First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Gay


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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby mump boy » Thu May 02, 2013 12:43 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Speaking of intolerance, we are miles ahead of Italy.

In my (now dated) Euro experiences, London was the ONLY place in Europe that seemed to have fully come to grips with race (in a good sense) as an issue and even they seemed to have more 'problems' with it that we do. What do mump/flump think?


The best thing about london is it's diversity and day to day i don't think there are very many racial problems at all !! and certainly not the same as you have in US. The problems we do have are mixed up with poverty, class, lack of opportunity etc and are not specific to race but may effect black people more. The riots of 2 years ago had nothing to do with race but a whole lot of mixed up complicated social and economic reasons.

Race is very different in UK than US as we don't have the same history, we also don't have the same institutions, organisations or sense of community that have combated racism in america, so it's a very different landscape. For example there is no equivalent to NAACP or black churches, there is no real 'black community' as such and because the ethnicities are so diverse there aren't the numbers or the combined economic clout that black america has.

London is a VERY cosmopolitan city and unlike Paris for example where all the social housing (and therefore majority of immigrants) are on the outskirts of the city, different ethnicities are represented throughout the city and people mostly live right next to each other with no problems at all

Although there are many different types of racism (institutional being the most difficult to detect and probably the most prevalent) I've lived in london for 21 years and can honestly say i have never encountered out and out racism from anyone.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 3:51 am

gh wrote:Could it be as simple as the fact that one shouldn't make sweeping judgments about cultures based on the LCD (which in this case is the yobs that populate soccer stadia)?


I am afraid that at least in central Europe (the region I know somewhat), it may not be quite so. Hatred of the Gypsies (Roma) is so pervasive through the entire society (not just the LCD), it transcends to other "people of color." Comments I still hear from supposedly enlightened folks of my old hunting grounds about ethnic, racial, religious etc. groups boggle the mind.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Grasshopper » Thu May 02, 2013 5:10 am

26mi235 wrote:Jesus is he stupid; unbelievably stupid. No ability to critically think about what the Bible really says, just taking it as bad. Since being a sinner is no bar to be Christian, where does he think that his position makes any sense.

They really ought to boot him because he shows in an inability to think beyond his knee-jerk perspective.

{Broussard]



As for the heredity thing. It is small sample properties but I would be stunned if there were not genetic links. Once that is established, then there really is no moral basis to condemn the orientation.

I'll be happy to discuss what the Bible "really" says with you in PM's, as I'm sure the discussion would get us booted from this board, but if you listen to what Chris says it's clear he's differentiating from being a sinner and openly choosing to live in sin. I believe he views it as a similar difference as someone being an alcoholic versus openly choosing to continue indulging in alcohol.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 5:33 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:We're ahead of Europe in the area of religious tolerance, but any Black person who has spent significant time in both places will tell you that they're ahead of us on racial tolerance.

Then why is racial taunting a problem at soccer matches there and not in pro sports here?

That's some very simplistic and narrow logic you're employing. Why are you focusing only on what happens at soccer match? What about what happens in the broader society as a whole?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Thu May 02, 2013 5:57 am

jazzcyclist wrote:That's some very simplistic and narrow logic you're employing. Why are you focusing only on what happens at soccer match? What about what happens in the broader society as a whole?

That was not trying to simplify/generalize the argument, it was merely to give a very obvious example (symptom) of public behavior. The question remains: why does it exist (commonly) in Euro stadia, but not American ones? As gh said above: "That is a stunningly interesting question."
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 6:05 am

Grasshopper wrote:he views it as a similar difference as someone being an alcoholic versus openly choosing to continue indulging in alcohol


I do not appreciate the difference between the two. Both are voluntary activities.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Grasshopper » Thu May 02, 2013 7:16 am

Pego wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:he views it as a similar difference as someone being an alcoholic versus openly choosing to continue indulging in alcohol


I do not appreciate the difference between the two. Both are voluntary activities.

