Spearmon moving up to 400


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Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Vault-emort » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:54 pm

After his win at 200m in Melbourne overnight, Spearmon said:

"I'm going to run a few 400s and if I do well I might try and step up to the 400,”

"If I run 44.5 maybe I'll run the 400 (in Moscow) but if not I'll just run the 200.”

"I've been told for so long that I should run the 400 that I guess I just want to see if there's anything behind that. Michael Johnson says I can run the 400, my Dad, my family, so I might as well try it.”
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby aaronk » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:01 pm

Let's see.....

Bolt to the 400.
Check!

Wariner to the 800.
Check!

Hasay to the 10000.
Check....and DONE!!

Verzbicas to do TWO sports in Rio.
Double check!! :lol:

Spearmon to move to 400.
??

Yes, and Mary Cain is going to run the Boston Marathon next week!! :P
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby gktrack » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:02 pm

I certainly hope he moves up... and he would then be the next sub-10/20/45 guy if things go according to plan. The US might also need his help on the 4x4, and if I recall, he had a couple decent 400 splits in the past. Wish he would have entertained this idea a bit earlier.

Add: Looks like he had at least one sub-45 split, the rest I could find were mid-45, all from the 2006-2009 timeframe. His best open 400 might be his 2006 45.22.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby booond » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:28 pm

He and Powell can have a match race.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby nicest person ever » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:47 pm

Lol I'm so fucking pissed off at myself right now.

In that thread a few days ago where that guy was asking about whether Asafa should move up to the 400 and everyone was laughing and saying no, I wrote up a long reply about how although I didn't think Asafa should move up to the 400, I did think Spearmon should, and explained my reasoning in extreme detail. Unfortunately, as is the problem with a lot of my posts, it went over-long and surpassed the character limit for how long a post is allowed to be when I clicked the post button, and I was too sleepy at the time to decide which parts of the post to delete to shorten the post enough to where it would let me post it or to re-write the whole thing, so I just clicked x and went to sleep.

DAMNNNNNNN ITTTTTTTTTTT

If only I had just taken the time to make the post go through everyone would be like "whoa, nice call/nice timing" etc right now. I would've been like an internet celebrity on this site for like 5 to 10 minutes. FUCK. :evil: :cry: :(
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:32 pm

Good move but he's going to have to commit to the first 200m more than he does to the first 100m of the 200m
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby ATK » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:46 pm

Would anyone really bet on Spearmon having a better chance at success in the 400 than he has in the 200 right now?
Seems like anyone over the age of 25 right now would have a hard time making even the 400 finals at majors.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby nicest person ever » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:08 pm

ATK wrote:Seems like anyone over the age of 25 right now would have a hard time making even the 400 finals at majors.


Huh?

I'm pretty sure people can still be pretty fast at the 400 at much higher ages than just 25 years old. Michael Johnson set the current world record of 43.18 when he was 31 years old (and only a few weeks shy of 32 years old for that matter). Not to mention there are plenty of others who have put up great 400m times well after the age of 25. If anything, the physical peaking age for the 400 is probably higher than it is for the 100 or 200.

Unless you just meant that, right now, in this actual moment in time, there randomly happens to not be very many fast 400m runners over the age of 25 (not that there no longer ever will, but rather, that via freakish statistical variance, the 400 just happens to be young-centric at this particular moment). If that's what you were saying, then obviously disregard my previous paragraph. That said, even if that is what you meant, it still doesn't have much importance as far as it meaning anything as far as Spearmon being too old to move up. He is definitely not too old to move up.

As for whether he will be better (relative to his competition, that is) at the 400m than he is at the 200m, there's no way to know for sure other than to just see what actually happens. Personally, if I had to guess, I would think the 400 is better suited for him than the 200 (given his style of running the first 100m (the curve) of the 200m somewhat "slowly", but in a way that conserves a huge amount of energy, in order to be one of the strongest finishers in the history of the 200m dash, this "style", along with his physique, and efficient (albeit less 'explosive" out of the blocks) stride, all point towards him having the potential to be a great 400m runner.

The way I see it, there's no reason not to at least give it a TRY.

His options:

A) Have basically no chance whatsoever of getting gold, or perhaps even a medal, in the 200, given that there are now at least 2, if not more, people who are considerably better than him at it, and they are as young or younger than him, so he can't just wait them out.

or

B) Try the 400. If he turns out to be worse at it than the 200, oh well, no biggie, just move back down. But if he happens to be better at it than he is at the 200, well then he has a lot to gain by having made the switch.

