Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans


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Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 9:37 am

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2013 ... orts1.html


American male sprinters have been playing catch-up to their Jamaican rivals in recent years. And as far as United States (US) great Maurice Greene is concerned, the current crop of US sprinters have a long way to go before reclaiming the sprint crown.

"It's going to take a couple of years to get back to really compete with Jamaica," said Greene during an interview with The Gleaner. "It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of years, but more importantly, it's going to take a lot of athletes who really want to work and get better."

Eight Jamaican men ducked under the 10-second barrier in the 100m last season, compared to six Americans, while five Jamaican men ran below 20 seconds in the 200m, with only one American doing likewise. Additionally, the five fastest times recorded in the 100m in 2012 were posted by Jamaicans, who also accounted for nine of the top 10 times registered in the 200m over the period.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Tue May 07, 2013 9:41 am

Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.

Meanwhile what else is there to do in Jamaica? Play Cricket I suppose.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby beebee » Tue May 07, 2013 10:01 am

Jamaica has a long and storied history of great success in International track and field and are great and worthy champions in the sprinting events. But they also should thank American football and basketball for stealing away many of our greatest sprinters and jumpers...Most of the very best athletes in America reside in those sports. And please don't give me that "The US is a vast country" bs...sprinting in the United States is strictly the domain of 12% of our population and is certainly depleted by the big money and notoriety of the NFL.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby norunner » Tue May 07, 2013 10:01 am

Conor Dary wrote:Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.
If basketball and football are the explanation, why don't american women completely dominate the sprints? I assume the female loss to at least football is minimal?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby beebee » Tue May 07, 2013 10:08 am

norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.
If basketball and football are the explanation, why don't american women completely dominate the sprints? I assume the female loss to at least football is minimal?


You been in a coma the last thirty years?
American women have been extremely successful thank you very much sir.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Tue May 07, 2013 10:20 am

jamboy wrote:American male sprinters have been playing catch-up to their Jamaican rivals in recent years. And as far as United States (US) great Maurice Greene is concerned, the current crop of US sprinters have a long way to go before reclaiming the sprint crown.

"It's going to take a couple of years to get back to really compete with Jamaica," said Greene during an interview with The Gleaner. "It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of years, but more importantly, [b]it's going to take a lot of athletes who really want to work and get better
."

While I agree with Mo, he left out one every important word in his 'solution'.
American sprinters have everything the Jams have except one thing. They have the talent, the drive, the work ethic, the coaching, the facilities, the support, the incentive, but the one thing they lack is the cohesiveness. The Jams have an 'us vs. them' mentality to help each other. They are united (relatively speaking) in their desire to beat the rest of the world . . . together. The Amis are rivals and work in rival factions to 'get ahead' of each other. One of the most important pieces in the athletic puzzle is the concept of camaraderie. The Jams have it; the Amis don't.

Mo's last sentence should read: "the current crop of US sprinters have a long way to go TOGETHER before reclaiming the sprint crown."
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby norunner » Tue May 07, 2013 10:22 am

beebee wrote:
norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.
If basketball and football are the explanation, why don't american women completely dominate the sprints? I assume the female loss to at least football is minimal?


You been in a coma the last thirty years?
American women have been extremely successful thank you very much sir.
So have american men, this isn't about the last 30 years, this is about now. If you want to go back 30 years, lets see: In 1983 the best jamaican sprinter was Raymond Stewart, who was 31st in the world with 10.22s, 18 americans were faster than him that year. Last year there were more jamaican women then american among the top 20 over 100m and loss to professional sports certainly doesn't explain that.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby beebee » Tue May 07, 2013 10:28 am

norunner wrote:
beebee wrote:
norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.
If basketball and football are the explanation, why don't american women completely dominate the sprints? I assume the female loss to at least football is minimal?


You been in a coma the last thirty years?
American women have been extremely successful thank you very much sir.
So have american men, this isn't about the last 30 years, this is about now. If you want to go back 30 years, lets see: In 1983 the best jamaican sprinter was Raymond Stewart, who was 31st in the world with 10.22s, 18 americans were faster than him that year. Last year there were more jamaican women then american among the top 20 over 100m and loss to professional sports certainly doesn't explain that.


