Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]


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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby gh » Thu May 02, 2013 10:28 pm

dude.... temper it, or you're gone again, this time forever. no shit
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Thu May 02, 2013 10:41 pm

Now on to more important things......like Cain's race at Drake!

Was I disappointed?
Absolutely!
Devastated?
Absolutely NOT!!

And neither was Mary!
In the post-race interview, she TWICE stated she could have gone "a lot faster"!!

Was this a "bad" race?
NO!!
Not unless you call a race in which you AGAIN break the HSR....a "bad" race!!

That she ran the first lap right behind Jenny Simpson (and the pacer) tells me she WAS intending to gun for the "A" standard.
Not sure exactly why, but she obviously did not feel good that day, and smartly backed off.....still finishing well for her EIGHTH HSR, indoors and out.

Here's a little tidbit you might not be aware of:
Only 3 runners got PR's in that race....out of 11 finishers!
Kate Grace, Emma Coburn, and.......Mary Cain!!

No PR's for Rowbury, Reid, Uceny, or Simpson!!

Congratulations to Jenny for a great race and time.
Also to the gracious and friendly Ms Reid.
(I call her that because of how she treated Mary after their Millrose race!!)

And while Ms Uceny doesn't seem overly concerned with her 2nd poor showing this year, I am......a bit.
WILL she get an "A"......or even a "B"??
I hope so.

But whatever her excuse is for running slow, Cain DID beat her at Drake!!
So it's Mary Cain at 1-0 over Morgan Uceny....
and Uceny at 0 and 1 against Ms Cain!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby doug5321 » Thu May 02, 2013 10:50 pm

http://www.flashwest.com/Run%20San%20Di ... ntries.pdf just a note cain is running the 800 on sunday.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby EPelle » Thu May 02, 2013 11:55 pm

aaronk wrote:Here's a little tidbit you might not be aware of:
Only 3 runners got PR's in that race....out of 11 finishers!
Kate Grace, Emma Coburn, and.......Mary Cain!!

Is every race a PB opportunity? Most people are cognisant of the fact that Drake was contested in April. And that most of the contestants are elite. Coburn's a steepler who improved from an existing sub-4.10. The elite 1.500m runners aren't aiming for an April PB. At Drake. And, they never were. One can continue drilling down. But why?
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 03, 2013 12:21 am

EPelle wrote:
aaronk wrote:Here's a little tidbit you might not be aware of:
Only 3 runners got PR's in that race....out of 11 finishers!
Kate Grace, Emma Coburn, and.......Mary Cain!!

Is every race a PB opportunity? Most people are cognisant of the fact that Drake was contested in April. And that most of the contestants are elite. Coburn's a steepler who improved from an existing sub-4.10. The elite 1.500m runners aren't aiming for an April PB. At Drake. And, they never were. One can continue drilling down. But why?


BTW, I'm NOT aware of what Coburn's PR was prior to Drake....but somewhere it said that her time last week was a PR.
Was it?? Or has she run faster for 1500??

As to elite runners....in ANY distance event (800-10000).....not going for "A"'s or PR's in April.....please note the results of the Payton Jordan meet just ONE DAY later......still in April!!

There were NUMEROUS PR's there......in every distance event......and even a few "A"'s.
They didn't achieve them by accident........though I don't think Cranny or Cheever expected to run as fast as they did!!.....but by design!!

While April isn't the BEST time to get a PR.......the Drake 1500 DID have a field so good......that it still seems a waste for those who didn't at least TRY for an "A"......and maybe even a PR, in some cases.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby EPelle » Fri May 03, 2013 12:41 am

Apples. Oranges. When one takes note that had the eventual Drake contestants desired to chase a time last week-end, they'd have travelled to Palo Alto—not to Des Moines, which isn't/hasn't been conducive to running very fast times—there's not much (no) comparison to be drawn between the two invites or fields. The Drake contestants lined up to check things out. See where they were. Tune-up. Burn off some rust. Some obviously are still really rusty; they're in heavier training modes. Payton-Jordan is a prime location/meet to set a PB/SB, but the Drake contestants obviously saw logic in contesting the mid-west meet.