So, it's definitely worth at least testing the waters, in my opinion.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby nicest person ever » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:24 pm

And I know people are going to reply to my previous post with something like:

"So, are you saying that any time someone has at least 3 or more people who are way better than them at their event, who are all younger than they are, then that person should move up to the next event above them to test the waters there, since why bother with an event if you can't get gold or top-3 in it?"

No.

Obviously that is not what I am saying. By that logic, almost every single track and field runner would ultimately end up being a marathon runner or ultra-marathon runner etc, I know I know, lol. I get that. And also, obviously even if a person has no realistic chance of ever being top 3 in the world in their event, that still doesn't mean they should ever change events, IF that event happens to be their best event (as in, even if the best someone will ever be in the 200m is 27th best in the world, that's no reason to switch to the 400 if the best he'll ever be at that is 140th best. Better to be 27th best than 140th best, etc)

Rather, the reason I am saying, SPECIFICALLY in regards to Spearmon, to give the 400 a serious shot is:

It isn't as though he is some guy who has been steadily improving and improving at the 200 over the years. If that was the case, switching away from the event would probably be a mistake.

But, that isn't the case with him. Rather, instead, he has been doing the exact opposite of that. He has not come all that close to his 19.65 P.R. from way back in 2006, and it is now nearly 7 years later, and in all these years he has been stuck treading waters, either staying about the same, or getting a little slower over time, at the 200. This does not bode well for his 200m future. Who knows, it's possible he could randomly start getting way better at the 200 again, and jump back into the top 3 or something, but, it doesn't seem likely, given how the past 6 years have gone.

So, at least with the 400, it's like, an unknown. It COULD turn out to be his best event, better than the 200, OR, it could turn out NOT to be, and he just sucks at it compared to the 200. The thing is, if it's the latter, it's not the end of the world, he can still go back down to the 200 (and with even more speed endurance in his tank than ever as a result of his 400m training to boot, for that matter, which, given his 200m running style, could be a good thing). but if it's the former, then who knows, maybe up there he WOULD be a legit top-3 talent for all we know. It's worth finding out. And it's not just that either, it's also the running style notes I mentioned in my previous post, that add even more incentive to testing the 400 out, in addition to the stuff I mentioned in this post. So yea so overall I think it is a wise choice to test the 400 out a lil bit.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jjimbojames » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:02 am

Pretty sure we had a thread on this a little while back! :wink:
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby mal » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:58 pm

He'll be more successful at the 400 than he is at the 200.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby ATK » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:50 pm

mal wrote:He'll be more successful at the 400 than he is at the 200.

How do you define successful? Or how would he define it?
He already has a WC silver and a WC bronze as well as multiple US champ wins. I can see him achieving any of that at 400 in the current 4 year cycle.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby mal » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:09 am

ATK wrote:
mal wrote:He'll be more successful at the 400 than he is at the 200.

How do you define successful? Or how would he define it?
He already has a WC silver and a WC bronze as well as multiple US champ wins. I can see him achieving any of that at 400 in the current 4 year cycle.


Lets look at success as a forward thing, not a past thing. Those medals are on the shelf. Where he will be without some changes. He's run his race in the 200.

Going forward, he has the possibility of being more competitive in the 400, than the 200. If he gets good advice and coaching, and is mentally strong, I could see him running mid 44s on a consistent basis. That will put him in more meaningful events, in a meaningful placing, than anything that's going to happen for him in the 200. But he still has to run them.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby JRM » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:02 am

Vault-emort wrote:After his win at 200m in Melbourne overnight, Spearmon said:

"I'm going to run a few 400s and if I do well I might try and step up to the 400,”

"If I run 44.5 maybe I'll run the 400 (in Moscow) but if not I'll just run the 200.”

"I've been told for so long that I should run the 400 that I guess I just want to see if there's anything behind that. Michael Johnson says I can run the 400, my Dad, my family, so I might as well try it.”


