London Marathon Thread


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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:42 am

Stanley Biwott goes to the front, with Emmanuel Mutai giving chase.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:42 am

aaronk wrote:The problem with predicting a WR is that.....if you miss it by just 1 second....or 20 seconds or so......you're considered a failure...and go home disappointed!!!

Unsure which world you live in.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:44 am

CookyMonzta wrote:Stanley Biwott goes to the front, with Emmanuel Mutai giving chase.

Drops Mutai by 6 seconds at 35km.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:46 am

EPelle wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:Stanley Biwott goes to the front, with Emmanuel Mutai giving chase.

Drops Mutai by 6 seconds at 35km.

Mutai trying to reel him back in. Will he have enough room?
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:47 am

Passed him at 1.47.42
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:49 am

CookyMonzta wrote:
EPelle wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:Stanley Biwott goes to the front, with Emmanuel Mutai giving chase.

Drops Mutai by 6 seconds at 35km.

Mutai trying to reel him back in. Will he have enough room?

Apparently yes, and then some.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:57 am

14:58 for the 30-35k split. Methinks the men bit off more than they could chew with the below WR pace for the first half. Lots of carnage on the second half ... although they are still motoring along. I wonder if Kebede will move up.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:00 am

Mutai (1.40.47) being chased by Kebede, who's only 28 seconds adrift at 40km
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:01 am

Was that a 16:00 for 35-40k split?! And Kebede moving up.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:02 am

EPelle wrote:Mutai (1.40.47) being chased by Kebede, who's only 28 seconds adrift at 40km

Looks like that lead has been cut in half, or even more. Kebede is on the move.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:06 am

Reminds me of the 1985 NYC Marathon, when Ahmed Salah looked as if he was going to win, and then he cramps out 2 miles from the finish and Orlando Pizzolato took it.

Tsegaye Kebede 2:06:04.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:07 am

Tsegaye Kebede wins the 2013 London Marathon (his second London victory [2010]) in 2.06.03 (61.36|64.27) over course record-holder Emmanuel Mutai (2.04.40 PB London 2011).

Kebede's PB is 2.05.18, and he'd run a 2.05.19 and 2.05.20 previously at London 2010 and 2009, respectively.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:15 am

Patrick Makau 2:14:10. I imagine Makau and many others are going to get smacked hard when the year-end rankings are released. This is bad enough that even another WR might not be enough for him to rank in the top 3. He'll have to win the World Champs marathon, and at least come thisclose to his WR, in Moscow or anywhere else.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:18 am

Some of those 2:05-2:06 runners should have run a Jason Hartman (or Meb) race.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:19 am

They did not race London the way you should race it; even the most experienced screw up, we see. Shame in such pleasant conditions, when a sensible first half should have been the order of the day.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby aaronk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:21 am

In order for a man to run a WR (under 2:03.....since I'm using the 2:03:02 WB here!!)...he needs to....

1. Be capable of running a half-marathon at least 3 minutes faster than his halfway split would be......i.e. under 58:30. This gives him the psychological boost of knowing he can handle a 1:01:30 pace with relative ease.......as a 59:00 or 59:30 guy would have to run inside of 2 minutes of his A-T best at half the distance. Hard to get your mind in gear for that. Too painful....psychologically.

2. Be capable of running under 27:00 for 10K on the track. He'd be running slower.....much slower!!.....pace in the marathon....but track running gives you better pace judgment than road running does!! I'd suggest an interval workout of 20 one milers....with maybe 60 seconds between each one......in 4:40 for each....or faster!!

For these reasons.....these guys who race MAINLY on the roads.....will have a VERY difficult time getting below 2:03:00......or even 2:03:38!!

Just my humble opinion!!
(BTW.....I ran a dozen marathons in my time......MUCH slower than these guys....2:56:02 best......but I KNOW about what's needed psychologically!! At least what I needed!!
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby aaronk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:31 am

lionelp1 wrote:They did not race London the way you should race it; even the most experienced screw up, we see. Shame in such pleasant conditions, when a sensible first half should have been the order of the day.


