PR for Christian Taylor


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PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gh » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:52 am

nothing but good things happen when horizontal jumpers get good sprint PRs. Christian Taylor down to 20.70 (old best 20.76) in Jacksonville yesterday. Wind 0.9.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:04 pm

18 m?
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:09 pm

Far off the "Elite TJer WR' of Mike Conley: 20.21.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:34 pm

Christian's more of a quarter-miler anyway.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby leoesharkey » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:02 pm

What was the english triple jump champion Jonathan Edwards at 10.5 and 7.40m in the LJ? yet was multiple world olympic medalist and champion? five world medals and two olympic ann simultaneously euro and c'wealth champion at the same time? but very moderate sprinter jumper compared to US triple jumpers.... :!:
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby leoesharkey » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:05 pm

I meant to put up a :?: not a :!: LOL
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Stafanitus » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:04 pm

leoesharkey wrote:What was the english triple jump champion Jonathan Edwards at 10.5 and 7.40m in the LJ? yet was multiple world olympic medalist and champion? five world medals and two olympic ann simultaneously euro and c'wealth champion at the same time? but very moderate sprinter jumper compared to US triple jumpers.... :!:


Good morning.
Please do not rely to much on other event results from specialists without certain conditioning or seasoning. For edwards there are some quotes from Colin Jackson aswell as Linford Christie, who told to loose against Edwards over 30m.
Being able to approach with 10,9m/s also means much more than 10,5 for 100m.
Having set some 6,80m-hops also clears that this 7,40 longjump doesnt mean anything. When did Edwards longjump last time?
Greatings.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby br » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:07 am

Taylor ran anchor on the Great Britain TC "A" team that ran 38.84 last week at the Florida Relays.
Looked like he was making up some ground towards the end of his leg.

http://www.flotrack.org/speaker/2883-Ch ... ylor/video
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gh » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:37 am

leoesharkey wrote:What was the english triple jump champion Jonathan Edwards at 10.5 and 7.40m in the LJ? yet was multiple world olympic medalist and champion? five world medals and two olympic ann simultaneously euro and c'wealth champion at the same time? but very moderate sprinter jumper compared to US triple jumpers.... :!:


Looks can be deceiving, of course, but so can PRs in off-events.

As one who was sitting almost as close as possible to the pit in Göteborg, I can tell you that my eyes told me that no other triple jumper I had (or have since) ever seen was hitting board with as much velocity as Edwards.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby batonless relay » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:12 am

gh wrote:
leoesharkey wrote:What was the english triple jump champion Jonathan Edwards at 10.5 and 7.40m in the LJ? yet was multiple world olympic medalist and champion? five world medals and two olympic ann simultaneously euro and c'wealth champion at the same time? but very moderate sprinter jumper compared to US triple jumpers.... :!:


Looks can be deceiving, of course, but so can PRs in off-events.

As one who was sitting almost as close as possible to the pit in Göteborg, I can tell you that my eyes told me that no other triple jumper I had (or have since) ever seen was hitting board with as much velocity as Edwards.

You're in good company. Mike Conley also said that no other TJer hit the board with as much speed as Edwards. It wasn't just said as a compliment; there was a bit of "amazement" to it. It wouldn't be surprising if Edwards "potential" was closer to 10 (sub-6.50).
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby user4 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:48 am

batonless relay wrote:
gh wrote:
leoesharkey wrote:What was the english triple jump champion Jonathan Edwards at 10.5 and 7.40m in the LJ? yet was multiple world olympic medalist and champion? five world medals and two olympic ann simultaneously euro and c'wealth champion at the same time? but very moderate sprinter jumper compared to US triple jumpers.... :!:


Looks can be deceiving, of course, but so can PRs in off-events.

As one who was sitting almost as close as possible to the pit in Göteborg, I can tell you that my eyes told me that no other triple jumper I had (or have since) ever seen was hitting board with as much velocity as Edwards.

You're in good company. Mike Conley also said that no other TJer hit the board with as much speed as Edwards. It wasn't just said as a compliment; there was a bit of "amazement" to it. It wouldn't be surprising if Edwards "potential" was closer to 10 (sub-6.50).


You didnt have to be near the pit to see what anyone can see on the video, Edwards was simply not human, he was a piece of spring steel. I dont think we will ever see anything like him again. But if there is one in this generation that can it is Christian Taylor.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gh » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:36 am

user4 wrote:....

You didnt have to be near the pit to see what anyone can see on the video, Edwards was simply not human, he was a piece of spring steel. ...