Perhaps I have some reading comprehension problems. To me, this says "Spearmon will try a few 400s, and will possibly move up if it works out." This doesn't say "SPEARMON MOVING UP TO 400m". Did I miss something?
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby nicest person ever » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:24 pm

No, I got the same message from it as you. My posts were my explanation of why I thought he *SHOULD* give the 400 a shot. Not an explanation of why he *would* give it a (permanent) shot. Obviously nothing is set in stone yet, nor should it be, for that matter!!! If I were him, what I would do is train for the 400 instead of the 200 throughout this season, BUT, run BOTH the 200 AND the 400, with an emphasis on the 400. As in, run 400's for the majority of my races throughout the season (not just at the start of the season, but even in the late season), and sprinkle in a few 200's here and there with an extra few 200's just before W.C.'s to have it in the back pocket as a legit backup option in case the 400 isn't working out. Most likely, his 200 wouldn't drop off much from training up to the 400, if anything, it could even improve maybe, if he still did a reasonable amount of speedwork before the W.C.'s to have the 200 still be in play while getting a boost in his already insanely good speed-endurance abilities. Plus it would even leave open the option of doubling, if somehow both events were going well for him! (okay, maybe that would be a bit of a stretch, not to mention if the Moscow organizers would even have the events timetabled in a way for 200/400 to be realistic, for all I know).
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:27 pm

If he is going to run the 200 he cannot ignore his speed training, which is his weakness in the event. This may mean doing more 100s as well -- not a lot of room to have 400s be the dominant event until it is more clear where his best chances really lie.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jamboy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:14 pm

26mi235 wrote:If he is going to run the 200 he cannot ignore his speed training, which is his weakness in the event. This may mean doing more 100s as well -- not a lot of room to have 400s be the dominant event until it is more clear where his best chances really lie.


Spearmon seriously needs to hit the weight room. Doesn't he look at his competitors and see how much bigger/stronger they are?

If Spearmon seriously plans on being the medal podioum, he needs to get more serious. More work in the gym, work on his start, form, etc.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby nicest person ever » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:51 pm

jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:If he is going to run the 200 he cannot ignore his speed training, which is his weakness in the event. This may mean doing more 100s as well -- not a lot of room to have 400s be the dominant event until it is more clear where his best chances really lie.


Spearmon seriously needs to hit the weight room. Doesn't he look at his competitors and see how much bigger/stronger they are?

If Spearmon seriously plans on being the medal podioum, he needs to get more serious. More work in the gym, work on his start, form, etc.


Maybe, maybe not...

Jeremy Wariner, even in his prime when he was running 43.5's and shit like that, was pretty spindly looking, maybe even moreso than Spearmon.

Different people have different "body types" of what their body just naturally "wants" to be shaped like in terms of like, what it's DNA is coded to have its body look like if it wasn't for outside manipulation via modern weight training/protein overloard/whatever methods people can use to fuck with it these days. But, even so, even though we're at a point now where you can, at least to SOME extent, alter your body to be pretty far off from what it genetically was "supposed" to end up as, I am not sure it is necessarily ideal to try to sway too far away from your body's natural body-type. Like, maybe if Wariner had just brute forced his way in the gym into having some Arnold Schwarzenegger style body (not even sure someone of his body type even COULD do that, even if they tried, other than using ahem-ahem methods btw), but even if he could, and did, do that, I'm not so sure it would've been such a great idea as a 400m runner. It was probably a GOOD thing for his body to be pretty close to what it's natural form already was going to be, weight training body sculpting aside, for his 400m running.

I mean, as an exaggerated example, obviously the body type that you see all the top marathon and 10k runners have, must be an advantage over a Walter Dix body type, for that longer distance event. And in the same way, albeit to a much less severe degree, the Wariner/Spearmon body type might be a better fit for the 400m than if he was even, just merely as ripped as Bolt currently is (i.e. still pretty lanky, but with a lot of muscle packed onto that lankyness).

Personally, I'd think if he becomes a strictly-400m guy, he would probably be best to either just stay as-is (as far as how bulky he is I mean), or, maybe put on 5 or 10 lbs or muscle. That's about it tho, I don't think it would be a good thing for him to put on like 20+ lbs of muscle tbh, it would probably make him a slower 400m runner. Maybe not. No way to know 100% for sure, but, if I had to make a guess on it...
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jamboy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:59 pm

nicest person ever wrote:
jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:If he is going to run the 200 he cannot ignore his speed training, which is his weakness in the event. This may mean doing more 100s as well -- not a lot of room to have 400s be the dominant event until it is more clear where his best chances really lie.


Spearmon seriously needs to hit the weight room. Doesn't he look at his competitors and see how much bigger/stronger they are?

If Spearmon seriously plans on being the medal podioum, he needs to get more serious. More work in the gym, work on his start, form, etc.


Maybe, maybe not...

Jeremy Wariner, even in his prime when he was running 43.5's and shit like that, was pretty spindly looking, maybe even moreso than Spearmon.

