nasty professions


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nasty professions

Postby gh » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:59 am

so I was reading a book review about an esoteric subject the other day and found this

<<while we often think of police officers and firefighters as putting their lives in danger, X actually have statistically riskier jobs, and are many more times more likely than police or firefighters to lose their lives at work>>

Of what profession do we speak?
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:13 am

Farming is pretty dangerous.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby KDFINE » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:15 am

Some forms of commercial fishing. Stay out of the Bering Sea!
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Re: nasty professions

Postby mcgato » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:55 am

Truck drivers maybe. Although commercial fisherman looks promising too.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:56 am

I always thought those guys who go up the poles to work on electric wires and transformers to be enormously brave. Skyscraper and tower construction workers too.

Javelin catchers!!
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Daisy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:58 am

How about Med Flight crew members?
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Master Po » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:30 am

I won't contribute to the trivia question, because I had no idea what might be the answer. Prompted by the question, however, I did look up some Bureau of Labor Statistics data on this question, and the numbers are surprising (to me) in a variety of ways: how high some are, how low others I would think to be hazardous are. I don't have close enough association with most of these to know much about their hazards -- except farmers -- I do recognize at least some of the hazards there.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby KDFINE » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:12 am

We've left out loggers and miners, especially miners in China. I still think that those small commercial boats out in the northern oceans and those depicted in "The Perfect Storm" are the worst. (I do not watch any of these reality TV shows.)
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:24 am

KDFINE wrote:We've left out loggers and miners, especially miners in China. I still think that those small commercial boats out in the northern oceans and those depicted in "The Perfect Storm" are the worst. (I do not watch any of these reality TV shows.)


Well if we are talking about overseas, then that is a whole different thing. Mining in China and mining here is like comparing the 19th century to present day mining.

And then there are all sorts of ghastly occupations in places where there are no regulations.

But I presume the original post was related to the US.

And yes logging is dangerous, but I still think it is farming. Silo accidents, machinery accidents--just ask Beardsley, and so on.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:28 am

My wife's cousin was a cell tower repairman. It's considered one of, if not the most dangerous jobs. So much so, that in addition to an hourly rate, he gets $300 for each tower he has to climb. He climbs 1 - 2 per day. He was making well into six figures a year by age 21. Not bad for someone that had to graduate from the alternative high school.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby gh » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:11 am

I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:44 am

gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


Well, that eliminates farmers, coal miners, etc.

Bike messengers?
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Re: nasty professions

Postby DrJay » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:06 pm

gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


So municipal employees? Sanitation workers (ie garbagemen)?
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:14 pm

DrJay wrote:
gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


So municipal employees? Sanitation workers (ie garbagemen)?


Never heard of any of that in Chicago. Firemen and police yes.

In Chicago it is probably politicians. If going to jail is dangerous. Being a city alderman with all its temptations is not for the weak.

PS. Are these people employed by the city or are they workers in a city?

Relief pitchers for the Cubs? They drop like flies in Wrigley.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby gh » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:22 pm

DrJay wrote:
gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


So municipal employees? Sanitation workers (ie garbagemen)?


Bingo! from a new book I have to put on my must-buy list

<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

A review in the Atlantic of Picking Up: On the Streets and Behind the Trucks with the Sanitation Workers of New York City.:


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... en/274536/
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:34 pm

gh wrote:
DrJay wrote:
gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


So municipal employees? Sanitation workers (ie garbagemen)?


Bingo! from a new book I have to put on my must-buy list

<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

A review in the Atlantic of Picking Up: On the Streets and Behind the Trucks with the Sanitation Workers of New York City.:


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... en/274536/


Interesting. I wonder what it is in Chicago? I don't even remember the last time a garbageman died in the city.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:46 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
gh wrote:
DrJay wrote:
gh wrote:I should have put this in tighter context. The book is about employees of a major U.S. city (hence the comparison to fire and police).


So municipal employees? Sanitation workers (ie garbagemen)?


Bingo! from a new book I have to put on my must-buy list

<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

A review in the Atlantic of Picking Up: On the Streets and Behind the Trucks with the Sanitation Workers of New York City.:


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... en/274536/


Interesting. I wonder what it is in Chicago? I don't even remember the last time a garbageman died in the city.


