the Boston bombers thread


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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby tandfman » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:49 am

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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:07 am

tandfman wrote:Noted without comment:

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/bo ... tment.html


Some people are pretty clueless. My sister has a cart down at Faneuil Hall and sells shirts and similar items and pulled all of the Marathon stuff out Monday. It seemed to be in bad taste to try to keep selling.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:43 pm

The latest: FBI: Two Suspects Pinpointed In Boston Marathon Bombings (VIDEO)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/us/bo ... ms.html?hp

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-inve ... -in-boston

But as noted yesterday, who knows.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby mcgato » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:11 pm

Bob Duncan wrote:Link to smokinggun crap
Check the video that the FBI released and check the smokinggun article. Tell me that they are wearing the same clothes. Let's all just stop posting links to the crazies out there.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:26 pm

mcgato wrote:
Bob Duncan wrote:Link to smokinggun crap
Check the video that the FBI released and check the smokinggun article. Tell me that they are wearing the same clothes. Let's all just stop posting links to the crazies out there.


Those two guys were being pointed out as "suspects" by various media outlets yesterday.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [arrest made?]

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:27 pm

Conor Dary wrote:The latest: FBI: Two Suspects Pinpointed In Boston Marathon Bombings (VIDEO)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/us/bo ... ms.html?hp

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-inve ... -in-boston

But as noted yesterday, who knows.


The guy in the white hat appears pretty involved. It would take a pretty amazing set of coincidences for him not to be part of it.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby EPelle » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:32 am

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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Pego » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:00 am

The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:42 am

Of Chechen origin.

Releasing the photos was the key.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Master Po » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:00 am

Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.


Assuming for a moment that these two turn out to be the murderers in this/these incidents, we'll probably never have any sort of explanation of their motives that would make a whole lot of sense. What I have read on NY Times, Boston Globe and CNN Web sites today says they moved to the USA several years ago, perhaps as early as 2002 (one source states that year, others say "more than five years"). One of these guys is 19, the other 26. If they have been here since 2002, that means the younger was ~8-9 yo when they arrived, the other ~15-16yo. Both HS graduates, both involved in their schools, both in sports; the younger reported as being a college student this year; the older had been one in the past few years. Granting all the difficulties of making one's way into a new culture that immigrants face, much of what is being reported in the news about them -- assuming it turns out to be accurate -- is pretty typical immigrant stories. Actually, better that some, if they had succeeded in graduating HS and going on to college. So that leaves me where I always am at such moments -- what prompts a person or persons to decide that such a course of action is a good idea? Who the hell knows. So sad, for everyone killed, injured, and in every other way harmed by these people, and sad also -- in a slightly different way -- for anyone related to these men, who now have to live with that.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby jeremyp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:01 am

My suspicion is that the older brother was the "leader" and the younger kid followed along. It's quite common in these duos for one to be the aggressive one and the other to be the patsy, or weaker one. Getting out from the influence of an older, stronger personality (and in this case sibling) is difficult. The Columbine guys and the Washington snipers come to mind.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby jeremyp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:02 am

I also read that the older one's favorite movie was "Borat." I'm sure Marlow will agree that anyone with this kind of taste has to be dangerous. :D
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby DrJay » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:12 am

Tragic all around, but as they watch the CNN feed with 10 or 15 cops standing around in every scene and hundreds of others pulling overtime, is anyone else thinking, man, Dunkin' Donuts must be doing a ton of business this week?
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:25 am

DrJay wrote:Tragic all around, but as they watch the CNN feed with 10 or 15 cops standing around in every scene and hundreds of others pulling overtime, is anyone else thinking, man, Dunkin' Donuts must be doing a ton of business this week?



Apparently the city asked DD to stay open. Boston cops love donuts. Everyone else is closed in the town.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:54 pm

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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:49 pm

Well it looks like it is over.

I suppose that boat will be on ebay soon. :roll:
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby JRM » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:52 pm

They caught him. Suspect in custody.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:04 pm

Amazing they caught him alive.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:11 pm

Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.

What I don't understand is how attacking the U.S. could further their cause. SHouldn't they be trying to kill Russians?
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:44 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.

