Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters


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Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:01 pm

He's in the hunt, tied for the lead, three birdies and ten pars thru 12 today.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby dukehjsteve » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:08 pm

He cooled off a bit on the back plus he got screwed blued and tattooed on # 15 !
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby batonless relay » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:02 am

2 MORE strokes back!

Golf's "honesty" rules could go toe-to-toe with track's one false start rule.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby jeremyp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:59 am

So Tiger loses 2 strokes because he opened his mouth?
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby mcgato » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:47 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:He cooled off a bit on the back plus he got screwed blued and tattooed on # 15 !
That has to be the worst outcome from a really good golf shot that I have ever seen. Two inches left or right, and he most likely birdies the hole. Instead he ends up, after penalty, with a triple bogey. That four shot swing currently leaves him four shots off of the lead.

I do hope that this is finally the time that Tiger comes from behind to win a major. It is a tall order though.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby gh » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:21 pm

And it's not the 4 shots in and of itself that's the problem, it's that there are 6 people ahead of him, so as with any of these things, which require a bit of a fade from the leaders combined with a surge by the chasing guy, a half-dozen of them have to go bad at once. Barring a 59 of course :-)
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Friar » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:39 pm

I didn't get a detailed explanation but the way I understood it, he was supposed to place the new ball in the divot /club mark? I've carried a lot of bags and I don't think I've ever seen that done before. I can see why he made this error.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:22 pm

jeremyp wrote:So Tiger loses 2 strokes because he opened his mouth?


If he hadn't, someone else would have. Everything is on video now.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:18 pm

Friar wrote:I didn't get a detailed explanation but the way I understood it, he was supposed to place the new ball in the divot /club mark? I've carried a lot of bags and I don't think I've ever seen that done before. I can see why he made this error.


The words I read were"...as nearly as possible..." to the spot of the shot being re-taken. So maybe a few inches, but not in the divot, but not two yards away.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby BillVol » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:16 pm

I think the reputation of the Masters, created by Bobby Jones, has taken a serious hit. Jones, the man who penalized himself for double hitting a ball (which no one else saw) and upon being praised for his honesty said, "You may as well praise a man for not robbing a bank."

Tiger took that drop to benefit himself. You cannot tell me he didn't know the rule. What is bizarre is that the officials didn't penalize him until they saw an interview on ESPN where Tiger admitted what he did. Tiger is tainted even more, as is his tournament score.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:29 pm

BillVol wrote:I think the reputation of the Masters, created by Bobby Jones, has taken a serious hit. Jones, the man who penalized himself for double hitting a ball (which no one else saw) and upon being praised for his honesty said, "You may as well praise a man for not robbing a bank."

Tiger took that drop to benefit himself. You cannot tell me he didn't know the rule. What is bizarre is that the officials didn't penalize him until they saw an interview on ESPN where Tiger admitted what he did. Tiger is tainted even more, as is his tournament score.


The Masters hasn't taken a hit. The teeth suckers are out in full force.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:39 pm

BillVol wrote:Jones, the man who penalized himself for double hitting a ball (which no one else saw) and upon being praised for his honesty said, "You may as well praise a man for not robbing a bank."

Tiger took that drop to benefit himself. You cannot tell me he didn't know the rule.


I don't think its that simple. I've used the Jones quote multiple times myself over the years for various situations, but this was a very grey area.

The officials knew of the situation on Saturday because the guy called in and they cleared it before Tiger signed his scorecard. So once the officials say "you're OK" he should be OK. They gave him the all clear. It was only later, after hearing his discussion of the drop, that they realized they had a problem.

The new rule allowing penalties instead of DQs in situations in which the player could not have known any better was applicable. I am not a Tiger Woods fan but I think this was handled correctly, given the new rule. Further, the Masters lead rules officials is Fred Ridley, former USGA President, 1974 US Amateur champion, a Tampa lawyer, who I have known since 1972, and he is as honest as the day is long. He knows the rules far better than anybody on this board, and far better than all nattering nabobs of negativism in the press, and certainly better than I know them now.

As to Tiger not knowing the rule, he knew the rule but he misinterpreted, is my picture. He had 3 options: 1) drop area, which he ruled out because of the conditions there, 2) as near as possible to where he hit his previous shot, or 3) keeping the point where the ball last crossed the hazard between him and the hole, and at any point on that line. And for 3) he could go back as far as he wants to, and I think he was using that interpretation of the rule. However, he used the point where it crossed the hazard on its flight over it rather than where it rolled back in, which would have him dropping in the stands to the left of the green.