Yeah, I don't think I worded that analogy very well. Many people I know who have struggled with alcohol addiction in the past still consider themselves to be alcoholics, even though they haven't engaged in that behavior for many years. It's a label regarding identity and/or condition, rather than conduct/activity only. In that way there is a difference between "alcoholic" as a condition of addiction (regardless of whether or not one is still choosing to drink alcohol) and "alcoholic" as a lifestyle of willing overconsumption of alcohol. It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it's simply what came to mind.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 7:18 am

Marlow wrote:That was not trying to simplify/generalize the argument, it was merely to give a very obvious example (symptom) of public behavior. The question remains: why does it exist (commonly) in Euro stadia, but not American ones? As gh said above: "That is a stunningly interesting question."

For whatever it's worth, here are my observations an anecdotes:

All people are tribal in nature, but those tribal extincts don't manifest themselves in heterogeneous societies until the minorities began to reach significant numbers. In the U.S., the two biggest minorities are Blacks and Hispanics, and predictably those are the two groups that American politicians have historically demagogued the most.

My mother once said that the first positive experience that she ever had with White folks was when we lived in Germany when my Dad was a young Army officer in the 1960's. She also said that the best experience she ever had dealing with White folks in the U.S. was when she spent the summer of 1970 in a graduate school program in Maine, where she said that she never saw another Black person during the whole summer but every White person seemed to go out of their way to be nice to her.

On the flip side, I have a German friend who came to work here in the late 90's who said one thing that shocked him was how often he heard White folks talk disparingly about Blacks when Blacks weren't around. He said that not only did that not happen in Germany, but that once when he was in high school, there were two new students that were Black and they immediately became the most popular students on campus. However, he also said that he doubted that a large number of Black students would have received such a warm welcome at his school.

Regarding European soccer matches, I think a society's history has a lot to do with the crudeness in behavior that it will tolerate. Europe has no history of state-sanctioned racism during our lifetimes like the U.S. does and the taunts that soccer players have to endure don't compare what Black athletes had to tolerate well into the 70's when some lived under constant death threats. For this reason, I think American society is a lot more sensitive about racial taunts today. Similarly, the U.S. has no history of state-sanctioned religious bigotry like Europe does, which is why people can get away with saying things about Jews in the U.S. that would land them in prison if they said them in most western European nations.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 7:25 am

Here's another anecdote that relates to this discussion:

The second largest Jewish population (25,000) in the Mideast resides in Iran. A few years ago, there was a Fundamentalist Christian group that tried to entice them all to emigrate to Israel with payments of $5000 and there were no takers. Then the enticement was doubled to $10,000 and still only a couple of families took the offer. The common sentiment among them seemed to be that it would be foolish to go live in some settlement and spend the rest of their lives fighting Palestinians when they had a fairly comfortable, hassle-free life in Iran with a standard of living above that of the average Iranian. I doubt very seriously that these Jews would feel so safe in Iran if they numbered 7,000,000 (roughly 10% of Iran's population) instead of just 25,000.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Thu May 02, 2013 7:31 am

jazzcyclist wrote:people can get away with saying things about Jews in the U.S.

I must not get out much. I have zero experience with anti-Semitism. What I've always heard was the kinds of things that Jon Stewart says about the 'Jewish tradition/experience'.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 7:45 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:people can get away with saying things about Jews in the U.S.

I must not get out much. I have zero experience with anti-Semitism. What I've always heard was the kinds of things that Jon Stewart says about the 'Jewish tradition/experience'.

I'm not saying that anti-Jewish sentiment is rampant in the U.S. I'm only saying that it's more tolerated here than in western Europe where the swastika is illegal and people have gone to prison for denying the Holocaust.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 02, 2013 7:54 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:We're ahead of Europe in the area of religious tolerance, but any Black person who has spent significant time in both places will tell you that they're ahead of us on racial tolerance.

Then why is racial taunting a problem at soccer matches there and not in pro sports here?