I believe that most unjaded, fair-minded observers will agree that the American women sprinters had a very successful Olympics last year.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Tue May 07, 2013 10:45 am

Who knows about the women. I don't follow them at all, so I have zero to say about what is going on there. But there could be all sorts of issues there. Cultural, opportunities whatever...

But for the men it is pretty easy. It has nothing to do with cohesion. Most of the Americans who could be great sprinters are in football, and perhaps some in basketball, where all of the money is. I am amazed the US has any decent sprinters anymore. As for the ones we do have, well, maybe they don't like getting hit. Who knows.

Jamaica is a fine country, and they have great athletes. So why turn it into some pissing contest about the US. Who cares what Mo Greene thinks.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Tue May 07, 2013 10:52 am

Conor Dary wrote:Who knows about the women. I don't follow them at all, so I have zero to say about what is going on there. But there could be all sorts of issues there. Cultural, opportunities whatever...

But for the men it is pretty easy. It has nothing to do with cohesion. Most of the Americans who could be great sprinters are in football, and perhaps some in basketball, where all of the money is. I am amazed the US has any decent sprinters anymore. As for the ones we do have, well, maybe they don't like getting hit. Who knows.

Jamaica is a fine country, and they have great athletes. So why turn it into some pissing contest about the US. Who cares what Mo Greene thinks.

It's like the comment on another thread to the effect of "America doesn't have any successful Javelin throwers". Yes, we do. They're all very successful, making millions of dollars in the NFL and MBL.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Tue May 07, 2013 10:56 am

Conor Dary wrote:But for the men it is pretty easy. It has nothing to do with cohesion. Most of the Americans who could be great sprinters are in football, and perhaps some in basketball, where all of the money is. I am amazed the US has any decent sprinters anymore. As for the ones we do have, well, maybe they don't like getting hit. Who knows.

Who cares what Mo Greene thinks.

It's far from 'easy'. There's all sorts of complex dynamics in play. It certainly is not as easy as saying 'they're all in pro sports'.
Who cares what Mo has to say? Many more than care what YOU or I say!!!
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby norunner » Tue May 07, 2013 10:58 am

Grasshopper wrote:It's like the comment on another thread to the effect of "America doesn't have any successful Javelin throwers". Yes, we do. They're all very successful, making millions of dollars in the NFL and MBL.
Maybe Tebow should switch to the javelin then 8-)
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby beebee » Tue May 07, 2013 11:04 am

Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.

Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...

World Class ugly American.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Tue May 07, 2013 11:06 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:But for the men it is pretty easy. It has nothing to do with cohesion. Most of the Americans who could be great sprinters are in football, and perhaps some in basketball, where all of the money is. I am amazed the US has any decent sprinters anymore. As for the ones we do have, well, maybe they don't like getting hit. Who knows.

Who cares what Mo Greene thinks.

It's far from 'easy'. There's all sorts of complex dynamics in play. It certainly is not as easy as saying 'they're all in pro sports'.
Who cares what Mo has to say? Many more than care what YOU or I say!!!


Yea, if he knew what he was talking about, instead of just playing the prima donna.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby JumboElliott » Tue May 07, 2013 11:17 am

beebee wrote:Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.

Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...

World Class ugly American.

Bolt does the exact same thing and is celebrated for it.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Tue May 07, 2013 11:19 am

beebee wrote:Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.
Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...
World Class ugly American.

Well, that's ONE perspective. When I saw him live (and on TV) he was universally well received. His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lonewolf » Tue May 07, 2013 12:06 pm

Our reaction of an athlete's victory celebration is subjective/personal/biased.
I am not aware that anyone here has ever run 100m in 9.56 seconds. Do you really know how you would react if you did so?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby marknhj » Tue May 07, 2013 12:14 pm

beebee wrote:Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.
Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...
World Class ugly American.


I've seen him live many times, in big meets and small, and you could not be more wrong. He was a class act, especially with fans. I suggest replacing your last "American" with wherever you're from.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby gh » Tue May 07, 2013 12:25 pm

beebee wrote:Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.

Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...

World Class ugly American.


bye!
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:01 pm

Marlow wrote:
jamboy wrote:American male sprinters have been playing catch-up to their Jamaican rivals in recent years. And as far as United States (US) great Maurice Greene is concerned, the current crop of US sprinters have a long way to go before reclaiming the sprint crown.