Peggy Bundy wanted Al to be a garbageman.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:23 pm

gh wrote:<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

Yes, but is it from coronaries and strokes? There are fitness regimens for police/fire-fighters. Garbage workers? Not so much.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:01 pm

We just had a sanitation worker here in Indianapolis killed yesterday when he was run over by a backing up garbage truck.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:50 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:We just had a sanitation worker here in Indianapolis killed yesterday when he was run over by a backing up garbage truck.


Yes, I suppose it is pretty dangerous. On original question I was thinking killed in the line of duty, like this poor fellow, and not just having a heart attack or whatever at home.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby gh » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:50 pm

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

Yes, but is it from coronaries and strokes? There are fitness regimens for police/fire-fighters. Garbage workers? Not so much.


from the review in the SF Chron:

<<Nagle shares the scary and sad stories she's gleaned from workers she's been following for well over a decade: Workers have picked up unclean needles, been hit by projectile bowling balls coming out of the backs of truck, inhaled soot or far scarier toxins. One man was even killed by a garbage bag full of hydrochloric acid.>>

if you can see the whole review (which you can't, cuz it's protected) she's clearly talking about job hazards, not normal mortality issues.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:28 am

gh wrote:
Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:<<Sanitation workers, it turns out, have twice the fatality rates of police officers, and nearly seven times the fatality rates of firefighters.>>

Yes, but is it from coronaries and strokes? There are fitness regimens for police/fire-fighters. Garbage workers? Not so much.


from the review in the SF Chron:

<<Nagle shares the scary and sad stories she's gleaned from workers she's been following for well over a decade: Workers have picked up unclean needles, been hit by projectile bowling balls coming out of the backs of truck, inhaled soot or far scarier toxins. One man was even killed by a garbage bag full of hydrochloric acid.>>

if you can see the whole review (which you can't, cuz it's protected) she's clearly talking about job hazards, not normal mortality issues.


Pretty nasty stuff. I can't believe this kind of stuff doesn't happen in Chicago and yet not a peep out of the local rags. Or New York. I can't remember the Times having anything on this. A cop gets shot or a fireman gets killed that is big news. Maybe because it is so common.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Marlow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:48 am

gh wrote:she's clearly talking about job hazards, not normal mortality issues.

Clearly . . . but the question is what do the STATS represent? If you die as an active municipal worker, you're in the stats (I'm guessing).
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Re: nasty professions

Postby gh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:49 am

I'm guessing there's a difference between fatality rates and mortality rates and these are the former. This was the point of the book fer crissakes.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Marlow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:00 am

gh wrote:I'm guessing there's a difference between fatality rates and mortality rates and these are the former. This was the point of the book fer crissakes.

Agreed, but you know how journalists love to trot out stats to back their premise, regardless of the actual relevancy of the stat they're citing. Skepticism is healthy . . .
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Re: nasty professions

Postby gh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:12 am

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:she's clearly talking about job hazards, not normal mortality issues.

Clearly . . . but the question is what do the STATS represent? If you die as an active municipal worker, you're in the stats (I'm guessing).


And if you die as a cop/fireman you'd equally be in the stats, so it's a wash and not part of the discussion in the first place.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Marlow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:21 am

gh wrote:And if you die as a cop/fireman you'd equally be in the stats, so it's a wash and not part of the discussion in the first place.

Except my original point was that they have physical fitness regimens that are more apt to prevent an in-service 'natural' death. But you're right, it is a wash, because they are more apt to be in stress situations that could cause a stroke or heart attack.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:39 pm

Madison went to automated trucks with standardized charts. They have been able to cut the number of workers, and cut the number of injuries, both traumatic and chronic/back, substantially since doing so. The city has saved a lot of money and they have been picking up work from surrounding cities. I am not sure everyone likes it but I would put the 'yes' vote at 90+++%.
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Re: nasty professions

Postby DrJay » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:10 pm

Think of their mortality rate in the 14th century...."Bring out your dead!"
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Re: nasty professions

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:25 pm

DrJay wrote:Think of their mortality rate in the 14th century...."Bring out your dead!"


The 17th century wasn't so hot either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyam
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