That's a different part of the equation, but yes, he was also about unmatched in that department. Hey, maybe that's why he's still the WR holder almost 20 years down the road!
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby lonewolf » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:48 am

Worked Edwards in 96 Oly TJ. Without any knowledge of his 100m time, it was also my impression that he was the fastest on the runway of all competitora. (Kenny Harrison won the event but Edwards had 60+ foul)
What mesmerize me was, he seemed to almost levitate on the step phase.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby DoubleRBar » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:12 am

I, too, sat very near the triple jump pit for Edwards' world record in Sweden. His jumps were like slow motion dreams that I often have where I can jump clear across 100' rooms.

I also sat very near the triple jump pit in Atlanta in 1996 and just about had the same feeling when I saw Kenny Harrison jump 17.99 on his first jump. He followed that with an 18.09 jump in the fourth round. There was no beating Harrison that day in July of 1996.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby John G » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:33 am

DoubleRBar wrote: There was no beating Harrison that day in July of 1996.


I beg to differ. My recollection was that Edwards had a monster foul (I was celebrating like a loon) and I was delighted to read from no less an authority than Lonewolf that it was 60 foot (18.29). According to Edwards he was significantly quicker in 96 than 95 and simply couldn't handle the additional speed.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby DoubleRBar » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:42 am

You're right, Edwards did have a long foul, however Harrison had two very long fouls. The triple jump, like the long jump, is not just about who can jump the longest, but who can jump the longest without fouling. I believe on that day in 1996, after Kenny opened with a 17.99, Jonathan tried too hard, tightened up, and you saw the results: he had four fouls. Of course Edwards "should" have won, but that day belonged to Harrison.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby user4 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:08 am

DoubleRBar wrote:You're right, Edwards did have a long foul, however Harrison had two very long fouls. The triple jump, like the long jump, is not just about who can jump the longest, but who can jump the longest without fouling. I believe on that day in 1996, after Kenny opened with a 17.99, Jonathan tried too hard, tightened up, and you saw the results: he had four fouls. Of course Edwards "should" have won, but that day belonged to Harrison.



Harrison was a clydesdale compared to Edwards the greyhound.. or was he a whippet?

Back to Christian Taylor, Im not convinced that a dedicated effort at improving his 200m performance will yield an improvement in his TJ PR ... there I said it. It could be axiomatic but if one want to improve ones TJ PR, do those things that improves ones TJ...no more, no less.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gcheves » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:02 pm

user4 wrote:
Back to Christian Taylor, Im not convinced that a dedicated effort at improving his 200m performance will yield an improvement in his TJ PR ... there I said it. It could be axiomatic but if one want to improve ones TJ PR, do those things that improves ones TJ...no more, no less.


The 200 work is probably to help his 400. Last Year in a Flotrack interview Taylor said that he wanted to run the 400 again, like he used to at UF.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gktrack » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:44 pm

gcheves wrote:The 200 work is probably to help his 400. Last Year in a Flotrack interview Taylor said that he wanted to run the 400 again, like he used to at UF.

46.60 as a prep, 45.34 as a FL freshman and 45.55 as a FL soph, and he has a bye in the TJ and just has to compete at the Trials in any event, right... but also said he wanted to LJ this year. TJ is Day 7&9 in Moscow, so any other event (if any) would be before his TJ.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby lonewolf » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:08 pm

John G wrote:
DoubleRBar wrote: There was no beating Harrison that day in July of 1996.


I beg to differ. My recollection was that Edwards had a monster foul (I was celebrating like a loon) and I was delighted to read from no less an authority than Lonewolf that it was 60 foot (18.29). .


I don't purport to be an "authority" but I was the Pit Judge for that competition. I don't recall whether there were distance indicators at pit side but there were small flags/markers at the WR and Oly records. These markers were possibly obstructed from the stands by the 6 " high rails on which the "sandboni" leveling device ran. I was seated directly opposite the WR flag. Edwards jump was 4 or 5 inches beyond that mark. The Board Judge said afterward it was 2" foul so the distance cleared was over 60'. Foul jumps are not measured and, since measurement was by laser, there was no opportunity to unofficially measure the jump.

BTW, the automatic leveling device, while it prepares a perfectly level and smooth pit, also "roto-tills" and aerates the sand so much it is rather "fluffy" and tends to cave at the back edge of the landing imprint, decreasing the measurement distance.