Fortunately the DL season soon kicks off, and nearly all meets become contests of importance and relevance.

Coburn ran 4.09,42 on 18-May last year and 4.12,31 indoors at the Armory three months ago.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby az2004 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:02 am

do we know when and where cain will race next

prthsps ny diamond league or Eugene will give her more experience
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby doug5321 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:27 am

az2004 wrote:do we know when and where cain will race next

prthsps ny diamond league or Eugene will give her more experience


yes a 800 on sunday in san diego. http://www.flashwest.com/Run%20San%20Di ... ntries.pdf
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Dutra5 » Fri May 03, 2013 4:02 am

aaronk wrote:
That she ran the first lap right behind Jenny Simpson (and the pacer) tells me she WAS intending to gun for the "A" standard.


Cain said she figured she'd run 4:08-09

Here's a little tidbit you might not be aware of:
Only 3 runners got PR's in that race....out of 11 finishers!
Kate Grace, Emma Coburn, and.......Mary Cain!!


Which is more than typical.

No PR's for Rowbury, Reid, Uceny, or Simpson!!


Which is normal unless one believes running a PR would be expected in April.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby rgjp » Fri May 03, 2013 6:24 am

Simpson, Rowbury and Uceny's PR's are all 4:00 and faster

Of course it will be more challenging for these three ladies to PR every time they get into a race.

They are also seasoned champions who know how to build their fitness in preparation for 5 months of racing

April to late September is a long time to be race sharp.

I don't see why that is so hard for you to understand

Late June and Mid August are the dates that they really care about so please try to keep this in perspective before you continue to criticize their early season results.

I think it is fine for you to sing praises for a talented high schooler (although at times your posts are a bit creepy to me), but I don't see why you feel the need to bring the pros down in the process.

ie. Mary 1 / Morgan 0

Really??? Not cool!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby olorin » Fri May 03, 2013 7:19 am

aaronk wrote:
And while Ms Uceny doesn't seem overly concerned with her 2nd poor showing this year, I am......a bit.

This is the slowest start of the season for Uceny since 2009.
In 2010 she opened with 4:09 (1/05)
In 2011 she opened with 4:10 (1/05)
In 2012 she opened with 2:02 (29/04)

Hope she will bounce back really soon and have a third chance for glory.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 03, 2013 8:09 am

If it wasn't "cool" to mention Cain's win-loss record vs Uceny, it WAS relevant.
Why?
One of T&FN's 3 criteria for choosing their AOY.....is to measure how an athlete does against other athletes.
In fact, they say this is more important than marks.

So Cain's win-loss record against Uceny IS important.
(And I have little doubt that it will change.....quite a bit......before this year is done!!
To Uceny's advantage!!)

Mention (in the Annual issue) is usually made of "early season loss to....".
Well, if Uceny makes the Top Ten.......in either the AOY or the 1500 event......this loss to Cain will be just a footnote!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby br » Fri May 03, 2013 8:44 am

aaronk wrote:Mention (in the Annual issue) is usually made of "early season loss to....".
Well, if Uceny makes the Top Ten.......in either the AOY or the 1500 event......this loss to Cain will be just a footnote!!

Well, if Ucency makes the top 10, the footnote will mention that she had an early season loss to Jenny Simpson, not Mary Cain.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 03, 2013 8:49 am

Wishing a very happy 17th birthday to Mary!!
:D
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Brian » Sat May 04, 2013 11:02 pm

aaronk wrote:If it wasn't "cool" to mention Cain's win-loss record vs Uceny, it WAS relevant.
Why?
One of T&FN's 3 criteria for choosing their AOY.....is to measure how an athlete does against other athletes.
In fact, they say this is more important than marks.

So Cain's win-loss record against Uceny IS important.
(And I have little doubt that it will change.....quite a bit......before this year is done!!
To Uceny's advantage!!)

