more Russian positives [split]


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more Russian positives [split]

Postby andyjgt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:13 am

Back on topic, a couple more DQs that I've seen on Tilastopaja...and not exactly ones I was hoping for (or expecting in the 2nd case...)

Anzhela Shevchenko, UKR, results annulled from 2 July 2011
Tetyana Petlyuk, UKR, from 18 Aug 2009 (Berlin WC)

Both are banned until February 2015 (18th and 20th).

Shevchenko was coached by Igor Lishchynskyy, who also coached Tobias to a ban in 2011.

No more news of any Turks yet.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby EPelle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:39 am

Petlyuk had been shaking a rather large stick at the Ukrainian Federation recently.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby andyjgt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:47 am

EPelle wrote:Petlyuk had been shaking a rather large stick at the Ukrainian Federation recently.


Can you explain this/provide a link please?
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby EPelle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:53 am

The links have been removed from her Facebook page. Was about unfair treatment of the Ukrainian athletes, lack of support from their leadership, etc. Nothing indicating she'd been served papers for a ban, but pretty harsh wording toward the federation without specifics.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:35 am

So Russia and Ukraine are probably going to get censured, huh?
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby Flumpy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:06 pm

Not a chance.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby peach77 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:18 pm

Not surprised at either of the Ukrainians, though for some reason I really hoped Petlyuk wasn't- her progression etc never suggested it but hey ho.

And in the latest farce:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/22009480

Krivelyova and Kuzenkova have lost more medals...supposedly after being retested by the Russian federation (!) meaning yet more of a mess of the medals in both events from Athens and Helsinki. And Elena Churakova is added to the banned list as a sidenote at the bottom, after testing positive in February.

Are the IAAF ever going to even acknowledge this? How many Russians are we on at the moment serving bans? Surely it's just as big of a crisis as the BALCO scandal but yet it all seems to be being quietly brushed under the carpet...
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby Gabriella » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:18 am

peach77 wrote:Are the IAAF ever going to even acknowledge this? How many Russians are we on at the moment serving bans? Surely it's just as big of a crisis as the BALCO scandal but yet it all seems to be being quietly brushed under the carpet...


I would say this is bigger than BALCO, as this suggest at something akin to what was going on in the GDR IMO.

The IAAF are limited in what they can and will do at the moment because Russia has this years Worlds. They simply cannot come down hard on the federation (publicly at least). However, who knows what is going on behind closed doors.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:39 am

peach77 wrote:Not surprised at either of the Ukrainians, though for some reason I really hoped Petlyuk wasn't- her progression etc never suggested it but hey ho.



has she been caught doping?


And in the latest farce:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/22009480

Krivelyova and Kuzenkova have lost more medals...supposedly after being retested by the Russian federation (!) meaning yet more of a mess of the medals in both events from Athens and Helsinki. And Elena Churakova is added to the banned list as a sidenote at the bottom, after testing positive in February.

Are the IAAF ever going to even acknowledge this? How many Russians are we on at the moment serving bans? Surely it's just as big of a crisis as the BALCO scandal but yet it all seems to be being quietly brushed under the carpet...


As I said elsewhere, the most interesting thing is that all these Russian's being caught are from the same era as the big BALCO doping period, it is however only coming up now. The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities. That suggests that Russia may well be getting it's own house in order like BALCO might have forced US track to do so. There could be a number of reasons for this, the Russian president is a sport nut and may either hate the fact Russian achievement gets undermined by the dopers (imagine how the clean Russians feel) or doesn't want the expected good performance of Russia in their home Athletics championships to be undermined or an embarrassment.

However lets not forget the USA had a few of it's own athletes banned for doping substances last year, Debbie Dunn, Maggie Vessey and T&F News predicted a returned from a 2 year ban Mike Rogers may well be the fastest American this year at Moscow over one of the most famous US cheats and the fastest American in history. Also countries like Turkey and Kenya among others are also being busting big time currently as well. It seems WADA is going nuclear on things.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby peach77 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:00 am

eldanielfire wrote:
has she been caught doping?


Was mentioned a few posts back and Tilastopaja is usually fairly reliable, though I've not seen anything else other than on here, fair point...