I understand the device is commonly use Europe but I have only used it twice in the US. (96 Oly and 2003 USATF at Stanford, where one of the two devices malfunctioned during competition and we had to level and rake both pits by hand.) I don't know if that is a factor in its infrequent use but another consideration is, it requires a clear area extending about 40' beyond the end of the pit for the device to retreat. Few LJ venues have the space. The rails are a nuisance.. but it does leave a beautiful pit.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby John G » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:40 am

DoubleRBar wrote:You're right, Edwards did have a long foul, however Harrison had two very long fouls. The triple jump, like the long jump, is not just about who can jump the longest, but who can jump the longest without fouling. I believe on that day in 1996, after Kenny opened with a 17.99, Jonathan tried too hard, tightened up, and you saw the results: he had four fouls. Of course Edwards "should" have won, but that day belonged to Harrison.



I agree 100% - Harrison deserved to win and was the better jumper on the day. My point was simply that contrary to your point that 'there was no beating Harrison', had Edwards got his act together he could have beaten him. Great competition, regardless.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:25 am

user4 wrote:Back to Christian Taylor, Im not convinced that a dedicated effort at improving his 200m performance will yield an improvement in his TJ PR ... there I said it. It could be axiomatic but if one want to improve ones TJ PR, do those things that improves ones TJ...no more, no less.

??!!
Speed DOES improve one's TJ. To not do speed training (preparing for a 200 is an excellent way) is like saying 'don't do weightroom training'. We do lots of 150s and it really shows in their approaches and jumps.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby user4 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:18 am

Marlow wrote:
user4 wrote:Back to Christian Taylor, Im not convinced that a dedicated effort at improving his 200m performance will yield an improvement in his TJ PR ... there I said it. It could be axiomatic but if one want to improve ones TJ PR, do those things that improves ones TJ...no more, no less.

??!!
Speed DOES improve one's TJ. To not do speed training (preparing for a 200 is an excellent way) is like saying 'don't do weightroom training'. We do lots of 150s and it really shows in their approaches and jumps.


The measure of the effect of a workout for a TJer is "does it help him in the TJ". Training to run the best 200m you can is not a good use of time, rather train to run the fastest 50m you can and be able to follow it by 3 super big steps.


gcheves wrote:The 200 work is probably to help his 400. Last Year in a Flotrack interview Taylor said that he wanted to run the 400 again, like he used to at UF.


Now the Christian Taylor plan makes sense, thanks for the info.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby batonless relay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:10 am

user4 wrote:
Marlow wrote:
user4 wrote:Back to Christian Taylor, Im not convinced that a dedicated effort at improving his 200m performance will yield an improvement in his TJ PR ... there I said it. It could be axiomatic but if one want to improve ones TJ PR, do those things that improves ones TJ...no more, no less.

??!!
Speed DOES improve one's TJ. To not do speed training (preparing for a 200 is an excellent way) is like saying 'don't do weightroom training'. We do lots of 150s and it really shows in their approaches and jumps.


The measure of the effect of a workout for a TJer is "does it help him in the TJ". Training to run the best 200m you can is not a good use of time, rather train to run the fastest 50m you can and be able to follow it by 3 super big steps.
Now the Christian Taylor plan makes sense, thanks for the info.

Agreed. Speed CAN improve one's TJ but to say that it DOES is to almost not understand the triple jump (it matters only if they can handle the improved speed on the runway) - which is one of the reason why some athletes can jump FARTHER on limiting their runway approach (goes with HJers and PVers, too) or tempering their run-up. The best way to become a better triple jumper is to become better at applying force and improving your bounding considerably. The mentality that all you need is more speed is one of the reasons why the US has fared so poorly in womens TJ.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:50 am

user4 wrote:The measure of the effect of a workout for a TJer is "does it help him in the TJ". Training to run the best 200m you can is not a good use of time, rather train to run the fastest 50m you can and be able to follow it by 3 super big steps.

And training for the 200 builds the speed endurance that those 3 bounds demand. Running 150s and doing plyometrics (esp. at speed) are primary to TJ in-season training IMO.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:52 am

batonless relay wrote:The mentality that all you need is more speed is one of the reasons why the US has fared so poorly in womens TJ.

Spped kills in the TJ, but so does tensile (as opposed to how many (and heavy) squats you can do) leg strength, and THAT is where Ami wTJers fail.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby batonless relay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:57 am

Marlow wrote:
batonless relay wrote:The mentality that all you need is more speed is one of the reasons why the US has fared so poorly in womens TJ.

Spped kills in the TJ, but so does tensile (as opposed to how many (and heavy) squats you can do) leg strength, and THAT is where Ami wTJers fail.