Different people have different "body types" of what their body just naturally "wants" to be shaped like in terms of like, what it's DNA is coded to have its body look like if it wasn't for outside manipulation via modern weight training/protein overloard/whatever methods people can use to fuck with it these days. But, even so, even though we're at a point now where you can, at least to SOME extent, alter your body to be pretty far off from what it genetically was "supposed" to end up as, I am not sure it is necessarily ideal to try to sway too far away from your body's natural body-type. Like, maybe if Wariner had just brute forced his way in the gym into having some Arnold Schwarzenegger style body (not even sure someone of his body type even COULD do that, even if they tried, other than using ahem-ahem methods btw), but even if he could, and did, do that, I'm not so sure it would've been such a great idea as a 400m runner. It was probably a GOOD thing for his body to be pretty close to what it's natural form already was going to be, weight training body sculpting aside, for his 400m running.

I mean, as an exaggerated example, obviously the body type that you see all the top marathon and 10k runners have, must be an advantage over a Walter Dix body type, for that longer distance event. And in the same way, albeit to a much less severe degree, the Wariner/Spearmon body type might be a better fit for the 400m than if he was even, just merely as ripped as Bolt currently is (i.e. still pretty lanky, but with a lot of muscle packed onto that lankyness).

Personally, I'd think if he becomes a strictly-400m guy, he would probably be best to either just stay as-is (as far as how bulky he is I mean), or, maybe put on 5 or 10 lbs or muscle. That's about it tho, I don't think it would be a good thing for him to put on like 20+ lbs of muscle tbh, it would probably make him a slower 400m runner. Maybe not. No way to know 100% for sure, but, if I had to make a guess on it...


My comment was related to him and his competitors in the 200m.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby ATK » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:47 pm

jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:If he is going to run the 200 he cannot ignore his speed training, which is his weakness in the event. This may mean doing more 100s as well -- not a lot of room to have 400s be the dominant event until it is more clear where his best chances really lie.


Spearmon seriously needs to hit the weight room. Doesn't he look at his competitors and see how much bigger/stronger they are?

I agree. Warren Weir can teach him a thing or two about that.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Smoke » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:15 am

Best news I have heard in a while. This will greatly aid his 200. Watch both races, scratch that, all three races improve. He has long been in the weight room, that is not the issue. Health has been a huge problem the last few years. The 400 background should help with that.
Someone mentioned success??? Please stop talking about Wallace as if he has been an utter failure. He has multiple WC medals, is an automatic sub 20, and while he was dq'd in 08 he did finish in medal position in that race, from lane 8.
I do not see his 200 disappearing simply because he has adopted a related event. I expect him to post impressive times
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby ATK » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:15 am

Smoke wrote:Best news I have heard in a while. This will greatly aid his 200. Watch both races, scratch that, all three races improve. He has long been in the weight room, that is not the issue. Health has been a huge problem the last few years. The 400 background should help with that.
Someone mentioned success??? Please stop talking about Wallace as if he has been an utter failure. He has multiple WC medals, is an automatic sub 20, and while he was dq'd in 08 he did finish in medal position in that race, from lane 8.
I do not see his 200 disappearing simply because he has adopted a related event. I expect him to post impressive times

I mentioned his success in the 400, which is complete assumption. IMHO He can never be counter out of medal position in a 200m race considering what he has done and continues to do...
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:40 pm

[quote="ATK ] He can never be counter out of medal position in a 200m race considering what he has done and continues to do...[/quote]

Unless Jamaica has 5 guys (which they might) in the 200 this year.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:09 pm

Unless they can run someone under a different flag, Jamaica will have to settle for four -- if you have both the WC and DL champs you have to pick one for that freebie slot (the US, and all others I would guess, will give precedence to the WC champ).
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Fortius19 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:33 pm

whatever happened to Dix?
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby gktrack » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:27 pm

Fortius19 wrote:whatever happened to Dix?

Dix was supposed to run a 400 in Pasadena CA (meet director was hurdler Larry Wade, coach at Pasadena) a few weeks back, but didn't post (same day Jeter and Okagbare ran their 300). It appears Dix is still in CA, but not sure if John Smith is still his coach?
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Gebrucilassie » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:43 pm

ATK wrote:Would anyone really bet on Spearmon having a better chance at success in the 400 than he has in the 200 right now?
Seems like anyone over the age of 25 right now would have a hard time making even the 400 finals at majors.