As I said elsewhere, the most interesting thing is that all these Russian's being caught are from the same era as the big BALCO doping period, it is however only coming up now.


I disagree. Yes these ones are- and some of the ones caught with the recent retrospective testing of major champs samples- but the majority of athletes serving bans are from "current" tests (sorry, brain addled and can't word this better)

The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities. That suggests that Russia may well be getting it's own house in order like BALCO might have forced US track to do so. There could be a number of reasons for this, the Russian president is a sport nut and may either hate the fact Russian achievement gets undermined by the dopers (imagine how the clean Russians feel) or doesn't want the expected good performance of Russia in their home Athletics championships to be undermined or an embarrassment.


Or, of course, Russia could be finding a couple of sacrificial lambs to show the IAAF they're cleaning their sport up. Pure speculation, of course...

However lets not forget the USA had a few of it's own athletes banned for doping substances last year, Debbie Dunn, Maggie Vessey and T&F News predicted a returned from a 2 year ban Mike Rogers may well be the fastest American this year at Moscow over one of the most famous US cheats and the fastest American in history. Also countries like Turkey and Kenya among others are also being busting big time currently as well. It seems WADA is going nuclear on things.



Not sure what any of this has to do with the USA, but the facts show Russia have over 30 athletes (from what I recall...) serving bans and a quick look on the IAAF lists suggests that no more than 10 Americans are- one of which is Raymond Stewart (!) and another is a coach. I wouldn't say that was comparable at all...

WADA clearly are beginning to shit everyone up and, yes, there's clearly been problems in other countries for some time (we all know what's been going on in Turkey and we all know what's been going on in other places that have gotten away with it for years and that I'm sure I won't be allowed to mention, so won't), but the simple fact remains that Russia seem to have a ridiculously high amount of positives- both "old" and "new" and to the public eye, nothing is being done. As an avid athletics fan, I find the fact that all these names that are getting busted will just be replaced with the next line of shiny faced middle distance runners/ throwers REALLY depressing...
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby jla » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:24 am

The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities.

This is a complete misunderstanding! The busting of Kuzenkova and Krivelyova has been done by the international authorities (IOC/IAAF) who have saved the samples from the 2004 OG and the 2005 WCh to have them retested up to eight years later.
The Russian Federation had absolutely nothing to do with that process. They are now just handing out the convictions. As every national federation is obliged to do whenever informed (by the international authorities) that one of their athletes has been found having violated the doping regulations.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:32 am

peach77 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
has she been caught doping?


Was mentioned a few posts back and Tilastopaja is usually fairly reliable, though I've not seen anything else other than on here, fair point...


As I said elsewhere, the most interesting thing is that all these Russian's being caught are from the same era as the big BALCO doping period, it is however only coming up now.


I disagree. Yes these ones are- and some of the ones caught with the recent retrospective testing of major champs samples- but the majority of athletes serving bans are from "current" tests (sorry, brain addled and can't word this better)


All the articles recently are from current tests on old samples?!?? Is that wrong?

The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities. That suggests that Russia may well be getting it's own house in order like BALCO might have forced US track to do so. There could be a number of reasons for this, the Russian president is a sport nut and may either hate the fact Russian achievement gets undermined by the dopers (imagine how the clean Russians feel) or doesn't want the expected good performance of Russia in their home Athletics championships to be undermined or an embarrassment.


Or, of course, Russia could be finding a couple of sacrificial lambs to show the IAAF they're cleaning their sport up. Pure speculation, of course...


I'm not sure major medalists in big numbers would fit the point of 'sacrificial lambs', but this still avoids the point that there are probably a lot of clean Russian athletes who feel they get screwed by the dopers who take their places and medals.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:34 am

However lets not forget the USA had a few of it's own athletes banned for doping substances last year, Debbie Dunn, Maggie Vessey and T&F News predicted a returned from a 2 year ban Mike Rogers may well be the fastest American this year at Moscow over one of the most famous US cheats and the fastest American in history. Also countries like Turkey and Kenya among others are also being busting big time currently as well. It seems WADA is going nuclear on things.



