Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational 2013


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational 2013

Postby starboyunlimited » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:00 am

Usain Bolt beaten into 2nd by Nicholas Maithland 45.79 to 46.44 in the men's 400m UWI Invitational 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOdckFVKX3U

Yohan Blake loses to Allodin Fothergill 46.24 to 46.33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZzThgOcLPU
starboyunlimited
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:03 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby user4 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:15 am

I have no doubt that Bolt is a sub 44 second 400m man given even a mere 9 months of specialization. Having said that it just goes to show that being able to run 200 in 19 seconds says very little about how fast you can then run the next 200 (26 seconds ?) when not trained for it.
user4
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:38 am

These losses mean absolutely nothing to either athlete. Bolt has repeatedly said he hates running the 400m.

He has been running 45+ in the event since he was in high school and has not improved much. We know what both athletes can do in their primary events 100/200m.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby GHM » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:18 am

On a negative side. these side these two guys avoid each other running in a same heat of 400m in a low key national event. One of the things that T&F is dead (not dying) in public eyes. Public can not demand athletes run against each other but they sure can stop going to stadiums.
GHM
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby norunner » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:26 am

user4 wrote:I have no doubt that Bolt is a sub 44 second 400m man given even a mere 9 months of specialization.
Really, even Michael Johnson needed several years of 400m running and training before he managed a sub 44. I wonder how much "specialization" it would take before Bolt could turn water into wine?
norunner
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:21 pm

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:35 am

norunner wrote:
user4 wrote:I have no doubt that Bolt is a sub 44 second 400m man given even a mere 9 months of specialization.
Really, even Michael Johnson needed several years of 400m running and training before he managed a sub 44. I wonder how much "specialization" it would take before Bolt could turn water into wine?


Bolt doesn't care about runnning the 400m and thus, it will not happen in a open 44.

He has already run a 43+ anchor leg in a 4 x 400m in 2010.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby zidan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:38 am

I must admit that when he has run 400s in the last couple years, he has looked anything but special. I however cannot forget how good he was, running the event as a junior and of course that mind-blowing 45.35 as a 16 year old.
zidan
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:54 pm

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:33 am

zidan wrote:I must admit that when he has run 400s in the last couple years, he has looked anything but special. I however cannot forget how good he was, running the event as a junior and of course that mind-blowing 45.35 as a 16 year old.


In high school, he was a 200/400m specialist and holds the high school records in both. He has always hated the 400m though. His favorite event has always been the 200m.

So for all those fans salivating about the possibility of him moving up to the 400m, it is not going to happen. Not because he doesn't have the ability(has has run 43+4 x 400 anchor legs before), he just doesn't want to do it and its that simple.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:53 am

jamboy wrote:
norunner wrote:
user4 wrote:I have no doubt that Bolt is a sub 44 second 400m man given even a mere 9 months of specialization.
Really, even Michael Johnson needed several years of 400m running and training before he managed a sub 44. I wonder how much "specialization" it would take before Bolt could turn water into wine?


Bolt doesn't care about runnning the 400m and thus, it will not happen in a open 44.

He has already run a 43+ anchor leg in a 4 x 400m in 2010.

Relay legs mean very little. Mike Berry ran a 43.X leg in Daegu and hasn't come close to that in the open 400 despite the fact that he's a 400 specialist.
JumboElliott
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:02 am

JumboElliott wrote:
jamboy wrote:
norunner wrote:
user4 wrote:I have no doubt that Bolt is a sub 44 second 400m man given even a mere 9 months of specialization.
Really, even Michael Johnson needed several years of 400m running and training before he managed a sub 44. I wonder how much "specialization" it would take before Bolt could turn water into wine?


Bolt doesn't care about runnning the 400m and thus, it will not happen in a open 44.

He has already run a 43+ anchor leg in a 4 x 400m in 2010.

Relay legs mean very little. Mike Berry ran a 43.X leg in Daegu and hasn't come close to that in the open 400 despite the fact that he's a 400 specialist.


You obviously missed the point. That time on a relays and based on his prior 400m specialization shows that he has potential. And that is all we will see of Bolt in the 400.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:43 am

What does that even mean?
JumboElliott
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:00 pm

JumboElliott wrote:What does that even mean?


Bolt has the potential to be a great 400m runner. It will never happen however for one simple reason. He does not like the event and most times than not, he jogs his races running just enough to win or place. Nothing more to it.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby Fortius19 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:48 pm

That 43.x relay time of Bolt's was mis-timed.

And short of 400 meters.

it means nothing
Fortius19
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:18 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby aaronk » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:04 pm

I notice that SAFP's 56.63 400 has been left out of this debate!!
(Although this thread isn't supposed to be about her!)
I'd say that 56.63 is far worse in quality than either of the B Boys times!!
aaronk
 
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JRM » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:29 pm

jamboy wrote:Bolt doesn't care about runnning the 400m and thus, it will not happen in a open 44.



