Baby O: Be Afraid


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Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 am

TBO's 20 year old sister Victoria ran a massive pb of 52.64 at the weekend improving from 54.17 set as a 17 year old in 2010

She was out all of last year with what i can only assume were injuries

In 2004 as a 20 year old (when she switched full time to track from netball) TBO improved from 54.21 down to 50.50 and the rest is history

Keep an eye on this one and BE AFRAID :D :D
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby jjimbojames » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:19 am

Given they share the same coach, and her usual peaking routine, I would say we should expect that time to drop some more by the end of the season, all being well...
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:21 am

jjimbojames wrote:Given they share the same coach, and her usual peaking routine, I would say we should expect that time to drop some more by the end of the season, all being well...


My thoughts exactly. This season will be a big indicator if Vicky O is as good as her older sister. Realistically the 400m has improved since the 2004-2008 period and if VO is on par with CO she'll need to run 50 something or less this year to be regarded as a serious contender in future.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby justrunfast » Wed May 01, 2013 2:55 am

eldanielfire wrote:
jjimbojames wrote:Given they share the same coach, and her usual peaking routine, I would say we should expect that time to drop some more by the end of the season, all being well...


My thoughts exactly. This season will be a big indicator if Vicky O is as good as her older sister. Realistically the 400m has improved since the 2004-2008 period and if VO is on par with CO she'll need to run 50 something or less this year to be regarded as a serious contender in future.


She isnt on par with CO yet, why has she got to run 50. or below this year to be regarded as a serious contender for the future???....if she runs 51 that will be good enough progression for this year
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Wed May 01, 2013 4:49 am

justrunfast wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
jjimbojames wrote:Given they share the same coach, and her usual peaking routine, I would say we should expect that time to drop some more by the end of the season, all being well...


My thoughts exactly. This season will be a big indicator if Vicky O is as good as her older sister. Realistically the 400m has improved since the 2004-2008 period and if VO is on par with CO she'll need to run 50 something or less this year to be regarded as a serious contender in future.


She isnt on par with CO yet, why has she got to run 50. or below this year to be regarded as a serious contender for the future???....if she runs 51 that will be good enough progression for this year


This ^^
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby ldnbloke » Wed May 01, 2013 5:57 am

I attended the LOUGHBOROUGH early 2004 meet. This was the first I saw and heard of TBO. Impressed me big time and lo and behold... :)
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Ref » Thu May 02, 2013 3:49 am

Agree that it would be easy to hype this performance prematurely.

Also, it's sometimes easy to forget that Christine Ohuruogu's great successes haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level. On times, she's actually ranked 3rd all-time in the UK over 400m (40th in the world AT). Kathy Cook's 1984 OG bronze was faster than both CO's OG gold and silver runs; she unfortunately had faster opponents.

So let's hold fire at least until VO takes the family record.
8-)
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Gabriella » Thu May 02, 2013 6:09 am

Ref wrote:Also, it's sometimes easy to forget that Christine Ohuruogu's great successes haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level. On times, she's actually ranked 3rd all-time in the UK over 400m (40th in the world AT). Kathy Cook's 1984 OG bronze was faster than both CO's OG gold and silver runs; she unfortunately had faster opponents.



Silly post. The early 1980's was a different era in women's sprinting and UK sprinting.

Besides, CO's 2008 win was in a time that would have seen her medal in 2004, 2000, 1992, & 1988. She misses a medal in 84 (4th) and would have been 6th in 96.

It's not just about the Olympics; we have seen 13 World championshsips and Ohuruguo would have medalled in 12 of those (only missing out in that crazy 83 final) and she would have struck gold 5 times (93, 97, 99, 01, 07), 3 times silver (87, 95, 05) and 4 times bronze (91, 03, 09, 11).

Anyway, it's simplistic to just compare a Games just on times because track and conditions can vary greatly. I'm fairly certain London 2012 would have been faster had that race been run in Atlanta or Barcelona, for example.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Gabriella » Thu May 02, 2013 6:51 am

One thing we surely have to applaud with CO is her ability to peak at the right time. I know some of us have gone on about this many times before on many threads, but her ability to run a PB or SB in every major champs is amazeballs (as flump would say)

Cast your mind back to last year whe she started in decent but not outstanding form. She was competitive in her early GP races but not dominant, then, BOOM, the London GP saw her run down Montsho in the pouring rain, she set a SB and was ready for London. She cruised through the rounds and so nearly defended her title! A better lane draw or starting her run for home 5-10m earlier and who knows what might have been! Either way the critics who said she was 'lucky' in 07/08 were well and truly silenced and I think the world elite, some of whom also disregarded her as a threat, fully accept her ability and challenge now.