What I don't understand is how attacking the U.S. could further their cause. SHouldn't they be trying to kill Russians?

These people all believe that the USA is the great Satan, not Russia.

When I was Minister of Immigration for NZ in the late 1990s I tried to bring in lie detector tests as an interview option when considering the grant of residence status for those being considered under the refugee asylum options. For example, depending on your origin and/or background I would ask asylum seekers questions such as:
1. Were you orgasmically happy watching the events of 911? or perhaps
2. Do you believe in honour killing?
3. Were you ecstatic when Lord Mountbatten was blown to smithereens by the IRA?

If they set the bells off on answering, then the decision on their application is easy - you can go back to your sh** hole. My theory was that on the balance of probabilities their answers convinced me I did not want such people in NZ. Unfortunately the woolly lefty liberal civil servants that dominate every Government Department in NZ were able to roadblock this idea until such time as I was no longer Minster.
Last edited by Tuariki on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Pego » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:02 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.

What I don't understand is how attacking the U.S. could further their cause. SHouldn't they be trying to kill Russians?


Nothing that I heard so far makes much sense.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:45 pm

We will have to see what links there are with the older brother; there is some indication of foreign links.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Blues » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.

What I don't understand is how attacking the U.S. could further their cause. SHouldn't they be trying to kill Russians?


Earlier today there was much speculation in the media regarding a possibility of ties to the Islamic Jihad Union, along with some discussion regarding the 6 or 7 months the older brother spent away in Russia last year. If they WERE involved with the IJU, attacks on the US might not seem so out of place.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/national ... n-20130419
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby BillVol » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:22 pm

Thank God the other guy is in custody.

I am proud of and admire our law enforcement people and think these guys did a good job. But a few questions...

1. The FBI interviewed the older brother just two years ago after being warned by a foreign government about his extremism. But when they came up with photos/video of the two brothers, they were not able to identify him. With today's sophisticated technology. I wonder why. Maybe they didn't take a picture of him. Did no FBI agent remember him? This sort of reminds me of the 9/11 hijackers, who had all kinds of clues about these people but did not follow up.

2. After the shootout last night, how was the younger brother able to escape????? Hundreds of officers everywhere! Police cruisers! Probably helicopters! K-9s! The guy was shot and as it turns out is in serious condition! But he got away! They asked the Mass. state police head how he got away. "On foot." And he managed to elude capture for several hours!

3. During the search today, they had already searched the house with the boat and I think actually searched the boat. I thought I heard that he was in the shed behind the house and then got into the boat. Is this right? It took a tip from the boat owner to tell the police where this guy was. What happened here?
Last edited by BillVol on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:40 pm

BillVol wrote:Thank God the other guy is in custody.

I am proud of and admire our law enforcement people and think these guys did a good job. But a few questions...

1. The FBI interviewed the older brother just two years ago after being warned by a foreign government about his extremism. But when they came up with photos/video of the two brothers, they were not able to identify him. Even with today's sophisticated technology. I wonder why. Maybe they didn't take a picture of him. Did no FBI agent remember him? This sort of reminds me of the 9/11 hijackers, who had all kinds of clues about these people but did not follow up.

2. After the shootout last night, how was the younger brother able to escape????? Hundreds of officers everywhere! Police cruisers! Probably helicopters! K-9s! The guy was shot and as it turns out is in serious condition! But he got away! They asked the Mass. state police head how he got away. "On foot." And he managed to elude capture for several hours!

3. During the search today, they had already searched the house with the boat and I think actually searched the boat. I thought I heard that he was in the shed behind the house and then got into the boat. Is this right? It took a tip from the boat owner to tell the police where this guy was. What happened here?


I think your estimation of how easy some of this is to police is a tad presumptuous. It's not a Law and Order episode.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:49 pm

BillVol wrote:Thank God the other guy is in custody.
3. During the search today, they had already searched the house with the boat and I think actually searched the boat. I thought I heard that he was in the shed behind the house and then got into the boat. Is this right? It took a tip from the boat owner to tell the police where this guy was. What happened here?


No, the house was a block outside their search area. They did not search it.