Soccer matches in themselves can be a bizarre atmosphere, that sometimes brings out the worse in people. As I wrote elsewhere once, my most memorable adventure at a soccer match was the 4th Division Hereford-Brighton game in Hereford in May 1997. A quiet bucolic town on the Welsh border, the loser, for the first time ever, would be relegated out of the league. Why I went is a long story, but it was one of the most frightening times I have experienced. It is the only time I have been to a sporting event and the ticker taker told me, when he noticed my American accent, 'be really careful in there!'

And as soon as the ticket-taker warned me--as if to prove his point---this big door opened right next us and three unruly Herefordians were getting thrown out. Needless to say, these lads weren't too pleased about getting tossed before the start of the biggest game in Hereford since they beat Newcastle in the FA in 1972, and fought the dozen or so policemen dragging them out. Fortunately without success.

The entire game had the feeling of the arena, which was full at 8000 spectators, in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. At the end of the game about 30 policemen, in full riot gear, and dogs came out on the pitch to ensure there would be no trouble. A surreal atmosphere to say the least.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:59 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Europe has no history of state-sanctioned racism during our lifetimes like the U.S. does and the taunts that soccer players have to endure don't compare what Black athletes had to tolerate well into the 70's when some lived under constant death threats.


A majority of my wife's European branch did not survive to see 1946; everyone that survived had something unusual (or a bunch of such somethings in every case that I know of) happen so that they did survive. If that is not state-sponsored racism...

The USSR certainly had systematic state-sponsored racism.

While a bit dated now, in south Asia the locals were often for the Japanese at first until that saw more pathological racism. That underlying racism did not immediately vanish from the British 'personality' in 1942.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 9:14 am

Grasshopper wrote:
Pego wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:he views it as a similar difference as someone being an alcoholic versus openly choosing to continue indulging in alcohol


I do not appreciate the difference between the two. Both are voluntary activities.

Yeah, I don't think I worded that analogy very well. Many people I know who have struggled with alcohol addiction in the past still consider themselves to be alcoholics, even though they haven't engaged in that behavior for many years. It's a label regarding identity and/or condition, rather than conduct/activity only. In that way there is a difference between "alcoholic" as a condition of addiction (regardless of whether or not one is still choosing to drink alcohol) and "alcoholic" as a lifestyle of willing overconsumption of alcohol. It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it's simply what came to mind.


I see what you mean. As you said, we'd better leave the religious analogy alone :wink: .
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby user4 » Thu May 02, 2013 9:23 am

KevinM wrote:
Marlow wrote:
KevinM wrote:the backlash is not only to the evangelism, but to the absurd media overkill.

How is that his fault?


I didn't say that it is (though he does have a penchant for self-promotion). The point is that much of the backlash is not to Tebow, but to ESPN's over-saturation.


I still dont understand why Tebow was not on the field more for the Jets. His football measurables were off the charts and he never really blew it on the field. There has to be a place for a 6'3" 240lb heisman trophy winner. His raw physical tools; quickness, strength and power are still real currency in the NFL . Some owner is going to get pick him up and it will prove a solid investment. As for Ryan's Jets, time will tell, time will tell.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 10:09 am

26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Europe has no history of state-sanctioned racism during our lifetimes like the U.S. does and the taunts that soccer players have to endure don't compare what Black athletes had to tolerate well into the 70's when some lived under constant death threats.


A majority of my wife's European branch did not survive to see 1946; everyone that survived had something unusual (or a bunch of such somethings in every case that I know of) happen so that they did survive. If that is not state-sponsored racism... .

