This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800


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This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby bruce3404 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Official announcement tomorrow. Great job, TJ!
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby aaronk » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:39 pm

Pretty good odds Jordan gets Symmonds and Solomon and most of the rest of the London final entrants to follow!
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby Dave » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:38 am

I haven't gone for a few years. Fortunately I have tickets this time around.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby DrJay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:59 am

Wondered what the US all-comers mark is....looks to be held by some guy named Rudisha, 1:41.74, 2012 adidas Grand Prix at Icahn Stadium in New York City.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:39 am

check the front page for a listing of all the sub-1:44s ever run on U.S. soil.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby EPelle » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:26 am

All eight London finalists slated to compete in this 800m.
http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/rudisha-t ... field-in-e
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby exdrake » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:50 am

Can an 800m be run with that many guys?

I'd like to see Sowinski in that field.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:34 am

gh wrote:check the front page for a listing of all the sub-1:44s ever run on U.S. soil.


And this was the battle for third in one of those races (1984 Trials, which I got to see). 1:43 does not even qualify for the Olympics back almost 30 years ago.

1:43.92 John Marshall 11/5/63 USA 3 OT Los Angeles 6/19/84
1:43.92 James Robinson 8/27/54 USA 4 OT Los Angeles 6/19/84

With 12 I would guess that they would use a waterfall start with two corrals (like the start of the 10,000) rather than doubling up in some of the lanes, but both approaches have been used. Indoors they typically have to use a waterfall start or limit the field to 6 runners.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby Jackaloupe » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:02 am

Well, with ol' Nick S. typically dropping off from the outset, that'd take care of at least one doubled lane;~) :wink:
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:12 am

In all longer races even and even negative splits are thought to be optimal. Nick has positive splits, just less so than others. Why do you assume (implicitly) that his pattern is not optimal for him? He has won his share of races, has reached the rarefied air of sub-1:43, won the US title repeatedly against some pretty good competition --- even if some here think of him as a mere 'journeyman'.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:39 am

26mi235 wrote:...With 12 I would guess that they would use a waterfall start with two corrals (like the start of the 10,000) rather than doubling up in some of the lanes, but both approaches have been used. Indoors they typically have to use a waterfall start or limit the field to 6 runners.


An if they add John Scherer as rabbit du jour, that's 13. But when's the last time you saw an announced field for any meet stay intact for a couple of months?
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:40 am

They could also have a B race.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:43 am

the timetable of modern DL meets doesn't facilitate B races very well.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby bruce3404 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:55 am

gh wrote:
An if they add John Scherer as rabbit du jour, that's 13. But when's the last time you saw an announced field for any meet stay intact for a couple of months?


Matt Scherer, former Duck and all around good guy.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:57 am

gh wrote:the timetable of modern DL meets doesn't facilitate B races very well.


Such a shame I remember some memorable B races at Zurich. Especially the 800.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:22 pm

gh wrote:the timetable of modern DL meets doesn't facilitate B races very well.


I presume you mean that the TV broadcast window doesn't facilitate B races, since it only means another 10 minutes in the program and Pre is (I think it's safe to say) already one of the most compact of DL meets.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:24 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
gh wrote:the timetable of modern DL meets doesn't facilitate B races very well.


Such a shame I remember some memorable B races at Zurich. Especially the 800.


Indeed. Nothing like a sub-1:43 B race!
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:43 pm

this is back to a matter of taste, of course. I always (well, usually) found the Zürich 2-race setup to be most dissatisfying. I'd rather have one race of exquisite meaning than two races that become a parade of rabbited fast time.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:10 pm

Yes, and many of us also know that a good deal of the high end of the sport is "meaningless." It's just that your definition isn't a one-size fits all. It is a matter of taste.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:32 pm

kuha wrote:
gh wrote:the timetable of modern DL meets doesn't facilitate B races very well.


I presume you mean that the TV broadcast window doesn't facilitate B races, since it only means another 10 minutes in the program and Pre is (I think it's safe to say) already one of the most compact of DL meets.


if you can't run the B race proximate to the A, don't you think it loses much/most of its value if it's run a significant amount of time before or after the main race?
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:39 pm

gh wrote:if you can't run the B race proximate to the A, don't you think it loses much/most of its value if it's run a significant amount of time before or after the main race?


Honestly, no, I don't think so. It's simply another race at the distance--the point being to give up-and-coming talent (or guys maybe slightly past their prime) a shot at tough competition and a fast time. A good B race builds expectations for the A race--the top guys would never want to be seen as less good. I found very few B level 800s to be boring or merely filling some slot in the program.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:54 pm

I've been thinking about Pre being among the "most compact," and without going back and finding timetables, I think you'll find that where that's truly, it's basically because many of the Euro DLs have all kinds of "national events" to lead in, and also start some of the field events very early.

But in terms of the core events that are what the DL segment is all about, by definition, all the meets are required to sandwich the same number of events into the same window. (and Pre, don't forget, now has a free Friday session that in and of itself is in the top handful of meets in the country)

Even if Pre wanted to add more events to the main program it would be a very tough sell to the public, precisely because of our old friend TV. The meet already goes off in a window far too early in the day to be optimal, but organizers have no choice. And you certainly don't want to create bad theater by having the meet wrap with the climactic Bowerman Mile, and then say, "oh, if you want to hang around there's still more." I've seen that tried at meets, and it just doesn't work.

Putting on more events earlier in the day means competition at 10:00 in the morning, which isn't a good sell to the athletes or fans.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:30 pm

With Pre being in the afternoon it does limit your options. Those Zurich B 800 races, etc. were in the early evening when it was still light out and made for a nice preview of coming attractions for when it was dark. What fun!

I thought the 30k race on Friday at Pre was a wonderful idea. Perhaps they could try a half marathon or some similar.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:52 pm

From what I understood of the situation, the Z organizers were quite happy to get rid of the B 800s.

Became too huge a source of contention among the agents about who should be in which section, so as I recall in the end they ended up trying to split the talent equally and that wasn't a very satisfying outcome either.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:58 pm

Of course, this whole tangent is the result of the fact that, supposedly, there are 13 entrants in the race. The real question: is it smart to have a field that big? If not, then something has to be done. If not a second race, then you've got to kick a few out.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby gh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:09 pm

as noted, normal attrition will take care of some of them. After that, since a B-race is not on the schedule, one assumes the hobnailed boot comes out as needed.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:25 pm

26mi235 wrote:
gh wrote:check the front page for a listing of all the sub-1:44s ever run on U.S. soil.


And this was the battle for third in one of those races (1984 Trials, which I got to see). 1:43 does not even qualify for the Olympics back almost 30 years ago.

1:43.92 John Marshall 11/5/63 USA 3 OT Los Angeles 6/19/84
1:43.92 James Robinson 8/27/54 USA 4 OT Los Angeles 6/19/84

With 12 I would guess that they would use a waterfall start with two corrals (like the start of the 10,000) rather than doubling up in some of the lanes, but both approaches have been used. Indoors they typically have to use a waterfall start or limit the field to 6 runners.

John Marshall picked a hell of a day to run the greatest race of his life, much like Christian Smith in 2008.
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby pickle47 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:02 pm

For a real rerun of London, pull the aforementioned Mr. Scherer out. That would up the fascination quotient a little. But it ain't gonna happen, is it...
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Re: This Just in....Rudisha to Run in Pre 800

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:24 am

gh said something like this during the summer. David Rudisha is his own best rabbit, which is true because the only races he has lost since the beginning of 2010 have been rabbited races.
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