I really do hope this 50.4 relay leg (which, let's face it could have again been better/faster had she not tried to go inside of Trotter) is a sign that in 2013 she'll be in her best form yet. I think she will be very motivated after London and her DQ in Daegu.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby John G » Thu May 02, 2013 7:46 am

[quote="GabriellaAnyway, it's simplistic to just compare a Games just on times because track and conditions can vary greatly. I'm fairly certain London 2012 would have been faster had that race been run in Atlanta or Barcelona, for example.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. It was positively chilly that night in the stadium and I think her run was far better than what she produced in Osaka.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 am

I'd be very happy to see Baby O run 51 something this year. Let's not get carried away
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Flumpy » Thu May 02, 2013 12:56 pm

Gabriella wrote:Her ability to run a PB or SB in every major champs is amazeballs (as flump would say)


I've never used that expression in my life :?
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Ref » Fri May 03, 2013 2:01 am

The early 1980's was a different era in women's sprinting and UK sprinting.

Besides, CO's 2008 win was in a time that would have seen her medal in 2004, 2000, 1992, & 1988. She misses a medal in 84 (4th) and would have been 6th in 96.

It's not just about the Olympics; we have seen 13 World championshsips and Ohuruguo would have medalled in 12 of those (only missing out in that crazy 83 final) and she would have struck gold 5 times (93, 97, 99, 01, 07), 3 times silver (87, 95, 05) and 4 times bronze (91, 03, 09, 11).


OK, I'll try to mitigate my silliness by elaborating on what I was thinking. There are three sentences in the part you quoted: I think that the second and third are not at all controversial, as they are simply matters of fact. So I won't address those further.

My contention was that:
Also, it's sometimes easy to forget that Christine Ohuruogu's great successes haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level.


I still think that this is easy to forget: CO's golds and silvers haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level, and I'm comparing specifically to "nowadays" - in fact, I looked at the last decade of global finals in order to come to that conclusion.

Of course, I haven't said anything silly or otherwise about medals in general, or bronze medals in particular. I was intending to compare CO's gold performances at global games in this day and age to other gold performances, and similarly with her silver performance. Nothing more or less than that. I have a note of the data that I looked at. I gathered that data in a bit of a hurry and I'm quite willing to accept that I may have erred; but from what I could see, and forming the basis of my comment, there have been 8 global 400m finals in the last decade, of which:

  • Gold: CO has two, all 6 of the others were won in faster times
  • Silver: CO has one, 6 of the other 7 went to faster times (the exception was Sanya Richards in 2005!)

So in the last decade, CO's times - and times was all I ever mentioned, no inference about other factors should be drawn - would not have won the medal they won in 13 of the other 14 observations.

That's all I was saying, nothing earth-shattering or even opinionated, just a comment on the data.
:?
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Fri May 03, 2013 4:30 am

I think we can all agree that TBO's style of running is not to run fast but to win races. I'm sure she's worth a good deal more than 49.6 and considering she's said she will race a lot more on the circuit this season and is going to experiment going out faster maybe we'll see what she can do :D
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Fri May 03, 2013 4:37 am

She's running in Kingston tomorrow presumably against the top JAM girls amongst others.

It will be very interesting to see how she does this early in the season, last year the came 3rd in 50.93 which we were all very pleased with, hoping for an improvement and looking for a different race plan
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby John G » Fri May 03, 2013 5:40 am

Ref wrote: I still think that this is easy to forget: CO's golds and silvers haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level, and I'm comparing specifically to "nowadays" - in fact, I looked at the last decade of global finals in order to come to that conclusion.


Your original post wasn't at all 'silly', Ref. I suspect that on the subject of The Big O, over a pint or nice cup of tea we'd all be furiously agreeing: she's a great athlete with an amazing ability to peak, who could probably run a few tenths faster than she has. However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Flumpy » Fri May 03, 2013 7:28 am

mump boy wrote:She's running in Kingston tomorrow presumably against the top JAM girls amongst others.

It will be very interesting to see how she does this early in the season, last year the came 3rd in 50.93 which we were all very pleased with, hoping for an improvement and looking for a different race plan


There is usually about a 1 second differential between her relay and open times, with the relay being slower :?