If you bothered to read the rest of my post, you would have seen that I called it state-sanctioned religious bigotry. White folks were both the oppressors and the oppressed during the Holocaust which is why I don't call it racism. However, from a moral point of view, I make no distinction between bigotry based on skin color, bigotry based on religion and bigotry based on language, all are wrong.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 10:23 am


Good read, thanks for sharing. The way I see it, we'll have to wait and see if he gets signed to another team before his legacy is cemented as the first active athlete in one of the four major US team sports to announce he is gay. If no one signs him, he'll go down in history as just another retired athlete in one of the four major US team sports to announce he is gay.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 02, 2013 12:06 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Europe has no history of state-sanctioned racism during our lifetimes like the U.S. does and the taunts that soccer players have to endure don't compare what Black athletes had to tolerate well into the 70's when some lived under constant death threats.


A majority of my wife's European branch did not survive to see 1946; everyone that survived had something unusual (or a bunch of such somethings in every case that I know of) happen so that they did survive. If that is not state-sponsored racism... .

If you bothered to read the rest of my post, you would have seen that I called it state-sanctioned religious bigotry. White folks were both the oppressors and the oppressed during the Holocaust which is why I don't call it racism. However, from a moral point of view, I make no distinction between bigotry based on skin color, bigotry based on religion and bigotry based on language, all are wrong.


It was not religion, per se, as they went after people that had been Christian because they had some 'Jewish' blood in their ancestry. When the Master Race is a subset of 'white' and everyone else is inferior, that is racism and about as pure a form as you can get. However, I do not think that we really disagree, as the label is not quite so important as the concept and the facts that go along with that concept.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 12:13 pm

That is correct. Jews and Gypsies of Europe were Caucasians, yet referred to as "inferior race." I also classify this as racism, not only rather narrow window that jazzcyclist uses for the term.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 12:52 pm

Pego wrote:That is correct. Jews and Gypsies of Europe were Caucasians, yet referred to as "inferior race." I also classify this as racism, not only rather narrow window that jazzcyclist uses for the term.

I guess the word racism is used two ways in American vernacular. I was using a literal, narrow interpretation of the word. However, there is also the broad, general interpretation that 26mi used which encompasses bigotry based on skin color, religion, ethnicity, language, culture, etc. Do you think there will be a day in the future when homophobia will also fall under the racism umbrella?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 1:24 pm

Probably not, hatred is more apt a word. I personally use the word racism for hate of different race or ethnicity, not religion or a conference not Big Ten :wink: . As 26mi235 pointed out, the "final solution" was a lot more anti-ethnic than anti-religious movement.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Thu May 02, 2013 1:27 pm

Pego wrote:I personally use the word racism for hate of different race or ethnicity, not a conference like the Big Ten

Although adherents of the Big-10 really do deserve our acrimony and antipathy! :twisted:
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 1:44 pm

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:I personally use the word racism for hate of different race or ethnicity, not a conference like the Big Ten

Although adherents of the Big-10 really do deserve our acrimony and antipathy! :twisted:


As a fan of both Florida and Florida St, well, you get the same twice from us back, I guess. SEC hated for football, ACC for basketball 8-) .
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Thu May 02, 2013 1:54 pm

Pego wrote:As a fan of both Florida and Florida St, well, you get the same twice from us back, I guess. SEC hated for football, ACC for basketball 8-) .

I am not an SEC or ACC fan; I am a PAC-8/10/12/14/whatever fan! 8-)
But yeah, I will root for UF/FSU.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Thu May 02, 2013 2:29 pm

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:As a fan of both Florida and Florida St, well, you get the same twice from us back, I guess. SEC hated for football, ACC for basketball 8-) .

I am not an SEC or ACC fan; I am a PAC-8/10/12/14/whatever fan! 8-)
But yeah, I will root for UF/FSU.


Wow, triple derision!! Woof! :D
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Flumpy » Thu May 02, 2013 3:00 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:We're ahead of Europe in the area of religious tolerance, but any Black person who has spent significant time in both places will tell you that they're ahead of us on racial tolerance.

Then why is racial taunting a problem at soccer matches there and not in pro sports here?


Racial taunting at football matches has little to do with racism. It;s tribalism that's the problem.

Every football club in the country has black players these days and supporters of any specific club wouldn't direct racist taunts at their own players. When it comes to abuse of other teams though, anything goes.

