Short 7' straddle high jumpers


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Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cask1 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:43 am

Anyone know how many '7 straddle high jumpers were under 6'? And who?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Per Andersen » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:47 pm

cask1 wrote:Anyone know how many '7 straddle high jumpers were under 6'? And who?

I don't think there were many. It pretty much had to be done in the 1962-1972 window.

I think Joe Faust was about 6ft. Bob Avant might have been under 6ft. Maybe Gene Johnson.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby rhymans » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:18 pm

Guys under 6'0 included

Barry Shepard [AzSt] 5'11 7'2
Gene White 5'11 7'2 [a western roller I believe]
Rudi Köppen [GDR] 5'10 7'1 7/8
Henri Elliott [FRA] 5'9 7'1 1/2
Eric Howard 5'10 7'1 1/2
Johannes Lahti [FIN] 5'11 7'1
Ladislav Borodac [CZE] 5'10 7'1
Ed Hanks (BYU) 5'10 7'0 1/2
Kuniyoshi Sugioka [JPN] 5'11 7'0 1/2
Henri Elende [CGO] 5'9 1/2 7'0 1/4
Wolfgang Schillkowski [WG] 5'10 7'0 1/4
Ioannis Koussoulas [GRE] 5'11 7'0 1/4
Bill McClellon (NY HS) 5'11 7'0
Fred Jackson 5'11 7'0

I think that's it.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby jhc68 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:19 am

Nice list!
Were you thinking of Gene Johnson - the last great western roller?
I think Eddie Hanks might have been 5-10 after several hours of being stretched on the rack...otherwise more like 5-8.
Also six feet is pretty arbitrary as a cut off... lot's of great straddlers were not much over that height. Most notably Brumel.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cask1 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:59 am

Wow...these are great...thanks. Yes I think Faust and Brumel were both about 6' 1/2".
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby dj » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:58 am

[quote="rhymans"]Guys under 6'0 included

Gene White 5'11 7'2 [a western roller I believe]/quote]

Gene White was flopping at least by 1970, when he cleared 6-9 as a high school senior. I think he was probably flopping in 1969 (6-6), but I don't remember for certain.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby bambam » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:00 am

rhymans wrote:Gene White 5'11 7'2 [a western roller I believe]


Help me here. Is there much difference between the straddle and the western roll? Can somebody explain the precise difference to me?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby kuha » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:02 am

bambam wrote:
rhymans wrote:Gene White 5'11 7'2 [a western roller I believe]


Help me here. Is there much difference between the straddle and the western roll? Can somebody explain the precise difference to me?


As far as I recall, with the Western roll, the legs go over the bar together, with the entire body basically parallel to the bar. With the straddle, of course, the legs are widely separated, and the body's overall center of gravity is lower than with the Western Roll.

edit;
http://pinoyathletics.com/2012/09/16/ev ... high-jump/
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby no one » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:35 am

how tall/short was Rory Kotinek?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cullman » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:41 am

I got this one from Sports-Reference/Athletics at the 1964 Tokyo Summer Games: Men's High Jump
Edward Czernik [POL] 5'11" 7' 2 1/2"
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby KDFINE » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:57 pm

Did anyone else ever jump like Bob Avant? What should his style have been called? Something like but not quite a straddle?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:30 pm

KDFINE wrote:Did anyone else ever jump like Bob Avant? What should his style have been called? Something like but not quite a straddle?

Nobody quite like Avant. But I would still call it an extreme Dive straddle. He had a raised lead knee when he went in over the bar.

Yes. Gene Johnson was a Western roller but I think Stan Albright is the highest Roller of all time 7-1 1/2 in the 70's indoors. Can be verified in T&FN but I can't do it now.

The thing with the Roll was that it was so easy to learn. Simplicity itself. But when jumpers started to speed up the roll in the air, it lead to the Straddle and by then the "no diving" rule was eliminated. A good illustration is Albritton ( early straddler) and Corny Johnson (roller) in the Olympic video which is here now (History board)

Vladimir Sitkin 2.15 with "the shoe" was 5-11.
Last edited by Per Andersen on Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cask1 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:39 pm

I think Rory Kotinek was about 6'1". And I think his best straddle was 7'1", and his best flop was 7' 6".
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Dave » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:01 pm

cask1 wrote:I think Rory Kotinek was about 6'1". And I think his best straddle was 7'1", and his best flop was 7' 6".


Have there been very many high jumpers who could go over 7' with as a flopper and a straddler? That seems really unusual to me.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby jhc68 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:35 am

Matzdorf and certainly some others (Stones most likely and many others if they had chosen to do so) but the guestion is why? If you are an elite jumper capable of 7 foot clearances then why mess around with another technique?

Also - to reinforce -there were MANY straddlers only slighty taller than six feet with marks over or very close to 7 ft.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby dj » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:13 am

jhc68 wrote:Matzdorf and certainly some others (Stones most likely and many others if they had chosen to do so) but the guestion is why? If you are an elite jumper capable of 7 foot clearances then why mess around with another technique?


Most--probably all--of the jumpers who cleared 7-0 with both styles were in the process of converting to the flop. Remember that 7-0 was no longer elite by the time the flop came into being, the WR being 7-5 3/4 (2.28) at that time.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:57 pm

dj wrote:Most--probably all--of the jumpers who cleared 7-0 with both styles were in the process of converting to the flop. Remember that 7-0 was no longer elite by the time the flop came into being, the WR being 7-5 3/4 (2.28) at that time.