"It's going to take a couple of years to get back to really compete with Jamaica," said Greene during an interview with The Gleaner. "It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of years, but more importantly, [b]it's going to take a lot of athletes who really want to work and get better
."

While I agree with Mo, he left out one every important word in his 'solution'.
American sprinters have everything the Jams have except one thing. They have the talent, the drive, the work ethic, the coaching, the facilities, the support, the incentive, but the one thing they lack is the cohesiveness. The Jams have an 'us vs. them' mentality to help each other. They are united (relatively speaking) in their desire to beat the rest of the world . . . together. The Amis are rivals and work in rival factions to 'get ahead' of each other. One of the most important pieces in the athletic puzzle is the concept of camaraderie. The Jams have it; the Amis don't.

Mo's last sentence should read: "the current crop of US sprinters have a long way to go TOGETHER before reclaiming the sprint crown."


Jamaican track and field facilities for athletes training is very much archaic compared to most facilities in the US.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:03 pm

norunner wrote:
beebee wrote:
norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Between basketball and football, I am surprised there are any American sprinters left for track.
If basketball and football are the explanation, why don't american women completely dominate the sprints? I assume the female loss to at least football is minimal?


You been in a coma the last thirty years?
American women have been extremely successful thank you very much sir.
So have american men, this isn't about the last 30 years, this is about now. If you want to go back 30 years, lets see: In 1983 the best jamaican sprinter was Raymond Stewart, who was 31st in the world with 10.22s, 18 americans were faster than him that year. Last year there were more jamaican women then american among the top 20 over 100m and loss to professional sports certainly doesn't explain that.


Raymond Stewart was ranked #1 in the world by Track and Field News in 1989.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:11 pm

Marlow wrote:
beebee wrote:Well, win or lose I hope that today's American athletes don't perform like astonishingly poor winners as Mr. Greene did, prancing around the stadiums like some minstrel on crack after races.
Maurice Greene, World Class sprinter...
World Class ugly American.

Well, that's ONE perspective. When I saw him live (and on TV) he was universally well received. His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!


Hated it.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Tue May 07, 2013 4:13 pm

jamboy wrote:Jamaican track and field facilities for athletes training is very much archaic compared to most facilities in the US.

I'm having a hard time being sympathetic to Bolt, Blake and Powell's plight and their "archaic" facilities.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:13 pm

lonewolf wrote:Our reaction of an athlete's victory celebration is subjective/personal/biased.
I am not aware that anyone here has ever run 100m in 9.56 seconds. Do you really know how you would react if you did so?


Who has ever run the 100m in 9.56?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Tue May 07, 2013 4:14 pm

jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!

Hated it.

That goes without saying . . .
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:16 pm

Marlow wrote:
jamboy wrote:Jamaican track and field facilities for athletes training is very much archaic compared to most facilities in the US.

I'm having a hard time being sympathetic to Bolt, Blake and Powell's plight and their "archaic" facilities.


Bolt/Blake has the best facility. Unfortunately, that is only 1. Powell trains at Utech and the facilities there are old, archaic and decrepit.

Most of the other facilities including weight room cannot compare to what US athletes train on.
New documentaries over the years have showcased this.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:17 pm

Marlow wrote:
jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!

Hated it.

That goes without saying . . .


Bolt certainly would not do that. That was planned and came off as cocky.

Bolts antics are more a natural reaction.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby JRM » Tue May 07, 2013 4:40 pm

jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:
jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!

Hated it.

That goes without saying . . .


Bolt certainly would not do that. That was planned and came off as cocky.

Bolts antics are more a natural reaction.


:shock:
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby marknhj » Tue May 07, 2013 6:14 pm

jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:
jamboy wrote:
Marlow wrote:His shoes-on-fire routine was a highlight in modern American showmanship. Loved it!

Hated it.

That goes without saying . . .


Bolt certainly would not do that. That was planned and came off as cocky.

Bolts antics are more a natural reaction.


That is hilarious! I was close by Mo when he did his shoes-on-fire routine, it was marvelously entertaining and so well conceived I'm surprised no one had thought of it before.