Going by her leg at Penn we can safely assume that her run tomorrow will be somewhere around 49.40 :mrgreen:
Last edited by Flumpy on Fri May 03, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby justrunfast » Fri May 03, 2013 7:35 am

CO medals havent been in times that normally would win gold/sliver but you can only beat who is there on the day what does this say about everyone else??
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Flumpy » Fri May 03, 2013 7:39 am

John G wrote:However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400


To be honest I think she and the rest of the world's 400m women (Sanya included) are lucky that Nicola Sanders has been almost permanently injured since 2008.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Gabriella » Fri May 03, 2013 8:27 am

Ref wrote:My contention was that Also, it's sometimes easy to forget that Christine Ohuruogu's great successes haven't generally been in times that would normally win gold/silver at world level.


But they have though. Out of 13 World Championships she would have won gold or silver at 8 of them. And why are you only looking at gold and silver? Why not bronze?

Ref wrote:I'm comparing specifically to "nowadays" - in fact, I looked at the last decade of global finals in order to come to that conclusion. I was intending to compare CO's gold performances at global games in this day and age to other gold performances, and similarly with her silver performance.


What is 'nowadays'? The last decade? Why? But she has actually won 2 x gold and 1 x silver 'nowadays', so the fact that is she can beat whoever is around 'nowadays'. And if we look beyond 'nowadays', she'd have won gold or silver in EVERY world championships from 93 to 01.

John G wrote: However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400
[/quote]

Really? Merry and Fenton competed in the late 90s and early 00's....CO's 'times', if that is all you guys want to focus on, would have won 99 & 01, two world championships that Merry and Fenton both competed in.

This pure focus on times of winning Games is stupid. One track is different to another. Conditions are completely different in different cities and countries. Programmes differ in different championships. Who is to say Williams-Darlings Athens win in 49.4 is actually better then CO's Beijing win in 49.6? The bottom line is CO is a fantastic competitior that has proven herself to win when it matters. She has beaten women with far superior PBs, some of whom have nearly 1 sec over her (SRR) or half a second (Krivoshapka).
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 03, 2013 9:34 am

Flumpy wrote:To be honest I think she and the rest of the world's 400m women (Sanya included) are lucky that Nicola Sanders has been almost permanently injured since 2008.


And If you put Sanya in that same condition, all others are running for second, as none of them have struck be as good candidates for the 48s on a consistent basis.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Flumpy » Fri May 03, 2013 9:54 am

Why would I put Sanya in the same condition?
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 03, 2013 10:02 am

She has not been healthy during this period either, and when she has been healthy she has rarely lost.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Fri May 03, 2013 10:10 am

mump boy wrote:I think we can all agree that TBO's style of running is not to run fast but to win races. I'm sure she's worth a good deal more than 49.6 and considering she's said she will race a lot more on the circuit this season and is going to experiment going out faster maybe we'll see what she can do :D


That's perfectly put. The only Athlete who IMO opinion can clearly outright beat Ohuruogu at her best I also think Christine can go faster, last year she basically admitted she resisted her coaches pressure to run a better type of race until half way through the season and we saw Chrissie beat the world champion and get a silver medal in an Olympic final race some thought she could have won. All that after a few poor years with a lack of luck.

I'm excited to see where she will be at this year.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Fri May 03, 2013 10:13 am

Flumpy wrote:
John G wrote:However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400


To be honest I think she and the rest of the world's 400m women (Sanya included) are lucky that Nicola Sanders has been almost permanently injured since 2008.


TBO clearly beat Sanders in 2007 when Sanders was at her peak. I'm not sure Nicola Sanders has shown she would have been much better than that. I really hope she has recovered and has a great year though. A Sanders-Child-Ohuruogu-Shakes Drayton team would be a big medal contender given our hurdles girls recent form.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby jjimbojames » Fri May 03, 2013 10:29 am

eldanielfire wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
John G wrote:However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400


To be honest I think she and the rest of the world's 400m women (Sanya included) are lucky that Nicola Sanders has been almost permanently injured since 2008.


TBO clearly beat Sanders in 2007 when Sanders was at her peak. I'm not sure Nicola Sanders has shown she would have been much better than that. I really hope she has recovered and has a great year though. A Sanders-Child-Ohuruogu-Shakes Drayton team would be a big medal contender given our hurdles girls recent form.

Clearly beat? :? It was damn close, and I'd say neither girl left everything on the track that day. I don't think any of her PBs represent her true ability
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby justrunfast » Fri May 03, 2013 10:35 am

eldanielfire wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
John G wrote:However, even at her best, she wouldn't have won a gold if up against Perec, Freeman, Fenton, Guevara, Williams-Darling or Richardson at their respective bests (which I think was the thrust of your post). Personally, I don't think she's have beaten Merry or Cook either in the UK Fantasy 400


To be honest I think she and the rest of the world's 400m women (Sanya included) are lucky that Nicola Sanders has been almost permanently injured since 2008.


