What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby wineturtle » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:00 pm

and do you have to file with the IAAF, WADA or USADA?
thanks
wineturtle
 
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Astoria Queens New York

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby MJR » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:56 pm

There is a form that you submit to USATF to announce your retirement and remove yourself from the OOC Testing Pool.
MJR
 
Posts: 1813
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: on walkabout....

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:26 pm

As miler Chris Lukezic discovered a couple of years back (there's a thread out there, I believe), you can't just walk away from the sport without USADA publicly besmirching your image. Somebody should sue the bastards.

Here's the rules

http://www.usada.org/retire/

It's not just a USADA thing, track people (and swimming) as you'll note from that link, have to formally go through the federation (USATF for track).

Hey, I've got an idea! How about if somebody misses that many tests you simply ask them if they retired and if they say yes you STFU and go away?

Nobody should have to jump through hoops to get out of a program they probably didn't want to be part of in the first place, but were forced into.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby lonewolf » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:35 pm

How can they penalize you if you no longer compete? What is the penalty? Can they rescind/delete/erase pre-retirement performances?
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby EPelle » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:34 am

gh wrote:As miler Chris Lukezic discovered a couple of years back (there's a thread out there, I believe), ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41251&p=668727
EPelle
 
Posts: 21442
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby batonless relay » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:41 am

This is simple: If they haven't retired, then they need to take the tests; if they have retired, then they need to follow the rules and do the paperwork!
Last edited by batonless relay on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:01 am

batonless relay wrote:gh, you couldn't be more wrong! I know you're concerned about the "PR" hit, but it wouldn't be one if they would just do the right thing. Shawn Crawford, Chris Lukezic and EVERY retiring athlete, owes it to the sport....


We'll have to agree to disagree here.

If anybody owes anybody, it's my take that the sport owes it to the athletes who are generating the bucks that keep the suits in jobs to treat them with a little respect.

ps--Crawford (and by extension, his wife) have no place in this conversation. The question was asked about retirement procedure, and I cited the known case of Lukezic. We don't know for a fact what's up w/ Crawford, and until we do, we'll keep the lid on that.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:49 am

OK, Crawford now a legitimate part of the conversation, since we have some back story.

Coach Bobby Kersee not happy with process (see full story on front page):

"A person who hasn't put on spikes all year, a married man trying to take care of his family and what does he get for the end of his career - a two-year ban? I don't understand."

"If they (drug testers) show up at my track looking for an athlete of mine and for some reason or another I gave them the day off - because maybe their foot was hurting - I can inform them, `Hey, someone is looking for you,' and I'll get them there," Kersee said. "But no one has come up to me and asked for a drug test for Shawn all year."
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby batonless relay » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:03 am

I stand by my post that if you stop running (no spikes this year) then you have to "retire" officially. That said, I will change my other post and wait for more information.
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby jjimbojames » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:29 am

gh wrote:OK, Crawford now a legitimate part of the conversation, since we have some back story.

Coach Bobby Kersee not happy with process (see full story on front page):

"A person who hasn't put on spikes all year, a married man trying to take care of his family and what does he get for the end of his career - a two-year ban? I don't understand."

"If they (drug testers) show up at my track looking for an athlete of mine and for some reason or another I gave them the day off - because maybe their foot was hurting - I can inform them, `Hey, someone is looking for you,' and I'll get them there," Kersee said. "But no one has come up to me and asked for a drug test for Shawn all year."

All depends on where his stated place was for the testers, but they wouldn't go to the coach to inform him of a surprise visit! Secondly - surely after you've missed tests the first and second time you'd think to just simply tell the authorities you'd retired, to save everyone the hassle. I thought people were informed each time they missed a test, no?
jjimbojames
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:16 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:06 pm

batonless relay wrote:I stand by my post that if you stop running (no spikes this year) then you have to "retire" officially. That said, I will change my other post and wait for more information.


It is one thing to gets a PEDs test and fail it. The sport does not need the stupid non-drug drug bans that garner mention in the press and make the sport look dirtier when it can be avoided by a systematic process to follow up likely retiring athletes with missing tests. It would be rather easy to do this at the second missed test. Even having the ban conditional on returning to competition (other than, say, maters level) so that people cannot use that route to avoid testing would be easy.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16317
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:56 pm

I'm not saying that people who don't jump through the requisite hoops shouldn't get a penalty of some kind. But we shouldn't be humiliating them publicly, or as 26 says, creating the image of more dirty people.