What we could really do without is Blake and the others trying too hard to imitate Bolt at the start line. Let's be honest, the beast pose makes him look like a complete tosser who is trying too hard (and I'm guessing he isn't a complete tosser).
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 6:20 pm

How did the beast come into this argument? I thought we were talking about Bolt and Greene.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby meatball » Tue May 07, 2013 6:45 pm

i don't think the state of us sprint ers is in the shape greene thinks it is, certainly there isn't a bolt or blake , but what's not to like about batson, wesh, locke, young,silmon, bracy?, there is hope. its not like there isn't anyone on the horizon.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby GDAWG » Tue May 07, 2013 7:34 pm

If a male college athlete was a really good track athlete, but also good enough to play in the NFL, he would choose to play in the NFL, as was the case of Marquise Goodwin. Unless he completely flops in the NFL, his track and field career is over and he will probably never step foot on a Long jump pit ever again.

Chances are higher that we'll see Lawrence Okoye back on the track again than we will with Goodwin.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby jamboy » Tue May 07, 2013 8:11 pm

After Gatlin was banned, he joined a football team. What happened?

Did he suck at football so he came back to track?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Tue May 07, 2013 8:32 pm

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Don't_feed_the_Troll
A troll usually has little or no interest in contributing to the development of the site in question and is interested in :
Deliberately angering people.
Breaking the normal flow of debate/discussion.
Disrupting the smooth operation of the site.
Deliberately being annoying for the sake of being obnoxious. For instance, using abusive names to refer to all the members on the site.
Making itself the main topic of interest or discussion.[
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby gh » Tue May 07, 2013 8:47 pm

yeah, Jam the fanboy is a post or two from seeing privileges revoked.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby tm71 » Tue May 07, 2013 9:20 pm

How did the beast come into this argument? I thought we were talking about Bolt and Greene/

This is why i avoid this board. comments like this for people who have a hard time comprehending a simple article. my 3rd grade can figure this out. i dont know why on earth mo greene's comments about american sprinters needing to get their act together to catch up to the jamaicans got so distorted that the thread is about bolt and greene style of celebrating.
greene said something very simple that the american sprinters need to work harder to
overtake jamaica again. love or hate maurice he made a few excellent points such as "people only see the glory when they compete but miss the hard work we put it" and certainly he is qualified having been one of the most successful american sprinters.
i certainly think the issue is much more complicated than the "us spinters dont work as hard". the talent certainly has been there with gay, gatlin, bailey, rodgers having clocked 9.9 or better. i think all these men are hard working and even so people like patton who are still running in their mid 30s when they could have easily retired. as far as the football and basketball stealing some of the talent from track while they might be true to a small extent. in fact i dont think they are any faster players in the nfl than gatlin or gay and there certainly no more versatile athletes than eaton and hardee in any of the pro sports. it is possible that poor coaching in age group and high school track might have contributed to some of the attrition by the time those men reach adulthood. also it is possible that cultural issues might play a role too, as there are so many opportunities and distractions in american where most young jamaican (and other carribean men) have very few options as far as careers or sports (track and cricket) and even fewer distractions. it is true that this goes in cycles and things can change dramatically from one olympic cycle to the next (even in the high hurdles admittedly the most dominant us event the us men did not win gold for eight years)
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lonewolf » Tue May 07, 2013 9:26 pm

jamboy wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Our reaction of an athlete's victory celebration is subjective/personal/biased.
I am not aware that anyone here has ever run 100m in 9.56 seconds. Do you really know how you would react if you did so?


Who has ever run the 100m in 9.56?

No one that I am aware of. Probably should have said 9.57. 9.58 would only tie the record and be no cause for celebration. :)
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby TeWaio » Tue May 07, 2013 11:52 pm

marknhj wrote:What we could really do without is Blake and the others trying too hard to imitate Bolt at the start line. Let's be honest, the beast pose makes him look like a complete tosser who is trying too hard (and I'm guessing he isn't a complete tosser).


Totally agree, makes me cringe every time.

Some of my female club-mates met him on a night out after the London OGs and got photos, chatted etc. They spoke very highly of him, said he was a lovely guy.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby kamikaze7 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:09 am

The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:12 pm

kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................


I have to agree with kamikaze, to blame the NFL and NBA for recent US sprint fortunes seems ludicrous. Im pretty sure that during the peak of US standing in the sprints there was just as much if not more of an allure from the NFL/NBA. And I did not see Greene make that argument either.
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