Whilst historically there has been major problems with racism in British soccer but this really isn't the case anymore. Being black is now just seen as something else that can be used to abuse a player on an opposing team in the same was as if they are short, fat or have a Spice Girl as a wife.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Thu May 02, 2013 3:46 pm

Flumpy wrote:Every football club in the country has black players these days and supporters of any specific club wouldn't direct racist taunts at their own players. When it comes to abuse of other teams though, anything goes.

American football fans can (and often are) extremely abusive in the epithets they hurl at opposing teams, but NEVER (that I've ever heard about) is it race-related. The person yelling a racial slur would be taken out by other fans around him.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Friar » Thu May 02, 2013 5:50 pm

little surprised...if one twin is gay the other wouldn't be.

If I'm remembering correctly there's about a 50% chance "the other" of the monozygotic twins would be (gay). I would have thought it would be much higher, something like 80%.

Fraternal twins have a considerably lower shot, maybe ten percent (if one bro twin is gay).

Exactly what that says about the genetic factor vis-a-vis acquired behavior (ie. choice) I'm not sure.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu May 02, 2013 8:05 pm

Flumpy wrote:Racial taunting at football matches has little to do with racism. It;s tribalism that's the problem.

Every football club in the country has black players these days and supporters of any specific club wouldn't direct racist taunts at their own players. When it comes to abuse of other teams though, anything goes.

Whilst historically there has been major problems with racism in British soccer but this really isn't the case anymore. Being black is now just seen as something else that can be used to abuse a player on an opposing team in the same was as if they are short, fat or have a Spice Girl as a wife.

Being both Black and European, you're obviously in a pretty good position to weigh in on this topic. What do you think about my theory of Europeans being more sensitive than Americans when it comes to anti-Jew bigotry/hatred? Can you imagine soccer hooligans engaging in Holocaust taunts if there were a Jewish player on the opposing team?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Per Andersen » Thu May 02, 2013 9:53 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Can you imagine soccer hooligans engaging in Holocaust taunts if there were a Jewish player on the opposing team?

Easily. Lazio (Serie A in Italy) fans do that regularly. The sssssssssssss sound for gassing is quite common. Certain Lazio fans wave nazi flags.
An jewish Tottenham fan was stabbed during a Tottenham-Lazio game in Rome.
In the next league game in England between Tottenham and West Ham some West Ham fans were chanting Viva Lazio. The ssssssss gassing sound is also used by certain Dutch fans.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby user4 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:43 am

Per Andersen wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Can you imagine soccer hooligans engaging in Holocaust taunts if there were a Jewish player on the opposing team?

Easily. Lazio (Serie A in Italy) fans do that regularly. The sssssssssssss sound for gassing is quite common. Certain Lazio fans wave nazi flags.
An jewish Tottenham fan was stabbed during a Tottenham-Lazio game in Rome.
In the next league game in England between Tottenham and West Ham some West Ham fans were chanting Viva Lazio. The ssssssss gassing sound is also used by certain Dutch fans.


That is extremely hard to even imagine at a US-football match. Reprehensible.
Last edited by user4 on Fri May 03, 2013 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri May 03, 2013 5:13 am

Per Andersen wrote:Easily. Lazio (Serie A in Italy) fans do that regularly. The sssssssssssss sound for gassing is quite common. Certain Lazio fans wave nazi flags.
An jewish Tottenham fan was stabbed during a Tottenham-Lazio game in Rome.
In the next league game in England between Tottenham and West Ham some West Ham fans were chanting Viva Lazio. The ssssssss gassing sound is also used by certain Dutch fans.

That's pretty amazing considering all the hate speech laws in Europe. I guess those soccer hooligans are more hardcore than I thought.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Fri May 03, 2013 5:56 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:Easily. Lazio (Serie A in Italy) fans do that regularly. The sssssssssssss sound for gassing is quite common. Certain Lazio fans wave nazi flags.
An jewish Tottenham fan was stabbed during a Tottenham-Lazio game in Rome.
In the next league game in England between Tottenham and West Ham some West Ham fans were chanting Viva Lazio. The ssssssss gassing sound is also used by certain Dutch fans.