Mention (in the Annual issue) is usually made of "early season loss to....".
Well, if Uceny makes the Top Ten.......in either the AOY or the 1500 event......this loss to Cain will be just a footnote!!


Good grief, to even mention a concept such as Athlete of the Year in the same paragraph as a high schooler is heading down that road of unreasonably high expectations. Give the girl a break!

[Yes, I know the context of the point being made. Just. Don't. Make. It. For her sake.]
.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Dutra5 » Sun May 05, 2013 10:05 am

2:01.68 for Cain.

Looks like Martinez ran well but...in reality...who cares?
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Sun May 05, 2013 10:10 am

I started a thread about this meet last night!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby oldhalfmileguy » Thu May 09, 2013 10:59 pm

I second the opinion that someone's enthusiasm has went over the line into the creepy zone.
I know i am new here, but been around enough to recognize behavior.
Remembering when that odd person in the stands seemed to have a greater emotional investment in your race than you did. You could kind of ignore them and just smile.
But when you stop and think for a second it is too creepy.
I remember one race in my short career vividly, a guy had talked smack to me for 4 years in high school, i destroyed him all the time,then in my senior year things were different. A bad decision on tactics and bronchitis has me behind and it took everything i had to come around the guy, literally, at the line. Same time. I shake his hand, he really had run a great race, deserved to win and i kind of felt bad for him, despite his big mouth.
I turn around and this fan comes down to the fence, i recognized him. He was always cheering me on and congratulating me. He was out of his mind with excitement, and he let out a long tirade that was both far too complimentry to me and too vile, rude,criticical at my opponent. He even was swearing at him. At first i thought he was drunk or high but he wasn't. He was just a huge "fan". Frothing at the mouth.

Whenever i see someone who is not a relative to a competitor and of similar emotional investment to that competitor i am reminded of that one disgusting moment.
Yes, far too emotionally invested = far too creepy
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 10, 2013 1:12 am

oldhalfmileguy wrote:I second the opinion that someone's enthusiasm has went over the line into the creepy zone.
I know i am new here, but been around enough to recognize behavior.
Remembering when that odd person in the stands seemed to have a greater emotional investment in your race than you did. You could kind of ignore them and just smile.
But when you stop and think for a second it is too creepy.
I remember one race in my short career vividly, a guy had talked smack to me for 4 years in high school, i destroyed him all the time,then in my senior year things were different. A bad decision on tactics and bronchitis has me behind and it took everything i had to come around the guy, literally, at the line. Same time. I shake his hand, he really had run a great race, deserved to win and i kind of felt bad for him, despite his big mouth.
I turn around and this fan comes down to the fence, i recognized him. He was always cheering me on and congratulating me. He was out of his mind with excitement, and he let out a long tirade that was both far too complimentry to me and too vile, rude,criticical at my opponent. He even was swearing at him. At first i thought he was drunk or high but he wasn't. He was just a huge "fan". Frothing at the mouth.

Whenever i see someone who is not a relative to a competitor and of similar emotional investment to that competitor i am reminded of that one disgusting moment.
Yes, far too emotionally invested = far too creepy


YOUR "tirade" and "emotional investment" and "frothing at the mouth"....has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my so called "creepy" enthusiastic boosterism of what HER OWN COACH (Mr Salazar) has called "the greatest female distance talent he's ever seen"!!

What you described is NOWHERE NEAR the behavior I have shown at track meets.
Yes, when I watched Gerry Lindgren race 6 miles in San Diego in 1965 to a "WR", I cheered loud and long, to the point I almost went hoarse!
But did I "froth at the mouth"?
Did I boo angrily at Billy Mills, because he tied (or beat) my "hero"?
Absolutely NOT!!!

And the same would go if i were ever LUCKY enough to see Mary Cain race in person!!!

So I ask everyone again.....
PLEASE STOP accusing me FALSELY of being anything BUT.....a "fan and supporter" of Mary Cain!
It begins there.....
and it ends there!!!