The guy said that something did no0t look right on the boat. It might be that he had to cut the cover some to get it. It has a zipper but that might not have been locked.

What is the over/under on the guy getting a new boat? :wink:
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby aaronk » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:54 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
BillVol wrote:Thank God the other guy is in custody.

I am proud of and admire our law enforcement people and think these guys did a good job. But a few questions...

1. The FBI interviewed the older brother just two years ago after being warned by a foreign government about his extremism. But when they came up with photos/video of the two brothers, they were not able to identify him. Even with today's sophisticated technology. I wonder why. Maybe they didn't take a picture of him. Did no FBI agent remember him? This sort of reminds me of the 9/11 hijackers, who had all kinds of clues about these people but did not follow up.

2. After the shootout last night, how was the younger brother able to escape????? Hundreds of officers everywhere! Police cruisers! Probably helicopters! K-9s! The guy was shot and as it turns out is in serious condition! But he got away! They asked the Mass. state police head how he got away. "On foot." And he managed to elude capture for several hours!

3. During the search today, they had already searched the house with the boat and I think actually searched the boat. I thought I heard that he was in the shed behind the house and then got into the boat. Is this right? It took a tip from the boat owner to tell the police where this guy was. What happened here?


I think your estimation of how easy some of this is to police is a tad presumptuous. It's not a Law and Order episode.


Now, if it were Old Andy Sipowitz on the hunt.......!! :lol:
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:21 pm

aaronk wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
BillVol wrote:Thank God the other guy is in custody.

I am proud of and admire our law enforcement people and think these guys did a good job. But a few questions...

1. The FBI interviewed the older brother just two years ago after being warned by a foreign government about his extremism. But when they came up with photos/video of the two brothers, they were not able to identify him. Even with today's sophisticated technology. I wonder why. Maybe they didn't take a picture of him. Did no FBI agent remember him? This sort of reminds me of the 9/11 hijackers, who had all kinds of clues about these people but did not follow up.

2. After the shootout last night, how was the younger brother able to escape????? Hundreds of officers everywhere! Police cruisers! Probably helicopters! K-9s! The guy was shot and as it turns out is in serious condition! But he got away! They asked the Mass. state police head how he got away. "On foot." And he managed to elude capture for several hours!

3. During the search today, they had already searched the house with the boat and I think actually searched the boat. I thought I heard that he was in the shed behind the house and then got into the boat. Is this right? It took a tip from the boat owner to tell the police where this guy was. What happened here?


I think your estimation of how easy some of this is to police is a tad presumptuous. It's not a Law and Order episode.


Now, if it were Old Andy Sipowitz on the hunt.......!! :lol:


My father was NYPD and he always said that the most realistic TV show about police was Barney Miller. He didn't think any of the procedural dramas had any much reality to them.

You're right though...Andy would have tracked these guys down post haste. That was NYPD Blue btw.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:12 pm

Tuariki wrote:These people all believe that the USA is the great Satan, not Russia.

Who do you mean "these people"?

Tuariki wrote:Unfortunately the woolly lefty liberal civil servants that dominate every Government Department in NZ were able to roadblock this idea until such time as I was no longer Minster.

:roll:
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:31 pm

26mi235 wrote:We will have to see what links there are with the older brother; there is some indication of foreign links.

He spent about 6 months in Russia and Chechnya during 2012. I think he gradually approached the Islamist camp. Had no friends in America, did not understand them but wanted to box for the US in the Oympics! It seems his younger brother was much more Americanized, spoke with no accent, liked partying etc.
But I want to know this: Why were they near MIT? There is an atomic research reactor there. Co-incidence? Also how many weapons did they have and bombing material. How were they lugging all this stuff around. What is known about the place they lived?
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:26 pm

They were near MIT because all of that stuff is close by; they lived not far from there. The research reactor is not much of a risk, I do not think (I will ask the expert in a few minutes and revise this if she thinks otherwise - she has three strong areas relevant to that question).
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [1 suspect shot; manhunt on]

Postby shivfan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:49 pm

Well, the older brother came to America aged 15, and the younger one aged eight I think, so while the older one may have Chechen influences, the younger one has spent his formative years in America....