Whenever Bolt loses a race, it's because he didn't care about it.
JRM
 
Posts: 2625
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:30 pm

JRM wrote:
jamboy wrote:Bolt doesn't care about runnning the 400m and thus, it will not happen in a open 44.



Whenever Bolt loses a race, it's because he didn't care about it.


Because he really doesn't. Bolt is a 100/200m sprinter that has repeatedly said that he does not care about the 400m. Not sure what is so difficult about that to understand. Sheeezzzzzt.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:31 pm

So Bolt could be a world class 800 runner if he decided to care about that event?
JumboElliott
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:32 pm

aaronk wrote:I notice that SAFP's 56.63 400 has been left out of this debate!!
(Although this thread isn't supposed to be about her!)
I'd say that 56.63 is far worse in quality than either of the B Boys times!!


No need for anyone to get hysterical about the fastest woman in the world running a slow 400m time. She is a speedster over 100 and 200m. She is not looking to conquer any new territory in the 400m. She just uses this event like most sprinters as a training base. Nothing more . Nothing less.
Last edited by jamboy on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:33 pm

JumboElliott wrote:So Bolt could be a world class 800 runner if he decided to care about that event?


Only a fool would make such an assumption.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:36 pm

Fortius19 wrote:That 43.x relay time of Bolt's was mis-timed.

And short of 400 meters.

it means nothing


All the experts agree the time was legit and accurate.

I remember when Bolt first ran 9.76 (his first sub 10) at the Jamaica Invitational in 2008. Alot of experts included Michael Johnson was skeptical of the time. Now, Michael now praises Bolt as the GOAT. How ironic. lol :D
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby 18.99s » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:49 pm

aaronk wrote:I notice that SAFP's 56.63 400 has been left out of this debate!!
(Although this thread isn't supposed to be about her!)
I'd say that 56.63 is far worse in quality than either of the B Boys times!!


She recently finished training for the indoor 60m, so her legs are far less 400m-ready than others who have spent the last 2-3 months in overdistance/background training.
18.99s
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:28 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:32 pm

jamboy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:So Bolt could be a world class 800 runner if he decided to care about that event?


Only a fool would make such an assumption.

Well you said that he isn't good at the 400 because he doesn't care about it.

Perhaps his muscles just aren't built for the event?
JumboElliott
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby shivfan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:09 am

starboyunlimited wrote:Usain Bolt beaten into 2nd by Nicholas Maithland 45.79 to 46.44 in the men's 400m UWI Invitational 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOdckFVKX3U

Yohan Blake loses to Allodin Fothergill 46.24 to 46.33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZzThgOcLPU

Thanks for these....
shivfan
 
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Just outside London

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby Tuariki » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:22 am

JumboElliott wrote:
jamboy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:So Bolt could be a world class 800 runner if he decided to care about that event?


Only a fool would make such an assumption.

Well you said that he isn't good at the 400 because he doesn't care about it.

Perhaps his muscles just aren't built for the event?

I guess he must have changed his muscles since his 45.35 in high school
Tuariki
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Rohe o Te Whanau a Apanui

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby gibson » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:41 am

summarizing the "facts",

bolt has run 45. as a junior.....
bolt runs about the same now if he backed off training
bolt is what? 15-20 kg heavier now. http://berlin.iaaf.org/news/kind=100/newsid=22064.html
bolt is a second or so faster in the 200m.
bolt is what?: 0.8 second faster at 100m.

"facts say" bolt's body has changed favorably via training and maturation for speed - at the cost of 400m improvement.

maybe it is about time the stats guys posted a best 100 / 400 m table, maybe it is too much to ask that for results to be in the same calendar year.

last thought ? tyson gay runs 44 high and 0.2 off the 200m record, does he not have a real shot at the 300m record?
gibson
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:57 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby mal » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:14 am

If Bolt hurts in these low 46 second runs, then he'll never have the potential to break the 400 WR. Nothing seems to be growing except a dislike of 400 m.
mal
 
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:40 pm

mal wrote:If Bolt hurts in these low 46 second runs, then he'll never have the potential to break the 400 WR. Nothing seems to be growing except a dislike of 400 m.


He doesn't train for the event so of course it is going to hurt.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby Gabriella » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:00 am

I'm sorry but I've never understood why an athlete would run a one off 400m at the start of the season and not try their best.

What exactly is the point? I understand why athletes train over distance. I understand why athletes would be time trialed in training at over distance. I understand why athletes would compete in an over distance event for some motivation or to get a PB. I do not understand why an athlete competes in an over distance event and doesn't try. If he hates the event it's not even for fun.