IMO, your inferring otherwise is......well, CREEPY!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby vencio2 » Fri May 10, 2013 2:41 am

aaronk ... a small number of people have mentioned it feels creepy ... so, you can possibly assume even more people are thinking it without saying it. i'm sure you don't mean anything untoward, so why not just show a little emotional intelligence and quit going on endlessly about her?? yes mary cain is a great talent, yes you are perplexed why international elite runners aren't PR-ing in April, but a less liberal use of CAPS LOCKS and exclamation marks might make you appear a little less HYSTERICAL!!!!!!

for me the weirder thing is this expectation you have that everybody should be running WRs and PRs in every race. regardless of what level, do you run yourself? how close to your PR are you in every single race or run? it's pretty tough to be in that shape 24-7 (mentally and physically), no?
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 10, 2013 3:19 am

Vencio2.....
Let me answer some of your remarks.

1. I'm a writer---1000's and 1000's of pages of all forms of writing, from novels to haiku's in length---and since I'm still in the age bracket of typewriters and handwriting, I tend to use "CAPS" to show where emphasis/change of voice volume should be given a word or phrase. Same with "!!!". Those are used to show emphasis also....or "hystericalicity" (LOL), as Woody Allen might say it.

2. If you read ALL (Oops!!) of my posts, on every subject and athlete, you'll notice I'm similarly enthusiastic as I am with Cain.

3. Read what I wrote about her Re-RUN race. I predicted she'd come in 4th or worse, not be the winner. (Even though I feel she's close to entering the top 5 or 10 of America's elite!) I also said she would NOT break Gallagher's HSR. Too tough of a record. (Note that Cain, in an interview after the race, said she'd "love to go under 2:00", and that she was "just throwing that out there".)

4. As for expecting WR's or fast times in early season, or in every race, I don't, really. I HOPE for them (fast times), but don't expect them! But in the past, there've been some quick races at Mt SAC, Penn, the early Stanford meet....as well as indoors.

5. Yes, I ran for 30 years. And I always ran for time, even in my slowest runs. I'd go for a course record (my courses, not official race courses!) almost every time. Then I'd create new courses when I couldn't run faster on the old ones! Stupid way to train, but that's the way I was!

Now, on to Doha!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 10, 2013 6:30 am

Us middle-of-the-pack guys can go for time because we are not racing others very much (beating someone for 51st just isn't the same). But top guys are interested in winning races and that makes them great. Barrier breakers are a little in between, because the are racing that barrier. I think top guys are interested in time, but a substantial portion of that is that it is a marker for where they are at competitively. Take The Big O -- she is not defined by her PR but by her two top races.

Salazar is more concerned with Cain learning how to race at the international level than what her specific times are, I think.

Nicely composed post -- I will read more of what you say when it is in that format than the scattered lines going down a big swath of the screen. Also, on the 'top line' there are the bold, italics and underline functions (as well as the quote, etc.) They make posts look cleaner and classier than using caps a lot. Take the time to respect your audience.

Also, welcome to the board, half-mile guy :); I have already read three of your posts.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby ExRun » Fri May 10, 2013 6:39 am

I like Aaronk's posts and don't find anything creepy about them. This site would be a lot duller without him!!!!!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby aaronk » Fri May 10, 2013 6:42 am

ExRun wrote:I like Aaronk's posts and don't find anything creepy about them. This site would be a lot duller without him!!!!!!


Thank you, dear Sir or Madam!
You just made my day! :D :D

Now, on to the Doha meet!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby gh » Wed May 22, 2013 10:57 am

Gleason wrote:[...
I agree. If she fails to make the team for the Senior World Championships - as I expect - she can qualify for the Youth World Championships at St. Louis two days later. ..


That is apparently the plan.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed May 22, 2013 11:11 am

And that is a good plan because it has her in international championship competitions where you learn to compete in that different environment. The Trials have some championship similarity, but they are individual competitions with no national team competition element.
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