Exactly.
Stones did straddle early in high school and he liked to play around with that technique later on. He sometimes used to straddle on lower heights in meets. But of course, the only other technique we see these days is the scissors during warm-ups.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby bambam » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:42 pm

kuha wrote:http://pinoyathletics.com/2012/09/16/evolution-high-jump/


Nice site - thanx for that link
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby mrbowie » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:42 pm

Although not a 7-foot jumper, Gene Zubrinsky of Glendale College came close. I think he went over 6'11" or 6'10 3/4" maybe. He couldn't have been more than 5' 7 1/2" and probably was shorter. He was like a human hover craft, with a slow approach and a straight up vertical leap that was astonishing to see. And maybe one of the funniest S. O. B.s that ever lived!
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cask1 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:18 pm

KDFINE wrote:Did anyone else ever jump like Bob Avant? What should his style have been called? Something like but not quite a straddle?


I never saw Bobby Avant jump but from the sound of it Randy Fulkerson might of had a similar technique. Fulkerson was 5'7" and jumped 6' 10" in the 1970 California HS state meet as a junior. I believe that he and Rory Kotenik were the best HS jumpers in LA in 1970. Dwight Stones did not take over until 1971.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:59 pm

bambam wrote:
kuha wrote:http://pinoyathletics.com/2012/09/16/evolution-high-jump/


Nice site - thanx for that link

Doesn't hurt that the western roller is Mary Bignal Rand!!!

But he should not have called the Eastern cut-off the Japanese cut-off. Had nothing to do with the far east. It was east coast USA.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby jhc68 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:46 am

Max Lowe jumped a little bit like Avant... almost straight-on approach then throw both hands up and over the bar and belly dive.

I disagree that 7 feet was not an elite height at the advent of the flop. Yes the WR was 7'5 & 3/4" but in 1968 a seven foot clearance was still notable. Now days the same differential fro the WR would be 7'8" - a ht that would win most elite events.

How tall was Les Steers?
And Paul Stuber?

And yeah Gene Zubrinsky was a great small straddler!
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby KDFINE » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:59 am

Has the "Message Boards" carried height differential tables for straddlers, floppers and others?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:14 am

jhc68 wrote:
I disagree that 7 feet was not an elite height at the advent of the flop. Yes the WR was 7'5 & 3/4" but in 1968 a seven foot clearance was still notable. Now days the same differential fro the WR would be 7'8" - a ht that would win most elite events.


There is a difference between elite and notable. Clearing 7 ft. may sound nice but wasn't going to win much.

If in 1968, 7ft was elite, then what about 6'11 3/4"? I don't think so.

dj is right.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby jhc68 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:49 am

KD... go to TFN homepage and follow the archive link to find Holm's list of overhead jumpers. Not many straddlers there however.
Conor you are certainly right in citing the emotional impact of 1/4 inch. Still in 1968 7'4" won OG gold and Eddie Caruthers was second at 7'3" so a 7 ft jumper was only 3 inches away from an OG medal. Four years later Stones medalled with another 7'3" mark. So in my paradigm 7 feet was an elite mark in that era. By 1976 not so much!
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby kuha » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:03 am

I'd agree that something like 7'2" was still an "elite" mark in those days, but not 7 feet even..whether that difference is enough to quibble about, I don't know.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Per Andersen » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:22 am

Jhc68. But in the 1972 Olympics the top 15 jumpers jumpers were over 2.15 (7-1/2).

I think Steers was slghtly over 6-1 and Paul Stuber was considerably taller than Faust who was 6ft.

Holm's list is interesting and fun but I don't think any jumper has a special advantage by being taller than 6-6. Sjoberg was unique in that in additon of being 6-6 he had possibly the most efficient clearance technique of them all. Sotomayor was under 6-5.

Tallest WR holder was Buddy Davies and he was neither a straddle or a flopper.
Last edited by Per Andersen on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby no one » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:40 pm

I think kotinek had other superior marks ... 253.## jav,
25.5lj, and ?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby cask1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:06 pm

no one wrote:I think kotinek had other superior marks ... 253.## jav,
25.5lj, and ?


14.3HH

I think he ran a decathlon early on at UCLA...I think around 7500?
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby dj » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:54 pm

kuha wrote:I'd agree that something like 7'2" was still an "elite" mark in those days, but not 7 feet even..whether that difference is enough to quibble about, I don't know.


In 1968 there 45 straddlers at 7-0 or better, plus Fosbury.

Whether "elite" can include 46 people in a year is up to your definition.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:01 pm

dj wrote:
kuha wrote:I'd agree that something like 7'2" was still an "elite" mark in those days, but not 7 feet even..whether that difference is enough to quibble about, I don't know.


In 1968 there 45 straddlers at 7-0 or better, plus Fosbury.

Whether "elite" can include 46 people in a year is up to your definition.


Only in Lake Wobegon...
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby kuha » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:59 pm

dj wrote:
kuha wrote:I'd agree that something like 7'2" was still an "elite" mark in those days, but not 7 feet even..whether that difference is enough to quibble about, I don't know.


In 1968 there 45 straddlers at 7-0 or better, plus Fosbury.

Whether "elite" can include 46 people in a year is up to your definition.


I'd say no. I stand by my feeling that 7'2"-ish represented a better definition of "elite" in that era.
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Re: Short 7' straddle high jumpers

Postby wamego relays champ » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:45 am

cask1 wrote:
no one wrote:I think kotinek had other superior marks ... 253.## jav,
25.5lj, and ?


14.3HH

I think he ran a decathlon early on at UCLA...I think around 7500?


At UCLA Kotinek's height was listed as 6-0.5.

After reaching 7-1 as a straddler, he converted to flop in his junior year.

His decathlon best of 7,298 was a 5th place mark as a freshman in the '72 NCAA Championships.

At UCLA he had an LJ mark of 25-5 and JT best of 253-8; not sure whether he bettered those after his collegiate career ended.

.
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