Again, don't like Tiger, but I think this is correct, was handled correctly, and I do not in any respect think he is a cheater. Nor have I ever heard anything like that, and I do know of several players over the last 40 years that have been suspect - from inside skinny.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:45 pm

More on Fred Ridley - the Masters lead rules official and 1975 US Amateur Champion (I think I said 1974 in the last post). Last player to defeat Ridley at the US Amateur, in the 3rd round in 1974, was - bambam. We had an awesome match going to extra holes. On 19, I made an 18-footer for birdie, and he had the guts to top it, by making his own 15-footer for a birdie to keep the match alive. But I also birdied the 20th to defeat him on the 2nd extra hole. Long time ago - good memories.

I won one more match and then lost to Curtis Strange in the quarter-finals on the 18th hole. Curtis shot 30 against me on the front side in that match, but I came back at him. It was tough because back then the semi-finalists at the US Amateur qualified for the Masters, so Curtis and I were playing for the Augusta invite. I never got to play there. Missed two other times by 2 shots each.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:43 pm

Thanks for sharing all that, bambam. Good stories and ones you deserve to tell.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:09 pm

Jerry Courville Sr. posts on this board?
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:43 am

Dutra5 wrote:Jerry Courville Sr. posts on this board?


Jerry Courville, Sr. died several years ago. An old friend I played many rounds with in the 1970s in various New England tournaments. His son also became a pretty good amateur player.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:06 am

Hey bambam....what happens to the green jacket(s) after a Masters winner dies? Does it stay at Augusta forever? Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was explaining the Masters and Augusta to my son yesterday and he asked that.
Last edited by DrJay on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:10 am

bambam wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:Jerry Courville Sr. posts on this board?


Jerry Courville, Sr. died several years ago. An old friend I played many rounds with in the 1970s in various New England tournaments. His son also became a pretty good amateur player.


I'm aware that he died in 1996.

Strange beat Courville the elder in the quarterfinals in 1974. I'm from the Northeast as the Courvilles and guys such as George Burns III were always in the amateur golf news. I'm not sure where the facts are getting confused here.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:13 pm

DrJay wrote:Hey bambam....what happens to the green jacket(s) after a Masters winner dies? Does it stay at Augusta forever? Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was explaining the Masters and Augusta to my son yesterday and he asked that.


No idea. Never been asked that one before
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:38 pm

bambam wrote:
DrJay wrote:Hey bambam....what happens to the green jacket(s) after a Masters winner dies? Does it stay at Augusta forever? Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was explaining the Masters and Augusta to my son yesterday and he asked that.


No idea. Never been asked that one before


But now you're curious and will sniff out the answer for us?
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby DrJay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:41 pm

A quick search yielded this> Doesn't clarify what they do with one that's housed at Augusta when a winner dies.

http://www.greenjacketauctions.com/site ... temid=6441
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:14 pm

DrJay wrote:
bambam wrote:
DrJay wrote:Hey bambam....what happens to the green jacket(s) after a Masters winner dies? Does it stay at Augusta forever? Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was explaining the Masters and Augusta to my son yesterday and he asked that.


No idea. Never been asked that one before


But now you're curious and will sniff out the answer for us?


Your auction site was good - I can check this out with a few friends who are members - not certain if they'll tell me - they are pretty much sworn to secrecy at Augusta National.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:39 pm

I'm still trying to figure out how Curtis Strange beat both bam bam and Jerry Courville sr. in the same quarterfinal round in 1974.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Daisy » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:22 pm

DrJay, you'll like this article about a green jacket sale that Augusta tried to stop.

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013 ... ions.html/

It went to court. Augusta claimed "that all green jackets are supposed to remain at Augusta"

In the law suit Augusta's claim is challenged by the following points:
    Bobby Jones’ green jacket was auctioned and the Plaintiff took no action.

    A green jacket won by Seve Ballesteros remains in Spain at Mr. Ballesteros’ family home, and the Plaintiff has not sought its return.

    The green jacket won by Gary Player in 1961 remains in South Africa, the country of Mr. Player’s residence, and the Plaintiff has taken no action.

    The green jacket owned by Cliff Roberts, one of the founders of the golf club, is hanging on display, along with the jackets of Jack Nicklaus and others, at the Hall of Fame in St. Augustine, Florida.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:56 am

Dutra5 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how Curtis Strange beat both bam bam and Jerry Courville sr. in the same quarterfinal round in 1974.


Curtis beat me in the quarters that year on the 18th hole, after shooting 30 going out, that I remember. I beat Ridley in either the 2nd or 3rd round - it was almost 40 years ago now, but that's how I remember it. I was there.