Not sure what any of this has to do with the USA, but the facts show Russia have over 30 athletes (from what I recall...) serving bans and a quick look on the IAAF lists suggests that no more than 10 Americans are- one of which is Raymond Stewart (!) and another is a coach. I wouldn't say that was comparable at all...

WADA clearly are beginning to shit everyone up and, yes, there's clearly been problems in other countries for some time (we all know what's been going on in Turkey and we all know what's been going on in other places that have gotten away with it for years and that I'm sure I won't be allowed to mention, so won't), but the simple fact remains that Russia seem to have a ridiculously high amount of positives- both "old" and "new" and to the public eye, nothing is being done. As an avid athletics fan, I find the fact that all these names that are getting busted will just be replaced with the next line of shiny faced middle distance runners/ throwers REALLY depressing...


10 and 30 are both huge numbers of dopers for any country. Isn't Kenya uncovered 17? From a British/western european perspective all those are ridiculously high numbers, especially as the USA has on multiple occasions shown to have the most sophiscated doping avoidance methods when their athletes do get busted. And you'll have to forgive me, Western countries often swipe all non western countries with the same brush despite having comparable problems and even western countries with big doping issues tend to look at those as isolated individuals, however frequently they occur, while any non-western country gets generalisations about their whole Athletics federation. It's the sort of cultural psychology that gets people to make completely off the cuff doping accusations about Chinese swimmers but not a hint of suspicion about Missy Franklin's exceptional performances or Chad le Clos or doesn't make sweeping assumptions about Australian sports despite the fact a massive criminal doping scheme has been uncovered that is unlikely to be restricted to one sport. The other point I was making is a lot more doping appears to being uncovered by modern tests. This is good. But if we focus on a few countries, which doping discussions often do, we miss some of the bigger and more concerning trends. Kenya seem to be a bit of a surprise to everybody for having such a massive doping problem come to light.

[
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:35 am

jla wrote:
The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities.

This is a complete misunderstanding! The busting of Kuzenkova and Krivelyova has been done by the international authorities (IOC/IAAF) who have saved the samples from the 2004 OG and the 2005 WCh to have them retested up to eight years later.
The Russian Federation had absolutely nothing to do with that process. They are now just handing out the convictions. As every national federation is obliged to do whenever informed (by the international authorities) that one of their athletes has been found having violated the doping regulations.


The BBC article said specifically:

Shot putter Krivelyova and hammer thrower Kuzenkova - both now retired - were caught after old samples were re-examined by the Russian athletics federation (VFLA).


Isn't this true?
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby Blues » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:26 am

eldanielfire wrote:
jla wrote:
The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities.

This is a complete misunderstanding! The busting of Kuzenkova and Krivelyova has been done by the international authorities (IOC/IAAF) who have saved the samples from the 2004 OG and the 2005 WCh to have them retested up to eight years later.
The Russian Federation had absolutely nothing to do with that process. They are now just handing out the convictions. As every national federation is obliged to do whenever informed (by the international authorities) that one of their athletes has been found having violated the doping regulations.


The BBC article said specifically:

Shot putter Krivelyova and hammer thrower Kuzenkova - both now retired - were caught after old samples were re-examined by the Russian athletics federation (VFLA).


Isn't this true?


I've been under the impression that the IAAF ordered the testing, and that if a Russian athlete tested positive, the case was then forwarded to the Russians...

From the Russian Anti-Doping website:

December 14, 2012

International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), following an AAF return on Sample A reported by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Lausanne, initiated a review of a possible anti-doping rule violation by the Russian athlete Olga Kuzenkova (sport discipline - athletics). The sample was collected on August 12, 2005 during the IAAF World Championships 2005 in Helsinki, Finland.

In early December 2012 the case was forwarded to RUSADA.

Olga Kuzenkova has been informed of the potential ADRV and her rights.

RUSADA Press Service



http://www.rusada.ru/en/press/news/poss ... der-review
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby gh » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:49 am

I believe that by definition all federations ("all"?) are out of the drug-testing business. Removing conflicts of interest was one of the reason the whole ADA thing came about in the first place. The federation ends up responsible for disciplinary actions, but they're not active on the chemistry side of things. At least that's how I understand it.