That's pretty amazing considering all the hate speech laws in Europe. I guess those soccer hooligans are more hardcore than I thought.


Many clubs have lesser or bigger groups of fans that travel to league games just to provoke fights with the locals. That did not exist in my day.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Vielleicht » Fri May 03, 2013 6:13 am

What's the interracial marriage incidence in the US and in the western Europe respectively?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Fri May 03, 2013 7:22 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:Easily. Lazio (Serie A in Italy) fans do that regularly. The sssssssssssss sound for gassing is quite common. Certain Lazio fans wave nazi flags.
An jewish Tottenham fan was stabbed during a Tottenham-Lazio game in Rome.
In the next league game in England between Tottenham and West Ham some West Ham fans were chanting Viva Lazio. The ssssssss gassing sound is also used by certain Dutch fans.

That's pretty amazing considering all the hate speech laws in Europe. I guess those soccer hooligans are more hardcore than I thought.


Speaking of Fascists and Football, Sunderland recently hired a fascist as their new manager.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22000125

By the way, if you want to get a great perspective on hooliganism read the book by the American writer Bill Buford, Among the Thugs about his travels with football hooligans. English soccer has changed since the time he wrote it, but still relevant.

http://www.amazon.com/Among-Thugs-Bill- ... +the+thugs
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby mump boy » Sat May 04, 2013 1:30 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Flumpy wrote:Racial taunting at football matches has little to do with racism. It;s tribalism that's the problem.

Every football club in the country has black players these days and supporters of any specific club wouldn't direct racist taunts at their own players. When it comes to abuse of other teams though, anything goes.

Whilst historically there has been major problems with racism in British soccer but this really isn't the case anymore. Being black is now just seen as something else that can be used to abuse a player on an opposing team in the same was as if they are short, fat or have a Spice Girl as a wife.

Being both Black and European, you're obviously in a pretty good position to weigh in on this topic. What do you think about my theory of Europeans being more sensitive than Americans when it comes to anti-Jew bigotry/hatred? Can you imagine soccer hooligans engaging in Holocaust taunts if there were a Jewish player on the opposing team?


I always find anti semitism in modern UK or USA for that matter totally bizarre. Most Jews are so assimilated and it's not instantly recognisable like race. I don't think being Jewish is something that people even notice in the UK unless they're Hasidic or your from The BNP

But then i didn't realise Dustin Hoffman was Jewish till this year :? it's not something that i even think about
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Flumpy » Sat May 04, 2013 3:42 am

At least once a week I find out that someone is Jewish and it hadn't previously crossed my mind.

Recent examples Lionel Blair and Adrian Brody. I've just this very minute discovered that Linda McCartney and Peter Sellers were Jewish??? :?

I don't undertsand anti- Semitism at all in this day an age. How can you possibly dislike a race of people if you have no idea who they are?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby mump boy » Sat May 04, 2013 3:47 am

Flumpy wrote:At least once a week I find out that someone is Jewish and it hadn't previously crossed my mind.

Recent examples Lionel Blair and Adrian Brody. I've just this very minute discovered that Linda McCartney and Peter Sellers were Jewish??? :?

I don't undertsand anti- Semitism at all in this day an age. How can you possibly dislike a race of people if you have no idea who they are?


Only people from UK will get how dense i am but i didn't realises Esther Rantzen or Maureen Lipman were Jewish for years :lol: :lol:
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Vielleicht » Sat May 04, 2013 4:53 am

Flumpy wrote:At least once a week I find out that someone is Jewish and it hadn't previously crossed my mind.

Recent examples Lionel Blair and Adrian Brody.

Adrian Brody's most famous role, which won him an Oscar, was a Jewish pianist! :wink:
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