For example, when the time came, Crawford gets a note from USADA saying, "you are no longer eligible to compete in any meet until you are a re-certified member of the testing program. If you request re-entry into the program, please fill out a whereabouts form and we will send a tester to get a sample from you at some random time of our choosing in the next month. You will be tested every month for the next 6 months, and after those have all been processed as clean, you may resume competition."
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby Marlow » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:28 pm

gh wrote:I'm not saying that people who don't jump through the requisite hoops shouldn't get a penalty of some kind.

Then I'm still clueless . . . I get why one should jump thru hoops TO compete, but why should one have to jump thru them to NOT compete?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21081
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby 18.99s » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:10 pm

Marlow wrote:Then I'm still clueless . . . I get why one should jump thru hoops TO compete, but why should one have to jump thru them to NOT compete?


Exactly. If an athlete over 30 has stopped transmitting their whereabouts and hasn't competed for 9 months nor signed up to compete anywhere, they should presume retirement and notify the athlete of what needs to be done to reinstate their eligibility if they're not really retired. A public drugs-connotated ban should not be the first resort.
18.99s
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:28 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby peach77 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:40 pm

I think that it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that an athlete shouldn't have to "sign off" the drug testing register- how easy would it be for someone to try and evade tests, "retire" and then make a come back (even if it is post 2 years)? An athlete has to sign up to be tested before they can compete (isn't a year?) and I think the simple fact of informing your governing body that you've retired isn't *that* difficult...

However, it's been handled quite badly. Unless there is something we don't know about, there should have been a statement saying "Yes, 2 year ban, but we understand that this may have been an error on the part of the athlete due to XXX"- there's nothing wrong with that at all and would "save" an athlete's reputation (if there's one to save that is!) This was what happened (quite rightly) with Christine Ohuruogo when she was banned and there was the statement made that in no way did the drug testers believe there was evidence to suggest she had taken drugs/was trying to avoid tests purposely, I fail to see why the US authorities couldn't have done the same...
peach77
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:26 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:02 am

This is obviously stupid but SC has to take some responsibility.

If he has missed 2 tests surely he has to be notified of such, if so it would have been very easy for him to call them back and tell them he's retired, so they stopped trying to test him. It can't be the testers responsibility to anticipate what's going on in an athletes head

As Peach points out, if that was the case there would be nothing stopping people just saying they'd retired to avoid tests and then pop make a comeback whenever they liked
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby eldanielfire » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:06 am

mump boy wrote:This is obviously stupid but SC has to take some responsibility.

If he has missed 2 tests surely he has to be notified of such, if so it would have been very easy for him to call them back and tell them he's retired, so they stopped trying to test him. It can't be the testers responsibility to anticipate what's going on in an athletes head

As Peach points out, if that was the case there would be nothing stopping people just saying they'd retired to avoid tests and then pop make a comeback whenever they liked


It's possible he did tell them when he contacted them.

recently month after month I kept getting phone calls on why I haven't paid my bill. Each time I'd pay and re-give my details for the direct debit to start again and they would even tell me the date of the next payment and that it had been approved, next month the same thing again and again until I asked for a manager having been pissed about it constantly happening despite being told it was fine each time. Maybe something similar happened?

"You missed a drug test? But I retired, I'm letting you guys know, that ok?

"OK, I'll log it on our system"

"This is your 2nd missed test? I told you guys I was retired"

"Sorry, that must have not been documented, I'll do that now!"

"Thanks"

"This is you third test.........."
eldanielfire
 
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:07 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby Marlow » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:08 am

peach77 wrote:I think that it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that an athlete shouldn't have to "sign off" the drug testing register

According to news reports, his coach said Crawford DID file his retirement papers with USATF, so why is it not also their responsibility to forward that info on behalf of the athlete they are supposed to be supporting?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21081
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:11 am

mump boy wrote:This is obviously stupid but SC has to take some responsibility.