If something has been "referred to the Russians" it's not the federation, it's the Russian ADA.

No?
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby jla » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:49 pm

eldanielfire wrote:
jla wrote:
The other interesting thing is that it's the Russian authorities who are busting them, not the wider anti-doping authorities.

This is a complete misunderstanding! The busting of Kuzenkova and Krivelyova has been done by the international authorities (IOC/IAAF) who have saved the samples from the 2004 OG and the 2005 WCh to have them retested up to eight years later.
The Russian Federation had absolutely nothing to do with that process. They are now just handing out the convictions. As every national federation is obliged to do whenever informed (by the international authorities) that one of their athletes has been found having violated the doping regulations.

The BBC article said specifically:
Shot putter Krivelyova and hammer thrower Kuzenkova - both now retired - were caught after old samples were re-examined by the Russian athletics federation (VFLA).

Isn't this true?


No, it is - as said - a mis-understanding (some kind of "lost in translation" error)
Actually it is obviously impossible for any national federation to - even in they wanted to - re-examine old samples first collected by an international authority and then preserved for 8 years at the request of that authority. Those samples are completely out of reach physically and legally for the national federations.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:03 pm

peach77 wrote:Not sure what any of this has to do with the USA, but the facts show Russia have over 30 athletes (from what I recall...) serving bans and a quick look on the IAAF lists suggests that no more than 10 Americans are- one of which is Raymond Stewart (!) and another is a coach. I wouldn't say that was comparable at all...

WADA clearly are beginning to shit everyone up and, yes, there's clearly been problems in other countries for some time (we all know what's been going on in Turkey and we all know what's been going on in other places that have gotten away with it for years and that I'm sure I won't be allowed to mention, so won't), but the simple fact remains that Russia seem to have a ridiculously high amount of positives- both "old" and "new" and to the public eye, nothing is being done. As an avid athletics fan, I find the fact that all these names that are getting busted will just be replaced with the next line of shiny faced middle distance runners/ throwers REALLY depressing...

I thought Raymond Stewart was Jamaican (#1 in the 100 in 1989).
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:26 pm

So Ostapchuk is going to get a bronze medal? :lol:
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:23 pm

The aggressive recent uncovering of past dopers could have something to do with the biological passports? Now they are coming to fruit the drug agencies can remove a generation of dopers and change the culture?

A non-doping culture is one of the ways to help prevent doping. If the bad infulences are removed and doping is shown on mass to not pay, people will more likely to avoid it.
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby peach77 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:42 am

CookyMonzta wrote:I thought Raymond Stewart was Jamaican (#1 in the 100 in 1989).


That was my point!

His ban came as a coach- I guess he had US coach accreditation. Or they've just made a mistake on the site...
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby gh » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:56 am

eldanielfire wrote:...
A non-doping culture is one of the ways to help prevent doping. If the bad infulences are removed and doping is shown on mass to not pay, people will more likely to avoid it.


Yes that worked so well with Prohibition, and the War On Drugs has certainly cleaned up the streets, hasn't it? :?
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Re: Çakır-Alptekin positive?

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:59 am

peach77 wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:I thought Raymond Stewart was Jamaican (#1 in the 100 in 1989).


That was my point!

His ban came as a coach- I guess he had US coach accreditation. Or they've just made a mistake on the site...


He is/was a US coach...Jerome Young being the most prominent I guess. Also Beverly McDonald of Jamaica's coach and husband...at least at one time.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby batonless relay » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:24 am

I can't think of a single European global medalist from the last 30 years that I didn't hear rumors about. That's right, that would include those who wear the Union Jack on their vests. Not a single athlete. For you Brits (en fuego?) who continue to slander American "culture" and PED's... you might want to look in the figurative mirror of your "champions" who never tested positive during that era with a magnifying glass.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby mump boy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:33 am

batonless relay wrote:I can't think of a single European global medalist from the last 30 years that I didn't hear rumors about. That's right, that would include those who wear the Union Jack on their vests. Not a single athlete. For you Brits (en fuego?) who continue to slander American "culture" and PED's... you might want to look in the figurative mirror of your "champions" who never tested positive during that era with a magnifying glass.


