U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow


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U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:13 am

list now linked on the front page... life sure was easier when the IAAF opened the window at the start of the previous year.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:26 am

gh wrote:list now linked on the front page... life sure was easier when the IAAF opened the window at the start of the previous year.


Yeah, well, this will give runners a pretty good reason NOT to run 5:05 miles to win National Championships!! :P
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby Dave » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:14 am

This will focus people in the spring.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby ATK » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:04 am

Maybe I missed it, but was there a final decision made on the DL/WC wild card thing and who takes precedence, or if both go or whatever? Only case in the US is Richardson and Merrit in the 110's.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:30 am

Richardson
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby KDFINE » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:13 am

If an event has three or more A qualifiers, is there really any point is listing the B's? I mean a B is not going to get any of these athletes on the plane.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby mcgato » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:17 am

If a B finishes first, he or she is going. The US can take 1 B and 2 A's. Plus a wild card, if appropriate.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:20 am

aaronk wrote:
gh wrote:list now linked on the front page... life sure was easier when the IAAF opened the window at the start of the previous year.


Yeah, well, this will give runners a pretty good reason NOT to run 5:05 miles to win National Championships!! :P


It will have no effect at all; miles do not count for conversions. Besides, it is unlikely that running a distance race indoors is a place people are looking to nab a difficult qualifier.

Yes, B can go if they finish ahead of the third A; but cannot go as a wild card.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby aaronk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:36 am

26mi235 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
gh wrote:list now linked on the front page... life sure was easier when the IAAF opened the window at the start of the previous year.


Yeah, well, this will give runners a pretty good reason NOT to run 5:05 miles to win National Championships!! :P


It will have no effect at all; miles do not count for conversions. Besides, it is unlikely that running a distance race indoors is a place people are looking to nab a difficult qualifier.

Yes, B can go if they finish ahead of the third A; but cannot go as a wild card.


Right....should have clarified my statement a bit more.
I was talking about the OUTdoor USATF....and any other OUTdoor meets where mid-and long-distance runners JOG the first half of the race...and turn it into a 400 meter sprint!!

Or that women's 10K last year....where they dawdled for half the race...before finally remembering they were wanting to meet a standard!!

I only used that indoor mile as an example!!
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:32 pm

KDFINE wrote:If an event has three or more A qualifiers, is there really any point is listing the B's? I mean a B is not going to get any of these athletes on the plane.


As noted it is germane in some events. But in any case, methinks it's rather informative to see the nation's relative strength across the board. Additionally, it's always interesting to know who is stuck in chasing mode and who can afford to just sit back and train at leisure until the Nationals roll around.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby KDFINE » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:43 pm

Thanks mcgato and aaronk. I was under the misconception that a B winner would wind up being replaced by an A that he'd / she'd beaten in the trials.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:05 pm

gh wrote:
KDFINE wrote:If an event has three or more A qualifiers, is there really any point is listing the B's? I mean a B is not going to get any of these athletes on the plane.


As noted it is germane in some events. But in any case, methinks it's rather informative to see the nation's relative strength across the board. Additionally, it's always interesting to know who is stuck in chasing mode and who can afford to just sit back and train at leisure until the Nationals roll around.


And the interpretation is WRONG. An athlete with the B will go before an athlete with an A if they beat that athlete at the Trials. The exceptions are that "A" standard athletes will get promoted if there are multiple Bs, but then the top B will always go. It is only in the Olympics where you cannot have AAB (in the OG it is either B or A AA AAA, no AABs allowed, but they are allowed in the WCs).
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:19 am

updated version now on front page (not that a lot has happened over the last 2 weekends: weather willing in Austin and Stanford this weekend, that will change markedly)
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:57 am

The marathon list is ridiculous!!
The qualifying standard is way too easy!
(They should be maybe 2:12 or 2:14 for the men, and 2:32 or 2:35 for the women!)
So when an event reaches the limit of qualifiers....and I don't know what that is in the marathon....they should erase the ones who don't make that number.
If someone runs a marathon this spring, and gets a time that makes that "final" list, then she/he is placed on the list, and # 30 (or whatever) is taken off.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby tandfman » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:55 pm

26mi235 wrote:B can go if they finish ahead of the third A; but cannot go as a wild card.

Why not? A wild card doesn't need a standard.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby true northener » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:01 pm

In reviewing the update it appears to show Ben True as being an automatic qualifier for the 10K due to cross country placing. Is that right? :o
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:17 pm

aaronk wrote:The marathon list is ridiculous!!
The qualifying standard is way too easy!
(They should be maybe 2:12 or 2:14 for the men, and 2:32 or 2:35 for the women!)
So when an event reaches the limit of qualifiers....and I don't know what that is in the marathon....they should erase the ones who don't make that number.
If someone runs a marathon this spring, and gets a time that makes that "final" list, then she/he is placed on the list, and # 30 (or whatever) is taken off.

The World Championship marathon is usually a fairly weak field.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:02 pm

true northener wrote:In reviewing the update it appears to show Ben True as being an automatic qualifier for the 10K due to cross country placing. Is that right? :o


top 15 in the World XC = A-qualifier
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby HopStepJump » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:46 am

Looks like the WTJ might be the one event without a US entrant. Hard to see a full team in some of the other field events and the men's walks.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby Marlow » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:27 am

HopStepJump wrote:Looks like the wTJ might be the one event without a US entrant.

Hey now! Geubelle is only 2 cm shy of the B in an indoor jump this year. A little tailwind outdoors . . . voilà!
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby HopStepJump » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:18 am

Marlow wrote:
HopStepJump wrote:Looks like the wTJ might be the one event without a US entrant.

