only seen Bayi's Christchurch race on video but it is one of the most memorable ever, imo. Also, Wanjiru in Beijing, Samuelson in LA.

And, in non-championship settings, Moorcroft's 13:00.41 is a great example.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby lovetorun » Thu May 16, 2013 12:08 pm

Master Po wrote:Agree w gibson^

All these varieties of racing have their appeal, but really memorable for me are those "all or nothing" gambles, especially in championship settings. I have only seen Bayi's Christchurch race on video but it is one of the most memorable ever, imo. Also, Wanjiru in Beijing, Samuelson in LA.

And, in non-championship settings, Moorcroft's 13:00.41 is a great example.


And 18 year old Gerry Lindgren did it to the Russians in 1964 meet ...we stood on our feet cheering for the final 12 laps of that 10,000m race as he steadily pulled away from the stunned Soviet vets. :)
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:44 pm

Not on the same level but my high school had a race like the thread. Paul Bannano (spelling???) was a good sprint, finishing fifth? in CIF his junior year in 48.4 (440yds). He also ran some cross country in the fall. Our first track meet of the year was against a school a division lower (vague memory) that had the cross country champion (CIF, they did not do state then, I do not think). So they decided to race them against each other in the 880. Paul took off very fast and came though in 54-flat; his second 440 of 63-flat was more painful. He did win the race - in 1:57.0, which was one of the leading times (LA Times used to always publish the marks list weekly, I think). [circa 1966]

Unfortunately in his second meet he ran a 49.0 440, won the 180h or 220, and had a 23-6 LJ. After one of the other events he came back to take another attempt and reached for the board, pulling his hamstring badly. He was never really the same afterwards
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby Blues » Thu May 16, 2013 1:11 pm

aaronk wrote:In the Penn Relays 4X800 for HS girls, Columbia (NJ) beat Edwin Allen (Jam) by a hair in 8:56.
But what struck me was the crazy split an E.A. girl ran.
Can't remember which leg, or her name, but the announcer said she ran 55 for her first lap.
I think she ended in 2:07, so her last lap was just 72.

Ever hear of a crazy split like that before....55 and 72??



It's possible that the order of athletes may have had something to do with the unusually fast first lap by the third Edwin Allen runner... For the championship at Penn, Edwin Allen of Jamaica chose the strategy of using their stud athlete, 18 yr old Marleena Eubanks (2:06.92 800, Jamaican HS 1500m champ 4:35.10) on the third leg, and using 14 year old Asshani Robb (2:14 800m) on anchor... Possibly Eubanks knew she had to give Robb as large a lead as possible and went out a little fast because of that. Despite an unusually fast first lap, Eubanks' 4x8 split (2:07.4) was pretty close to her 2013 open 800m season best (2:07.79).

Olivia Baker's 2:09.90 anchor for Columbia, NJ was enough to overtake the young Edwin Allen anchor who split 2:17.1, giving Columbia an 8:56.37 to 8:56.86 win.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby mcgato » Thu May 16, 2013 1:25 pm

I was at Penn this year, and that girls 4x8 was crazy. Edwin Allen was a ways behind at the second exchange (looks like 4.4 seconds), and their runner went out at a full sprint. She passed the two leaders as they hit the backstretch for the first time. As she passed the leader, the leader dropped the baton. I'm not sure if the EA runner bumped the leader or if the leader was startled into dropping it.

I think the announcer said the first lap was 55.7. I actually expected her to fall on her face on the second lap, but she held it together. The anchor from Columbus had a great leg. Going down the backstretch on the final lap, she had a laser focus on first and her face said that she would pass her.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby kuha » Thu May 16, 2013 1:27 pm

I've mentioned before Jason Pyrah's exciting 1600 at the 1987 (?) Missouri state HS meet. He went out in 56 and 1:56...hanging on for 4:03 and change, as I recall.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby Jon » Thu May 16, 2013 1:30 pm

aaronk wrote:Alysia Montano with her 56 openers
Yep, at least year's US Trials she ran 55.65/64.61 (2:00.25) in the semis, then 55.88/63.21 (1:59.08) in the final. When she set her 1:57.34 PB, it was off the back of a slower first lap (around 56.8-ish).

But some people never learn. Just look at Britain's answer to Montano, Marilyn Okoro. This was the most spectacular of her tactical cock-ups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc8iysji2Fk
Splits - 27.68, 56.10, 1:26.39, 2:03.30 (crawling over the line - literally).
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby EPelle » Thu May 16, 2013 1:52 pm

kuha wrote:I've mentioned before Jason Pyrah's exciting 1600 at the 1987 (?) Missouri state HS meet. He went out in 56 and 1:56...hanging on for 4:03 and change, as I recall.

Yes, he ran a similar solo at GWI: 56-1.56-2.56-4.04y (or thereabouts). Some amazing stories never get old.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby deanouk » Thu May 16, 2013 2:50 pm

That 1:49.18 split was not for Robinson in that Stockholm 1500 in 81, it was Coe's split.
I have the race on dvd and uploaded it onto YouTube.
Robinson went through 400 in 51.5! with Coe already 7m back in 52.4. The splits given were for Coe, not the leader. Both Robinson's and Coe's splits for that race were also published in T&fn at the time. Robinson went through 800 in 1:47.5, Coe in 1:49.1.
Coe' first 2 laps are the fastest I've ever heard of in an elite 1500m. That he could basically front run a 3:31.9 that day and miss the world record by just half a second, off such diabolical pacing, underlines that he should have ruptured 3:30.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby KDFINE » Thu May 16, 2013 3:24 pm

I don't think any discussion of crazy splits can really be complete without mentioning Tom Byers.
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby br » Fri May 17, 2013 6:14 am

KDFINE wrote:I don't think any discussion of crazy splits can really be complete without mentioning Tom Byers.

If you're referring to the pacemaking job he did in the '81 Bieslett Games in Oslo, the splits weren't that crazy. Yes, he was far ahead of the field he was pacing, but none of the notables (Ovett, Scott, Wessinghage, etc...) were willing to go with him. 57.52, 1:54.83, 2:53.09, 3:39.01.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_WpclPgTo
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Re: crazy splits in 800 and 1500/mile races

Postby KDFINE » Fri May 17, 2013 7:05 am

I just had a vague recollection of him going out fast and trying to win the race, not just a pacemaking effort for others.
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