You're so right, remember all that talk about Hayley Tullet :roll:
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby gh » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:33 am

I am seriously considering making it a termination-worthy offense to bring up ancient drug stories that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

All you who persist in doing so can consider yourself warned. And get yourselves another hobby besides pointing fingers.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:01 am

gh, I am not at all clear about the 'parameters' of that warning. It might be good to use modest bans so that the application of the 'rule' is more clear.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby andyjgt » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:17 am

Should I have set up my own thread then, given that my post wasn't directly about Cakir-Alptekin or any other Turks (and Shevchenko didn't stand to benefit from the Turk's DQ, though a fellow Ukrainian might...)

Anyway Garry, shouldn't you have renamed this thread UKRAINIAN positives?

Yes, both DQs are on the IAAF list and both were on Twitter yesterday, both were biological passport cases. Maz Okoro seemed disappointed, Tamsyn Manou predictably was not surprised. (I was a bit by Petlyuk, given her average form in recent years - Shevchenko not really after Tobias' ban last year, though maybe still a bit because she was still crap.)
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby gh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:25 am

This story in Russian

http://skirun.ru/2013/04/10/rodchenkova-doping/

according to the tweeter who posted it, says that the sister of the head of Moscow's anti-doping center has been sentenced in a PED-trafficking case.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:14 am

I ran it through google translate and it basically said that.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby eldanielfire » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:38 pm

"Formally, Gregory M. Rodchenkov has nothing to do with the case - said one of them. - But in that world, which is called civilized, this situation would have cost him his career. When you are one of the most important in the country's anti-doping experts, who heads the country's largest laboratory, you pass through thousands of doping tests - and suddenly your relatives receive a sentence for distribution of illicit drugs ... It's more immediate and voluntary resignation. Solely on ethical grounds. Why do we not? First, because we live in Russia. Second, Rodchenkov - professional, little known even in the world. If he leaves his place to put certain. "

Which falls under the Ministry of Sports of Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Russian Anti-Doping Center," which is better known as the Russian anti-doping laboratory, is one of 33 in the world anti-doping laboratories accredited by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Ph.D., master of sports of athletics Gregory Rodchenkov heads the laboratory since 2006 (before that year and a half was the acting). According to experts, Rodchenkov plays a significant role in efforts to combat the use of performance-enhancing drugs in our country.

"In the Russian sport the same problem as in politics: any sudden movement, and immediately have to stir up the past, raised the war of compromising, - says another expert on anti-doping. - We all know that in this industry on the spot Rodchenkova could be every second, you can point the finger at random and is unlikely to make a mistake. So cleaned in parts fail, only in its entirety. You know the story about the famous department of Sports Medicine University of Freiburg? In 2009, it caught the fraud Doping two hematologist, and the Germans immediately shut down the entire department, and that dozens of employees, pro-class. Because they understand that doping - is evil, it's a dead end for the sport. "

In Russia, this understanding is still far. The latest example: As a candidate for a place in the national biathlon team before the 2014 Sochi seen a doctor Andrey Dmitriev. The man who four years ago was sacked after doping scandal biathletes Albina Akhatova Catherine St. George and Dmitri Yaroshenko. Even if we assume that only Dmitriev scapegoat in the story, in a different place and other circumstances, the road to the sport it would be closed. We still go the other way.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby mump boy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:58 pm

On front page Irina Privalova has some harsh words for drug cheats :? :roll:

RBTH gained exclusive access to the thoughts of Sydney Olympic champion Irina Privalova. "It is sad that the Russian team has lost another Olympic hope,” she said.
"Churakova did Russia proud in London and could have medaled. However, I don't think our sport has lost her completely. Elena must continue to train and not lose heart.”
“As for Kuzenkova and Krivelyova, there is nothing much to say. They finished their careers a long time ago,” said Privalova.


http://rbth.ru/arts/sport/2013/04/11/ru ... 24913.html
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby eldanielfire » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:02 pm

mump boy wrote:On front page Irina Privalova has some harsh words for drug cheats :? :roll:

RBTH gained exclusive access to the thoughts of Sydney Olympic champion Irina Privalova. "It is sad that the Russian team has lost another Olympic hope,” she said.
"Churakova did Russia proud in London and could have medaled. However, I don't think our sport has lost her completely. Elena must continue to train and not lose heart.”
“As for Kuzenkova and Krivelyova, there is nothing much to say. They finished their careers a long time ago,” said Privalova.


http://rbth.ru/arts/sport/2013/04/11/ru ... 24913.html


To be fair it's a few select sentences on a pro-Russia "news" website translated.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:13 am

Because Russian doping news isn't already in an utter ridiculous position, 2 more bans:

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/arz ... DSZsF4t.99

Arzhakova caught me by surprise, seemed a genuinely talented U23 runner who was the real deal. Now stripped of her U23 and European titles.

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?

Also is it just he athletes or are a lot of coaches doping their athletes up with their consent?

In addition to Arzhakova and Pishchalnikova, Austrian Susanne Pumper is also banned.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby Blues » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:43 am

eldanielfire wrote:Because Russian doping news isn't already in an utter ridiculous position, 2 more bans:

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/arz ... DSZsF4t.99

Arzhakova caught me by surprise, seemed a genuinely talented U23 runner who was the real deal. Now stripped of her U23 and European titles.

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?


Arzhakova's positive had to do with an unsual hemoglobin result, which is indicative of a PED like EPO, or some other illegal process that increases red blood cell production.. I'm not sure of the answer regarding why women have been testing positive more often, but one guess, at least when it comes to steroids, is that female athlete PED users often prefer to use anabolic steroids that don't have as much masculinizing effect as testosterone has, and oxandrolone is a perfect example.. Since these aren't substances that are normally found in the body like testosterone is, even a tiny amount will trigger a positive test. Testosterone on the other hand, can be carefully microdosed and combined with epitestosterone, to provide anabolic benefit but often still avoid triggering a positive test (if levels and ratios in the body can be kept within normal limits at the time of a drug test)... I'm sure there are other reasons why women seem to be testing positive more frequently than men, but the differences in the type of anabolic agents used is one possibility that comes to mind.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:50 am

eldanielfire wrote:

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?


Most likely all of the talented men, the ones who have a better chance of getting tested, are playing soccer, where the real money is.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby norunner » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:29 am

Conor Dary wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?


Most likely all of the talented men, the ones who have a better chance of getting tested, are playing soccer, where the real money is.
Soccer? Don't you mean football as in NFL? You can't just get into soccer without having played it for years like you can in american football.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:34 am

norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?


Most likely all of the talented men, the ones who have a better chance of getting tested, are playing soccer, where the real money is.
Soccer? Don't you mean football as in NFL? You can't just get into soccer without having played it for years like you can in american football.


We are talking about the Russians, though it applies to all of Europe. And I am talking about the young talent that goes straight into soccer and skipping track altogether. Why would any young European male with speed go into track when all of the money is in soccer? And they all probably learn to play from an early age, if only just kicking the ball around.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby norunner » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:15 am

Conor Dary wrote:
norunner wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

While I know testosterone has a greater effect on women than men, why is there such an abundance of women being caught and not men in all kinds of doping?


Most likely all of the talented men, the ones who have a better chance of getting tested, are playing soccer, where the real money is.
Soccer? Don't you mean football as in NFL? You can't just get into soccer without having played it for years like you can in american football.


We are talking about the Russians, though it applies to all of Europe. And I am talking about the young talent that goes straight into soccer and skipping track altogether. Why would any young European male with speed go into track when all of the money is in soccer? And they all probably learn to play from an early age, if only just kicking the ball around.
Because money isn't everything, my nephews best friend had the opportunity to get into the talent program of Bayern Munich. However it would have meant moving away from his family and friends and he didn't want to do that. Or maybe the best example is Adam Gemili, who despite having a soccer contract decided to become a full time sprinter.
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Re: more Russian positives [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:22 am

Yes, I am sure there are plenty of anectodal exceptions. But for a huge majority the focus, from a young age, is going into soccer. It is huge money now. That is pretty much why European track really doesn't exist much anymore. The meets are there, but where are the teams? In the WCCC Europe was pretty much nonexistent.
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