If he has missed 2 tests surely he has to be notified of such,...


Do you know that he was notified? If he was not then is does NOT need to take some responsibility? From the facts I have seen (not too much) I would give even odds that he was not notified.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16317
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:47 am

Marlow wrote:
peach77 wrote:I think that it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that an athlete shouldn't have to "sign off" the drug testing register

According to news reports, his coach said Crawford DID file his retirement papers with USATF, so why is it not also their responsibility to forward that info on behalf of the athlete they are supposed to be supporting?


<<There is paperwork an athlete needs to fill out in order to officially retire and be removed from the out-of-competition testing pool. U.S. Track and Field spokeswoman Jill Geer said Crawford filed his retirement papers this year.>>

If he filed this year it was too late; the third strike was incurred last November, not this year.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:49 am

mump boy wrote:....
As Peach points out, if that was the case there would be nothing stopping people just saying they'd retired to avoid tests and then pop make a comeback whenever they liked


Actually, there is something stopping them. I can't cite chapter and verse on timeframes, but you need to go through a re-entry period during which you're back in the testing pool before you're cleared for competition again. The various ADA people are obviously satisfied that whatever that protocol is, it's sufficient to ensure a level playing field when somebody returns.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby Pego » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:54 am

...and people are wondering why are individual sports dying :shock: . All of this bureaucracy must be quite discouraging.
Pego
 
Posts: 10197
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:42 am

Obviously if he did actually officially retire and fill in the forms then he did take his responsibility but if he did so why hasn't he objected to the ban and shown the paperwork ?

Of course it makes no sense to ban someone who had retired but how are WADA or whoever did these tests supposed to know that if they're not informed and why should be believe someone after they've been caught. For all they know he's been training and doping in a secret location, ready to come out and have his best year ever, they HAVE to work on worst case scenario.

As i said before, he was presumably informed of he prior missed tests, so there was ample opportunity to double check if the retirement had ben registered.

Maybe as these tests are over an 18 month period he missed 2 of them were before he 'retired'.
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby gh » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:47 am

mump boy wrote:... For all they know he's been training and doping in a secret location, ready to come out and have his best year ever, ....


please stop spouting this foolishness.... if you haven't been part of the program, you have an "extended" waiting time while you're in the program before you're allowed to compete again. The whole thing was set up by the ADA groups to prevent just this sort of thing.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby Blues » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:07 am

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:... For all they know he's been training and doping in a secret location, ready to come out and have his best year ever, ....


please stop spouting this foolishness.... if you haven't been part of the program, you have an "extended" waiting time while you're in the program before you're allowed to compete again. The whole thing was set up by the ADA groups to prevent just this sort of thing.


As gh has stated, after announcing a return from retirement, an athlete has to be back in the registered drug testing pool for at least 6 months prior to any competition.
Blues
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:58 am

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby ATK » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:15 am

Blues wrote:
gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:... For all they know he's been training and doping in a secret location, ready to come out and have his best year ever, ....


please stop spouting this foolishness.... if you haven't been part of the program, you have an "extended" waiting time while you're in the program before you're allowed to compete again. The whole thing was set up by the ADA groups to prevent just this sort of thing.


As gh has stated, after announcing a return from retirement, an athlete has to be back in the registered drug testing pool for at least 6 months prior to any competition.

So what about an athlete like Kim Collins? I could have sworn he has retired like 3 times in the past 4 years.

Also does anyone have any other instances where this has happened? Or is Crawford just the most high profile athlete to get banned when he wanted to retire?
ATK
 
Posts: 3804
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: What is the retirement protocol for pro USATF athletes?

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:31 am

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:... For all they know he's been training and doping in a secret location, ready to come out and have his best year ever, ....


please stop spouting this foolishness.... if you haven't been part of the program, you have an "extended" waiting time while you're in the program before you're allowed to compete again. The whole thing was set up by the ADA groups to prevent just this sort of thing.


Way to misunderstand what i said

He's apparently never officially retired therefore if he wanted to cheat he could do so and then if gets caught announce he was retiring, if he didn't get caught he's free to compete having doped all winter.

I'm not saying this is what happened just that testers have to assume this
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dave, Google [Bot] and 13 guests