Hey now! Geubelle is only 2 cm shy of the B in an indoor jump this year. A little tailwind outdoors . . . voilà!


I wasn't aware of her mark. Advantage Marlow.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:22 am

where is the link for the a and b, I don't quite see it

please point it out for me, thanks in advance
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:34 am

so if I get this right, neely spence gets an a qual for the 10k in Moscow

does she still have to do des moisnes?? to get to go to moscow
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:07 pm

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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby tandfman » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:39 pm

az2004 wrote:so if I get this right, neely spence gets an a qual for the 10k in Moscow

does she still have to do des moisnes?? to get to go to moscow

Yes. Even the wild cards have to do Des Moines.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby Blues » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:08 pm

To have the qualifying rules closer at hand for reference purposes, here are links to the qualifying/selection rules for the World Champs in Moscow. First link is IAAF, second link is USATF.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... USMfLCj2pw


http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/ ... ction.aspx
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:31 pm

tandfman wrote:
az2004 wrote:so if I get this right, neely spence gets an a qual for the 10k in Moscow

does she still have to do des moisnes?? to get to go to moscow

Yes. Even the wild cards have to do Des Moines.


To clarify, Spence doesn't have a wild card. A wild card allows a nation to enter a 4th. What she has is a A-qualifier status without having run an A-time (the XC finish being considered equivalent). So not only does she have to run in Des Moines, she has to finish high enough in the race to make the team.

wild card people have a free pass from the IAAF to go "directly" to the Worlds, but the national federation reserves the right to control whether or not they get named. USATF rules are that you have to compete in the nationals to become the fourth person. But you don't have to make the final, and you don't even have to run your regular event. (so Trey Hardee simply needs to run the hurdles to make the decathlon team, for example)
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 18.99s » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:49 pm

Blues wrote:To have the qualifying rules closer at hand for reference purposes, here are links to the qualifying/selection rules for the World Champs in Moscow. First link is IAAF, second link is USATF.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... USMfLCj2pw


http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/ ... ction.aspx


Do you know the date range for the qualifying performances? I didn't see that in either document.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 18.99s » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:52 pm

Found it on another page: http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/ ... fying.aspx

This narrow date range they've been using over the past few years (since 2011?) is cruel. They should at least set the start of the window early enough to include the Worlds or Olympics of the prior year.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:54 pm

Not that the IAAF cares (or perhaps should it), but the current dating system absolutely screws the U.S. people more than anyone else. Given the ebb & flow of the domestic season. (not to mention Americans having to be in peak shape in June, unlike others who have until July)

(the IAAF system aside, one wonders when USATF will wake up and realize that the nationals need to be held later?)
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 18.99s » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:25 am

I see the Olympics qualifying period started in May of the previous year, so that included the previous Worlds and national trials (for countries that have one). What's the deal with narrowing it to October for 2011 and 2013? That effectively narrows the window down to May-July of the same year for events that aren't done indoors, unless you're in Australia, NZ or South Africa.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby az2004 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:37 am

gh wrote:
tandfman wrote:
az2004 wrote:so if I get this right, neely spence gets an a qual for the 10k in Moscow

does she still have to do des moisnes?? to get to go to moscow

Yes. Even the wild cards have to do Des Moines.


To clarify, Spence doesn't have a wild card. A wild card allows a nation to enter a 4th. What she has is a A-qualifier status without having run an A-time (the XC finish being considered equivalent). So not only does she have to run in Des Moines, she has to finish high enough in the race to make the team.

wild card people have a free pass from the IAAF to go "directly" to the Worlds, but the national federation reserves the right to control whether or not they get named. USATF rules are that you have to compete in the nationals to become the fourth person. But you don't have to make the final, and you don't even have to run your regular event. (so Trey Hardee simply needs to run the hurdles to make the decathlon team, for example)


hastings bawcon uhl have a standard, so I presume spence needs to beat those 3 in the 10 k in des moines to claim her A option in the 10k

otherwise run the 5k and get the a there

this is getting too confusing for me
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:35 am

After tomorrow night at Stanford I'm sure she'll have even more people she needs to beat in Des Moines
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby az2004 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:25 am

and when the10k gets run in des moines in june, than should be a tough race

I wonder how this will play out add in the 5k to the mix
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby tandfman » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:06 pm

18.99s wrote:I see the Olympics qualifying period started in May of the previous year, so that included the previous Worlds and national trials (for countries that have one). What's the deal with narrowing it to October for 2011 and 2013? That effectively narrows the window down to May-July of the same year for events that aren't done indoors, unless you're in Australia, NZ or South Africa.

The IOC's entry deadline for the 2012 Olympics was in early July, significantly earlier than the final deadlines for the '11 and '13 World Championships.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:43 am

which is perfectly wonderful if your nationals runs up against the far end of the deadline. The U.S. meet does not, and U.S. athletes (and a few others) are at a decided disadvantage to their European counterparts. For the great majority of Americans, the window now closes in the middle of June (or, more practically, early June). And just wasn't open long enough.
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:01 pm

latest lists now posted to front page (still not a lot to write home about)
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:52 pm

tandfman wrote:
26mi235 wrote:B can go if they finish ahead of the third A; but cannot go as a wild card.

Why not? A wild card doesn't need a standard.


The term was probably wrong, but they used something like that for the alternate. That is, if I remember correctly, they will not designate an alternate that only has the "B".
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Re: U.S. A/B qualifiers for Moscow

Postby gh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:53 am

latest list now posted to front page
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