How old was Cliff Wiley when he moved to 400 meters? IIRC he world ranked #1 in the year he switched. Hang on i just realized that half of the people reading this won't know who Cliff Wiley is
:x :( :(
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby trackinblack2 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:58 am

It truly pains me to see a guy that ran a 19.6? consistantly doing 20.??. A move to the 400
will do him good if he also as others have pointed out,"hit the weight room".
It'll remove some of that" yellow cake" from his chest and let the real man come out.
I really like Spearmon,but He makes me angry.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Fortius19 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:21 pm

gktrack wrote:
Fortius19 wrote:whatever happened to Dix?

Dix was supposed to run a 400 in Pasadena CA (meet director was hurdler Larry Wade, coach at Pasadena) a few weeks back, but didn't post (same day Jeter and Okagbare ran their 300). It appears Dix is still in CA, but not sure if John Smith is still his coach?


Thanks for that. I really like Dix and was disappointed he couldn't make it to London. Hope to see him running well soon.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jamboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:14 pm

Fortius19 wrote:
gktrack wrote:
Fortius19 wrote:whatever happened to Dix?

Dix was supposed to run a 400 in Pasadena CA (meet director was hurdler Larry Wade, coach at Pasadena) a few weeks back, but didn't post (same day Jeter and Okagbare ran their 300). It appears Dix is still in CA, but not sure if John Smith is still his coach?


Thanks for that. I really like Dix and was disappointed he couldn't make it to London. Hope to see him running well soon.


Dix will not medal in either the 100/200m this summer in Moscow. Competition has moved passed him.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:19 pm

So there are a lot of 19.5 guys in the 200?
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jamboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:44 pm

26mi235 wrote:So there are a lot of 19.5 guys in the 200?



That was just a one of race for him. It will never happen again.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:55 pm

jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:So there are a lot of 19.5 guys in the 200?



That was just a one of[f] race for him. It will never happen again.


Several years earlier he had a pretty fast 200 in a college meet, and his 100 times support his 200 mark -- that is not a one-off mark for an multiple medalist.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby Vault-emort » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm

JRM wrote:
Vault-emort wrote:Perhaps I have some reading comprehension problems. To me, this says "Spearmon will try a few 400s, and will possibly move up if it works out." This doesn't say "SPEARMON MOVING UP TO 400m". Did I miss something?

Sorry, when my schedule allows I will change thread title to "Spearmon will try a few 400s and will possibly move up if it works out".
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby rainy.here » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:30 pm

jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:So there are a lot of 19.5 guys in the 200?



That was just a one of race for him. It will never happen again.


Huh? He was Bronze 100 & 200 in '08 Olympics, and Silver 100 & 200 in '11 worlds. Dude knows how to run...
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby jamboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:45 pm

rainy.here wrote:
jamboy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:So there are a lot of 19.5 guys in the 200?



That was just a one of race for him. It will never happen again.


Huh? He was Bronze 100 & 200 in '08 Olympics, and Silver 100 & 200 in '11 worlds. Dude knows how to run...


And Lauryn Williams has WC gold and OG silver at the 100m. I don't expect to ever see her back on the medal stand.

The competition(especially) from Jamaica has since passed these athletes.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby gktrack » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:18 am

Re: Spearmon
Vault-emort wrote:After his win at 200m in Melbourne overnight, Spearmon said:

"I'm going to run a few 400s and if I do well I might try and step up to the 400,”...

If there's a time to see if Spearmon is considering the 400, might it be this weekend at Penn? He ran the 4x400 there in 2006-2009 for the USA teams, splitting 45.5/44.9/45.5/45.5 respectively... Seems like a reasonable place for him to give it a try this season.

Re: Dix
Is he still with John Smith?... maybe valleyrunner knows? Haven't seen anything on Walter since last year.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby TxHottrack » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:10 pm

I think this is a smart decision for Spearmon to move up to the 400. And I think a healthy Dix can still be a factor in the 100/200.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby user4 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:59 pm

If I had to guess, Spearmon will surely have at least a 44low 400m PR by June.
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Re: Spearmon moving up to 400

Postby ATK » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:02 pm

user4 wrote:If I had to guess, Spearmon will surely have at least a 44low 400m PR by June.

Joke?
You have to go back to 2006 to find an athlete besides
Angelo Taylor (#11 AT)
Kirani James(#9 AT)
LaShawn Merritt(#5 AT)
Jeremy Wariner (#3 AT)

before you can get to another athlete that has run 44 low (faster than 44.40)
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