What's "sensible"??
If your intention is to run 2:03.......then a 1:01:30 first half is right on pace....EXACTLY on pace.
They hit the half in 1:01:34, the announcer said.
Unless you feel that negative splits would be easier!
But how "slow" would you have them go the first half....if they say they want a 2:03??
1:02 or slower??
Then they'd have to pull out a sub 1:01 for the last half!!
(Although Jeptoo ran over three minutes faster in her second half!! :shock: )
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:54 am

Kenyan Marathon winner Jeptoo in surprise statement for a Kenyan in saying "I'm very very happy" after the race.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby nevetsllim » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:38 am

aaronk wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:They did not race London the way you should race it; even the most experienced screw up, we see. Shame in such pleasant conditions, when a sensible first half should have been the order of the day.


What's "sensible"??
If your intention is to run 2:03.......then a 1:01:30 first half is right on pace....EXACTLY on pace.
They hit the half in 1:01:34, the announcer said.
Unless you feel that negative splits would be easier!
But how "slow" would you have them go the first half....if they say they want a 2:03??
1:02 or slower??
Then they'd have to pull out a sub 1:01 for the last half!!
(Although Jeptoo ran over three minutes faster in her second half!! :shock: )


If your intention is to run 2:03, you don't run through 10km in 28:55 (or whatever the split was).

But let's face it, they were never going to run 2:03. Those sorts of times are run in Berlin or Frankfurt when there isn't that depth of competition which allows them to focus on the clock.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Master Po » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:16 am

More to discuss about pacing, etc. for ideally fast marathons, but along the way we should give Kebede his due -- he is a great competitor. Look at his career marathon stats (per all-athletics.com):

2007
Amsterdam 2:08:16 (8th)
2008
Paris 2:06:40 (1st)
OG/Beijing 2:10:00 (3rd/bronze)
Fukuoka 2:06:10 (1st)
2009
London 2:05:20 (2nd)
WC/Berlin 2:08:20 (3rd/bronze)
Fukuoka 2:015:18 (1st)
2010
London 2:015:19 (1st)
Chicago 2:06:43 (2nd)
2011
London 2:07:48 (5th)
NYC 2:07:13 (3rd)
2012
London 2:06:52 (3rd)
Chicago 2:04:38 (1st)
2013
London 2:06:03 (1st)

14 marathons -- all in elite level international races: 6 wins; 2 @ 2nd; 4 @ 3rd (including two championship medals). Since his debut, he's finished "outside the medals" only once in 13 other starts. Only one "bad" race -- for him -- was London 2011, when he merely ran a 2:07:48 for 5th. Lots of credit to him today. Running a 2:06 off a 1:01:30 first half, and coming from behind to win, I am sure was difficult.

I will be curious to see if Ethiopia offers him a slot on their WC team. He is 6th on their 2013 list, behind 4@2:04 from Dubai, and Regassa's 2:05 win at Rotterdam.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:24 am

nevetsllim wrote:
aaronk wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:They did not race London the way you should race it; even the most experienced screw up, we see. Shame in such pleasant conditions, when a sensible first half should have been the order of the day.


What's "sensible"??
If your intention is to run 2:03.......then a 1:01:30 first half is right on pace....EXACTLY on pace.
They hit the half in 1:01:34, the announcer said.
Unless you feel that negative splits would be easier!
But how "slow" would you have them go the first half....if they say they want a 2:03??
1:02 or slower??
Then they'd have to pull out a sub 1:01 for the last half!!
(Although Jeptoo ran over three minutes faster in her second half!! :shock: )


If your intention is to run 2:03, you don't run through 10km in 28:55 (or whatever the split was).

But let's face it, they were never going to run 2:03. Those sorts of times are run in Berlin or Frankfurt when there isn't that depth of competition which allows them to focus on the clock.