You have yourself convinced (fooled?) that it is necessary so you won't (can't?) consider that it's not, but one thing for certain is that attributing slogans like "speed kills" to TJ success is not only simplistic but problematic for developing the correct athletes for the triple jump.

"Speed" is NOT where American wTJers fail; they are AS FAST, IF NOT FASTER than their European and Asian counterparts who are considerably better. If you took the "speed" of the top 5 American women TJers - where the best was Erica McClain at 13.96 and #63 on the IAAF 2012 list - and compared it to the athletes from #15 to #62 you would find that the Americans are "faster" than their rivals who are jumping up to a clear .5 meter farther. Your argument DOES NOT HOLD.

Ana Peleteiro of Spain at age 16 jumped 14.17m. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfw57XTbJF4 Six months prior to that she ran 8.17 for 60m; she ran 12.09 for 100m in 2012. There is no way that she had more training age or speed than Every top American over the last 20 years, but she's jumped considerable farther than almost all of them. Ana Peleteiro is lucky though; she lives OUTSIDE the USA where its not nearly impossible for a young girl to find something that exists in an EXTREMELY small, nearly invisible pockets in the USA: a girls/womens triple jump coach.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:18 am

batonless relay wrote:You have yourself convinced (fooled?) that it is necessary so you won't (can't?) consider that it's not.

You keep coaching the TJ without speed (I assume you DO coach the TJ, yes?) and I'll keep coaching it with speed. Deal?
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby batonless relay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:40 am

Marlow wrote:
batonless relay wrote:You have yourself convinced (fooled?) that it is necessary so you won't (can't?) consider that it's not.

You keep coaching the TJ without speed (I assume you DO coach the TJ, yes?) and I'll keep coaching it with speed. Deal?

Oh, so you DO have speed (your criteria). I don't see any girls in Florida jumping over 46 feet! Matter of fact, I don't even see any who have reached "full ride" scholarship level; or even qualification for last years World Juniors 12.90m (~42'3"). I also don't see any over 40 feet but maybe my sources Milesplit/Athletic.net are not updated.

So let me see if I have this clear: You consider yourself a good/great/excellent coach... you have the "necessary" ingredients, speed and ostensibly coaching, for top performances... But, any athletes you have are about a meter from the most significant international qualifications. Maybe it's not force application and bounding proficiency, which is my opinion; maybe the athlete doesn't take to "top flight coaching", or maybe their current ability should be attributed directly to their parents...
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:04 am

batonless relay wrote:I don't see any girls in Florida jumping over 46 feet!
So let me see if I have this clear: You consider yourself a good/great/excellent coach... you have the "necessary" ingredients, speed and ostensibly coaching, for top performances... But, any athletes you have are about a meter from the most significant international qualifications. Maybe it's not force application and bounding proficiency, which is my opinion; maybe the athlete doesn't take to "top flight coaching", or maybe their current ability should be attributed directly to their parents...


I am a 'competent' HIGH SCHOOL coach. I train what I have. The fastest girl I have is a junior girl with 13.5 100 speed in 9th grade. As a TJer she's now down in the low 13s (her natural potential plus the speed training we do) and I taught her to use ALL that speed at the board. She's TJed 37'2 this year. If she were at 12.5, she'd be lots farther. 12.0? 11.5? Much farther.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gh » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:31 am

please take your 2-person debate offline. thanks.
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby gktrack » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:21 am

Christian opened outdoors at Drake with 56-2/17.12m (-0.3) and in his comments:

On his early season performance
“Obviously the focus was speed this year. Last year we did a lot of strength work and I did a couple of 200s coming into this. It’s going to be a long year trying to defend my title so I’m just keeping that in the back of my mind. I’m enjoying every day in the U.S. It’s my first competition. Last year I opened at 16.80 so anything above that is progress and a move in the right direction.”

On the remainder of the season
“I want to keep trying new things, and doing things to keep my mind off of being too technical in the jumps. I don’t want to be locked into that box. I want to keep switching it up and keep changing. When I was young, I was doing all of these events and it was just fun. When I became professional, it became more business related, so I just want to find the fun sense again.”
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Re: PR for Christian Taylor

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:37 am

gktrack wrote:Christian opened outdoors at Drake with 56-2/17.12m (-0.3) and in his comments:

In the TV-cast, it was mentioned that this was a "short-approach" jump. I'll guess that meant 6-7 lefts, instead of the regular 8-9?
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