TBO clearly beat Sanders in 2007 when Sanders was at her peak. I'm not sure Nicola Sanders has shown she would have been much better than that. I really hope she has recovered and has a great year though. A Sanders-Child-Ohuruogu-Shakes Drayton team would be a big medal contender given our hurdles girls recent form.



You think Sanders was at her peak in 07???? :lol: :lol: :lol: she hasnt ran any quicker since because of really bad disk problems in her lower back she deffo did not peak she was 25/26! did you watch the 2007 final??? it was almost even CO ran 49.61 Sanders ran 49.65 that isnt clearly beaten. Nicola without the problems would have ran 49 low I have no doubt in my mind and that is the view of most coaches in the UK as well.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Sat May 04, 2013 1:07 am

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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Sun May 05, 2013 2:23 am

TBO opens with 50.58 !! :shock: :shock:

Be VERY afraid :D
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Sun May 05, 2013 3:20 am

mump boy wrote:TBO opens with 50.58 !! :shock: :shock:

Be VERY afraid


mump boy wrote:
jamboy wrote:Great run by Jamaican Stephanie McPerson beating the 2008 Olympic Champion Ohuruougu.


TBO opens with 50.58 :o unheard of

She means BUSINESS in 2013


Beaten by a Jamaican though who looks like she might be a genuine new sprint threat. Great news for Ohuruougu who looks, along with her recent great relay runs, in better form than ever before. If Richards-Ross isn't on top form after her big toe operation I'd wager TBO as the bigger contender for the world championships.

The video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8XRrxX4ado
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Thu May 09, 2013 10:55 pm

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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby peach77 » Thu May 09, 2013 11:37 pm

I'm really excited to see what this does to The BIg O- changing her tactics entirely is a big risk but one she should take at this point of the Olympic cycle. The attitude she has seems completely different and we'll see in the coming races how she progresses, but I'd love her to nail a title in low 49s to finally put to rest the quite ridiculous notion that a twice Olympic medallist world champion who has beaten everyone she could possibly beat at one point or another is somehow not "worthy" of the accolade...
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby mump boy » Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am

peach77 wrote:I'm really excited to see what this does to The BIg O- changing her tactics entirely is a big risk but one she should take at this point of the Olympic cycle. The attitude she has seems completely different and we'll see in the coming races how she progresses, but I'd love her to nail a title in low 49s to finally put to rest the quite ridiculous notion that a twice Olympic medallist world champion who has beaten everyone she could possibly beat at one point or another is somehow not "worthy" of the accolade...


Only quite ridiculous people think that :roll:
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby iain » Fri May 10, 2013 7:02 am

I just hope that this doesn't affect her peak too much, as we constantly see with the likes of the Russians and Montsho.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Fri May 10, 2013 12:36 pm

iain wrote:I just hope that this doesn't affect her peak too much, as we constantly see with the likes of the Russians and Montsho.



I wonder if Montsho runs so much because she doesn't earn much from sponsorship? I seem to recall a rant last year, maybe from somebody in her management team or federation about how little attention she got for being world champion in comparison to others/

As for the Russians, it doesn't matter when they race a lot or a little, when they get to a big championship they just run like idiots and kill themselves or don't appear to be able to save themselves in the rounds. I wonder if it's the pressure of trying so hard to take on the American girls?
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 10, 2013 12:48 pm

Well, we get some test of hypotheses this year, since the WCs are 'at home', is it the 'away from home' or the 'championship' element that is a problem.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby eldanielfire » Fri May 10, 2013 1:46 pm

26mi235 wrote:Well, we get some test of hypotheses this year, since the WCs are 'at home', is it the 'away from home' or the 'championship' element that is a problem.



The thing is, there were Russian multiple "sub-50 sec" performances on their way to whitewashing the 400m at the European championships, though Krivoshapka blew-up in that race as well. The weird thing is their successes at long distances in the likes of Yuliya Zaripova or Marina Savinova and examples of two Russian athletes who absolutely get it right in championships everytime.
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Re: Baby O: Be Afraid

Postby Deerfoot » Fri May 10, 2013 2:42 pm

Sadly I think some people do underrate TBO because she seldom runs fast outside championships. Granted, you can't place her among the absolute greats of the event like Perec, Freeman and Richards-Ross. But she's in the next rank and the point is she delivers when it matters. Like Kim Collins and Darren Campbell(and others) I respect her championship prowess while acknowledging she doesn't have the raw ability of the very best. In a way this makes her record all the more remarkable. She is a genius at peaking.
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