Why the silly talk by Aaronk about a 2.03 as if the athletes discussed it beforehand and thought they could do it on the London course. The fact, to people who know the course and the publicity pressures, is that several world class runners made a mess of their strategy.Just got carried away on the day.Slowest time for a while I think.
I suggest that Aaronk sticks to his expertise on Mary Cain or college boys and girls in the USA :lol:

BTW the essence of the race, as always, is to win as Kebede would point out ; the time does not matter a tinkers cuss, except to certain posters who are sadly obsessed , unhealthily, with times.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:41 am

Nobody would have opined, before the start of the race on a pleasant windless day, that the top Kenyans would have performed so poorly. 2.07,2.08 and 2.14 !! As Robert Johnson of Letsrun rightly said the Gods of the Marathon were rightly pissed off by the crazy running of the first half.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:51 am

Master Po wrote:More to discuss about pacing, etc. for ideally fast marathons, but along the way we should give Kebede his due -- he is a great competitor.

14 marathons -- all in elite level international races: 6 wins; 2 @ 2nd; 4 @ 3rd (including two championship medals). Since his debut, he's finished "outside the medals" only once in 13 other starts. Only one "bad" race -- for him -- was London 2011, when he merely ran a 2:07:48 for 5th. Lots of credit to him today. Running a 2:06 off a 1:01:30 first half, and coming from behind to win, I am sure was difficult.

. . .

I will be curious to see if Ethiopia offers him a slot on their WC team. He is 6th on their 2013 list, behind 4@2:04 from Dubai, and Regassa's 2:05 win at Rotterdam.


I'm wondering also. Ethiopia would have profited by selecting Kebede for the Olympics. Here's hoping they learn from last year's mistake ... although the lure of a Fall marathon might outweigh the WC for Kebede. The WC just doesn't have the weight of an Olympic marathon.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:02 am

Just goes to show that noone is ready to run 2:03 (let alone break 2:00) when you have perfect weather, pacing, and (greatest field ever).
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby portsea57 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:32 am

They'll have to sort out the problem of wheelchair athletes and runners colliding!
The womens' race surely changed by the incident ... and spoilt!
Haven't the organisers heard of "risk assessment"!
Those wheelchair athletes were certainly not going to take any prisoners!
I'm pretty sure that, at one time, the wheelchair athletes started off well ahead of any runners.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:36 am

Just saw the replay of the collision. No one thought that might happen? Pretty idiotic. Hard to fault the runners.

Never been a big fan of the wheelchair people in marathons. More like cycling.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby aaronk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:41 am

Conor Dary wrote:Just saw the replay of the collision. No one thought that might happen? Pretty idiotic. Hard to fault the runners.

Never been a big fan of the wheelchair people in marathons. More like cycling.


Don't "pedestrians" (runners, in this case!) always have the "right of way"??

Yep, fault goes to the wheelchair "driver"!!
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:54 pm

Aside from the driving/running aspect he was coming from behind and should be DQed for interfering with another runner from behind. She has no way possible to be looking out for him.

The organizers, hopefully, will recognize their multitude of errors here and correct it for next time.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:15 pm

26mi235 wrote:Aside from the driving/running aspect he was coming from behind and should be DQed for interfering with another runner from behind. She has no way possible to be looking out for him.

The organizers, hopefully, will recognize their multitude of errors here and correct it for next time.

Maybe next year they'll run all of the wheelchair races before the elite women's race. That is what I think Boston, Chicago and New York do. Bad move to send them off after the women.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:51 pm

Those various traffic islands make it harder for the runners and WCs to be in the same vicinity.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:51 pm

CookyMonzta wrote: Bad move to send them off after the women.


It is kind of amazing they do that. I don't think I would want to be in a race knowing those guys, going 20+ mph, are coming up behind you. And the guy who knocked her down was definitely at fault. What a chucklehead.

PS. Of course, at they didn't get bitten by their opponent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22242454
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Blues » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:34 pm

26mi235 wrote:Aside from the driving/running aspect he was coming from behind and should be DQed for interfering with another runner from behind. She has no way possible to be looking out for him.

The organizers, hopefully, will recognize their multitude of errors here and correct it for next time.