There are possibly issues of domestic terrorism of a different sort to find answers for here...what would make an American citizen who happens to be Muslim want to become a terrorist in his own country? Islamophobia? These are just questions that those who plan for the future will need to address....
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby eldanielfire » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:08 am

Tuariki wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Pego wrote:The reports say that they might be brothers from Russian Caucasus. If they turn out to be Chechnyan terrorists, I would be totally clueless, never having expected anything of this sort. While Chechnyan terrorists are Muslims, their cause is a lot more nationalistic than religious.

What I don't understand is how attacking the U.S. could further their cause. SHouldn't they be trying to kill Russians?

These people all believe that the USA is the great Satan, not Russia.

When I was Minister of Immigration for NZ in the late 1990s I tried to bring in lie detector tests as an interview option when considering the grant of residence status for those being considered under the refugee asylum options. For example, depending on your origin and/or background I would ask asylum seekers questions such as:
1. Were you orgasmically happy watching the events of 911? or perhaps
2. Do you believe in honour killing?
3. Were you ecstatic when Lord Mountbatten was blown to smithereens by the IRA?

If they set the bells off on answering, then the decision on their application is easy - you can go back to your sh** hole. My theory was that on the balance of probabilities their answers convinced me I did not want such people in NZ. Unfortunately the woolly lefty liberal civil servants that dominate every Government Department in NZ were able to roadblock this idea until such time as I was no longer Minster.


If you think some muslims, especially Chechyans in the separatist camp, don't hate Russia you really have little knowledge of the matter. However Russia has a unique position that some muslim groups hate or fera each other and Russia is basically the biggest stabilising force in parts of the middle east. Hence why the USA, Uk and France shouldn't have overridden them on Syria which is increasingly getting fucked up.

Also lie detectors are bollocks. Marion Jones defeated it with no problems.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:09 am

eldanielfire wrote:Also lie detectors are bollocks. Marion Jones defeated it with no problems.


Logical fallicy: because there is one counter example, all cases will 'fail' [It is cold in Madison in the winter -- It was 68 degrees on February 13, 1992, so Madison is not cold in the winter.]
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish [suspects on video?]

Postby Pego » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:14 am

26mi235 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:Also lie detectors are bollocks. Marion Jones defeated it with no problems.


Logical fallicy: because there is one counter example, all cases will 'fail' [It is cold in Madison in the winter -- It was 68 degrees on February 13, 1992, so Madison is not cold in the winter.]


I am not going to argue principles of logic :wink: , but eldanielfire is correct in his position that a polygraph as a reliable interrogation tool has been thoroughly discredited.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish

Postby Halfmiler2 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:41 am

jeremyp wrote:
Halfmiler2 wrote:
jeremyp wrote:The fact that it was Patriot's day and that Oklahoma City and Waco were on Patriot's day might mean a home grown terrorist attack. Might!


You could just as easily suggest that a foreign terrorist would target the middle of the pack which is largely American as opposed to the top finishers which were largely not American. I suggest letting the investigators do their work and see what they find. And pray for the victims and their families.

Which is why I used the word: Might! 2x.


And why you would have been better off using the words "might not" instead.
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Re: Explosions at Boston finish

Postby Daisy » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:37 am

jeremyp's point seemed like valid speculation to me. And we're all still speculating about the motive. It's human.

As to Madison avg temps in Feb, the avg high is 67 so that's not too far off.
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Re: the Boston bombers thread

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:29 am

Actually, since 1948, the maximum 'on-the-hour' reading for Madison has never been as high as 67. The is one year with a 66, two with 65, four with 64, and two with 63. Thus, only one year in seven has a temperature reading that high, and since any reading between 65.1 and 66.0 gets recorded as 66, there is probably no value in those 65 years that is probably as high as 66. only 0.5% of February days has a high reading of 62.1 or higher.

Lie detector tests do not have 100% accuracy, but they have a lot higher accuracy than 0%.
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Re: the Boston bombers thread

Postby Pego » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:41 am

26mi235 wrote:Lie detector tests do not have 100% accuracy, but they have a lot higher accuracy than 0%.


Yes, more than 0%, but not nearly enough to be reliable.
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