If you want to ask Curtis about the match, I know he'll remember it, because I got back to even after the 16th hole, despite his 30 going out (I was 4 down), and he said to the press after the match that he hated playing me because I wasn't the best player, but I never quit and had more guts than any of the other players (I had played him earlier in the summer in the quarters at the Western Amateur, also losing 1 down on the 18th hole). I remember it well because a Golf World writer came up and told me about Curtis's comment and it remains my favorite quote from my golf career. Curtis remains a good friend to this day, he now lives in North Carolina and we stay in touch.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:48 am

bambam wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how Curtis Strange beat both bam bam and Jerry Courville sr. in the same quarterfinal round in 1974.


Curtis beat me in the quarters that year on the 18th hole, after shooting 30 going out, that I remember. I beat Ridley in either the 2nd or 3rd round - it was almost 40 years ago now, but that's how I remember it. I was there.

If you want to ask Curtis about the match, I know he'll remember it, because I got back to even after the 16th hole, despite his 30 going out (I was 4 down), and he said to the press after the match that he hated playing me because I wasn't the best player, but I never quit and had more guts than any of the other players (I had played him earlier in the summer in the quarters at the Western Amateur, also losing 1 down on the 18th hole). I remember it well because a Golf World writer came up and told me about Curtis's comment and it remains my favorite quote from my golf career. Curtis remains a good friend to this day, he now lives in North Carolina and we stay in touch.


The 1974 quarterfinals at Ridgewood were Gary Koch vs. Jeff Pomerantz, Richard Sucher vs. John Grace, Curtis Strange vs. Jerry Courville, Sr. and Bill Campbell vs. Jerry Pate.

This is according to multiple newspaper accounts and is also confirmed from accounts of Jerry Courville Jr.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:15 pm

DrJay wrote:Hey bambam....what happens to the green jacket(s) after a Masters winner dies? Does it stay at Augusta forever? Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was explaining the Masters and Augusta to my son yesterday and he asked that.


From a member of Augusta National who is pretty high up:

-----

Bill, I honestly do not know the answer to that, but I would guess that the club keeps the jacket.

-----

So, that doesn't help much.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:16 pm

Looks like bambam lost to Curtis Strange a round earlier than the quarters in 1974. He coulda been a contenda.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:16 pm

Dutra5 wrote:The 1974 quarterfinals at Ridgewood were Gary Koch vs. Jeff Pomerantz, Richard Sucher vs. John Grace, Curtis Strange vs. Jerry Courville, Sr. and Bill Campbell vs. Jerry Pate.

This is according to multiple newspaper accounts and is also confirmed from accounts of Jerry Courville Jr.


Must have been the round before then - round of 16 - been a long time
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:10 pm

bambam wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:The 1974 quarterfinals at Ridgewood were Gary Koch vs. Jeff Pomerantz, Richard Sucher vs. John Grace, Curtis Strange vs. Jerry Courville, Sr. and Bill Campbell vs. Jerry Pate.

This is according to multiple newspaper accounts and is also confirmed from accounts of Jerry Courville Jr.


Must have been the round before then - round of 16 - been a long time


I was in attendance with my uncle although I don't recall much about it other than some of the local names such as Courville and Burns.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:33 pm

At Masters, a Swan Song for Long Putters.

Can't say I will miss them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/sport ... l?ref=golf
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby bambam » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:48 pm

Dutra5 wrote:I was in attendance with my uncle although I don't recall much about it other than some of the local names such as Courville and Burns.


Well, then you should have known me! Here's the weird thing that happened. I grew up around Boston, but only moved there when I was 7 yo, having been born in Paterson, New Jersey. All the New Jersey players lost in the first round so the local papers, including the Paterson Morning-Call had to find somebody to write about and they saw my place of birth listed and adopted me as one of the local players in the local papers, and started writing about me. Still didn't help against Curtis.
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Re: Tiger hunting, AKA 2013 Masters

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:46 am

bambam wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:I was in attendance with my uncle although I don't recall much about it other than some of the local names such as Courville and Burns.


Well, then you should have known me! Here's the weird thing that happened. I grew up around Boston, but only moved there when I was 7 yo, having been born in Paterson, New Jersey. All the New Jersey players lost in the first round so the local papers, including the Paterson Morning-Call had to find somebody to write about and they saw my place of birth listed and adopted me as one of the local players in the local papers, and started writing about me. Still didn't help against Curtis.


Unfortunately, at the time, I knew two names in the amateur golf world and not being a super fan of the sport I concentrated on those two if their names were in the paper. I had no knowledge of who Curtis Strange was at that time and was only reminded of the fact that he beat Courville at the event we attended by my uncle after Curtis became more of a name. The only reason I jumped in after your story regarding Fred Ridley was because I wanted to see if I could find the results of the event we attended which took entirely too much time and I never did completely find :lol:
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