To be honest, had I been the involved wheelchair athlete, I don't know how I could have avoided the collision in that situation, after a slower athlete changed lanes suddenly and cut right in front of me... I find it hard to blame Josh Cassidy, as long as he wasn't in an area of the course that he wasn't permitted to be in, and since a wheelchair is considerably less maneuverable than a pair of legs are... To me, it seems like the fault should lie with the race organizers for not taking adequate precautions to avoid problems like this.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:18 pm

Don't blame Josh Cassidy, blame the race director. No excuse for this level of stupidity.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby nevetsllim » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:07 am

aaronk wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Just saw the replay of the collision. No one thought that might happen? Pretty idiotic. Hard to fault the runners.

Never been a big fan of the wheelchair people in marathons. More like cycling.


Don't "pedestrians" (runners, in this case!) always have the "right of way"??

Yep, fault goes to the wheelchair "driver"!!


Nobody was to blame. The wheelchair racers always start before the women and nothing like this, to my memory, has ever happened before (although I've somewhat worried something might). It was just unfortunate they happened to meet at the feed station at the same time on a very narrow stretch of the road, which in itself should perhaps be addressed too. If anyone is to blame, it's the race organisers!
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby John G » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:26 am

Just read the statements from London Marathon, Gelana and Cassidy on the front page. How fortunate that both athletes both appear to have law degrees and are able to craft such elegantly worded statements!!

And how very reasonable of them not to blame London Marathon in any way. I suspect they have both already been signed up to compete next year for very generous fees.

I know the blame and litigation culture has gone too far but this was an accident waiting to happen - either start the WC race first or give them feed stations on the other side of the road.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby portsea57 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:15 am

Don't ever have wheelchairs and runners on the same piece of road, again !
It's as simple as that!
Those wheelchair athletes were not going to stop for anyone.
Call it being in the zone, if you like.
I call it being totally irresponsible!
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby JumboElliott » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:45 am

How was it irresponsible? It wasn't his fault that he was forced to play catchup on a bunch of much slower runners.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby bobguild76 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:12 am

On the high seas, the burden is always with the overtaking vessel. Same in aviation.

The driving imperative in these marathons has been to stagger the start times so as to compress the finish of the various races (men's, women's, m wheelchair, w wheelchair, visually impaired, etc) into a reasonably short time span. That imperative, as we saw in London, impacted another one, namely the safety of the runners.

When a marathon starts the elite women before the elite men, it isn't a problem because runners overtaking runners happens all the time, and the awareness and etiquette are quite natural. However, when it comes to a race that mixes runners with wheelchair racers, we just saw what can happen. Common sense should rule the day ...

1. Start the wheelchairs first.
2. End of story.

The wheelchair racers will finish well before the runners, which means that the tv coverage of the wheelchair finish will take place while the elite women's race is still unfolding. As it is now, the wheelchair finish happens just as the late race surges are being made. I would much rather miss 5 minutes of coverage at the 15 or 20k stage of the race than miss those same 5 minutes at the 30 or 35k stage.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:33 am

They should just get rid of the wheelchair races and have a race for orphans next year. The Oliver Twist Marathon. They could have gruel at the aid stations.
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Re: London Marathon Thread

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:18 am

I stand by my contention it was the wheelchair "driver's" fault!!
On any road, in any country (I believe....but not certain of this!), pedestrians.....or those on foot......have the RIGHT OF WAY......against ANY vehicle...whether it's a NASCAR car, a wheelchair made to race, a bicycle from the Tour de France, or even a skateboard propelled by a pimply-faced teenager!!!

He (the wheelchair driver) had the RESPONSIBILITY to avoid hitting a person on foot!
PERIOD!!!

That said, the organizers were IDIOTS for setting up a situation in which such an event MIGHT happen!!

Thus, next year....and anywhere wheelchairs are mixed with runners (or walkers!)....the wheelchairs MUST start first!!

And if they hit anyone.....for ANY reason....they should be disqualified from the race.....just as a runner might be if they cause another runner to be injured, or kept from running their standard race.

Maybe that's harsh.....but a speeding vehicle is a potentially lethal weapon.....and the driver who doesn't know how to use that weapon safely and responsibly....should be held accountable!!
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