What does this 56.63 tell us about Fraser-Pryce's form over 100/200? What did she gain from running a really awful time over 400m? I can't see any postives at all and it's just a waste of time. What does Bolt and Blakes runs tell us? Completely nothing other than they insist on avoiding each other even when running non specialist events and not even taking the race seriously (allegedly)

Someone wake me up when we see a fast time or they run against each other.
Gabriella
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:59 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby Sasuke » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:22 am

My thoughts are the same of Gabriella. And I go on wondering why a lot of people (also here) continue to overstimate Bolt's potential over the one lap event. Well, yep, he ran a very good time when he was a junior but he is no more a youngster (he is now almost 27). Why can't some of you just accept he is not capable of running 43 in 400 metres? Being ''the fastest man on Earth'' doesn't mean you must also be the 400 metres record holder. Michael Johnson was a 200/400 type while Bolt simply isn't... in addition, Blake and he are probably doing some overdistance work in this period and so you can't say ''he doesn't train for 400 metres''... as I was saying in another thread being fast doesn't mean you can be a beast if you move up in distance.

Bolt has a huge talent (and so has Blake) but this doesn't mean they have a huge potential also in the 400 metres.
Sasuke
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:32 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby ZELLGADISS » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:15 am

Running in few days a 150m, it was very logical that Bolt did not get very good time in 400.
He only ran by Mills, for to get good endurance speed.

On Sunday we will see how is the real speed of Bolt in sprint :D
Last edited by ZELLGADISS on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
ZELLGADISS
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:13 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby ExCoastRanger » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:28 am

JumboElliott wrote: Perhaps his muscles just aren't built for the event?


It's the muscle between his ears that's not built for the event.
ExCoastRanger
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: North of where I was.

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby JRM » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:31 am

Gabriella wrote:I'm sorry but I've never understood why an athlete would run a one off 400m at the start of the season and not try their best.



I would say its either (a) to collect appearance fees, and/or (b) for a training run. If it's (a) and they simply blow off the race by jogging, it seems like that's a slap in the face to the meet promoters. If it's (b) and they don't really push it, why enter the race at all? Do repeat 400s in your workout.
JRM
 
Posts: 2625
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby KevinM » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:45 am

Gabriella wrote:I'm sorry but I've never understood why an athlete would run a one off 400m at the start of the season and not try their best.


Are your armchair ideals of what constitutes “proper” effort really offended by the two fastest men in history at 100 and 200 using a low-key meet to get some over-distance work in?

JRM wrote:I would say its either (a) to collect appearance fees, and/or (b) for a training run. If it's (a) and they simply blow off the race by jogging, it seems like that's a slap in the face to the meet promoters. If it's (b) and they don't really push it, why enter the race at all? Do repeat 400s in your workout.


Think I'll defer to Glen Mills on this one.
KevinM
 
Posts: 2651
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby Daisy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:44 am

I've always seen these early 400's as getting rid of the cobwebs.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby KevinM » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:47 am

Daisy wrote:I've always seen these early 400's as getting rid of the cobwebs.


I agree. Not all races can or should be statistically relevant or subject to nit-picking.
KevinM
 
Posts: 2651
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:59 am

JRM wrote:
Gabriella wrote:I'm sorry but I've never understood why an athlete would run a one off 400m at the start of the season and not try their best.



I would say its either (a) to collect appearance fees, and/or (b) for a training run. If it's (a) and they simply blow off the race by jogging, it seems like that's a slap in the face to the meet promoters. If it's (b) and they don't really push it, why enter the race at all? Do repeat 400s in your workout.


I don't believe these small development meets in Jamaica have much of an sizeable budget much less a significant appearance fee.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby 18.99s » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:50 am

jamboy wrote:I don't believe these small development meets in Jamaica have much of an sizeable budget much less a significant appearance fee.

I would be seriously surprised if there is any appearance fee for anybody running anything in Jamaica (except the International Invitational in May).
18.99s
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:28 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby portsea57 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:23 pm

There's two things about Bolt and the 400m.
First, does he have the mental toughness to train and race the 400m at the top level?
Secondly, can he get his head around the fact that 400m is where he's got to go if he is going to leapfrog over Nurmi, Zatopek, Geb, and few others, and be considered the greatest runner in history.
What the Bolt legacy needs is really drama, and the 400m will attract that in bucket loads!
portsea57
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby jamboy » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:47 pm

18.99s wrote:
jamboy wrote:I don't believe these small development meets in Jamaica have much of an sizeable budget much less a significant appearance fee.

I would be seriously surprised if there is any appearance fee for anybody running anything in Jamaica (except the International Invitational in May).


I believe you are correct.
jamboy
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Blake 46.33 beats Bolt over 400m Video UWI Invitational

Postby gh » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:14 pm

and it sounds as if they had a tough time coming up with money to pay much for the Kingston meet this year.
gh
 
Posts: 46333
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests

cron