Something going on at Texas?


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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 am

26mi235 wrote:The timing is part of the picture here. My guess is there that she had a few strong enemies and that they decided this was the time to stop her rather than enshrine her and found a way to transform rumors in action, and given the climate change since Penn State (but also, the climate has been progressively changing in that direction from when I started teaching in the early '80s).


Maybe. There might also be at least a slim chance that in the absence of a conspiracy, a former athlete from that 2002 team returned after quite a while to be coached by Bev recently, and that maybe something happened during their latest coach-athlete association that made the athlete choose to reveal details of the past relationship, or threaten to go public. Stranger things have happened, so I'm not ready to accept the conspiracy theory as having the highest probability of explaining the situation just yet, although I won't rule it out either.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:46 am

A lot of folks have brought up the timing of this issue, but don't forget that Jerry Sandusky's Penn State crimes were also nearly ten years old but that didn't save the University from having the hammer dropped on them.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:30 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:A lot of folks have brought up the timing of this issue, but don't forget that Jerry Sandusky's Penn State crimes were also nearly ten years old but that didn't save the University from having the hammer dropped on them.


I don't think the NCAA would drop the hammer on UT though, unless it turns out that the coach also committed crimes that were covered up. In comparing this to Penn State, whether or not higher officials were previously aware and covered things up at the time could be one ace in the hole that Coach Kearney could be holding since it could further damage the institution's reputation and put them more at risk of possible civil suits by the athlete (or athletes) involved. If there's an ugly lawsuit between Coach Kearney and UT, I wonder if more former and present UT women's track and field athletes and staff would tend to feel more loyalty to their University and possibly to the athlete involved, or to their coach if they have to be involved. Hopefully it won't come to that.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:51 pm

I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:06 pm

polevaultpower wrote:I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?

Prior to the Jerry Sandusky scandal, I had never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for criminal actions at all unless it violated NCAA bylaws. Even when there was a murder and a coverup involving Baylor basketball players, the NCAA let the criminal justice system handle it.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:54 pm

polevaultpower wrote:I've never heard of the NCAA punishing a school for a non-criminal relationship between an athlete and a coach?

It's not criminal, but it's surely unethical.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:21 am

Blues wrote:a former athlete from that 2002 team returned after quite a while to be coached by Bev recently, and that maybe something happened during their latest coach-athlete association that made the athlete choose to reveal details of the past relationship, or threaten to go public.


You must have contacts. That is the exact story that is being passed around locally.

There's also a conspiracy theory like you mentioned but the above is most likely what happened.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:16 am

Original post has been deleted to honor the integrity of the board. :oops:
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Blues » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:56 pm

No specific accusations had been made, but post deleted by author in response to gh's post below.
Last edited by Blues on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:14 pm

At this point let me interject that these are real people with real feelings we're talking about here, and speculation on specifics on who the person might be should stop at this level. Thanks for understanding.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 pm

gh wrote:At this point let me interject that these are real people with real feelings we're talking about here, and speculation on specifics on who the person might be should stop at this level. Thanks for understanding.

Sorry gh. :oops: I've followed blues' lead and erased my error.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:44 pm

thanks for erring on the side of caution, but there was no need to yank your originals. If I'd objected to their presence I would simply have excised them myself. I merely said that the investigative trail should end at that point.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:00 am

Rose Brimmer assumes position as interim head coach.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/sports/ ... terim-head
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby TxHottrack » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:23 pm

guru wrote:Rose Brimmer assumes position as interim head coach.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/sports/ ... terim-head



Coach Brimmer Rose is an excellent coach. She is a pretty good recruiter as well. I hope Texas eventually hires her as the permanent T&F head coach.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Peter Michaelson » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:53 pm

Just wondering, if a coach has a relationship with an athlete and later they get married, does that make the original relationship OK?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:50 am

Another Texas coach (football) confesses:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1512 ... th-student

However, in this case it's not specified whether the student was an athlete, and the university has already disciplined him years ago.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:14 am

18.99s wrote:Another Texas coach (football) confesses:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1512 ... th-student

However, in this case it's not specified whether the student was an athlete, and the university has already disciplined him years ago.



It was a student, and though the two situations are not identical, it makes you wonder how things would have been handled with Kearney had she not voluntarily resigned.

That said, Applewhite far from out of thw woods. From ESPN -

While Dodds and Applewhite both said in their statements that the matter had been dealt with, Texas has called a special meeting of the board of regents for Sunday at 1:45 p.m. ET.

"We are first and foremost concerned with the safety, health and well-being of our students on all 15 UT campuses and wherever they travel under the auspices of our institutions," the board said in a statement. "As a result, it was with great disappointment and sadness that we learned a short time ago about the reprimand given in February of 2009 to one of the assistant football coaches employed by UT Austin for inappropriate conduct during the football team's trip to the Fiesta Bowl in January 2009."

The agenda for the Sunday meeting states there will be a personnel matters discussion, as well as a "discussion regarding legal issues concerning individual athletic personnel" and a "discussion regarding legal issues related to inappropriate relations between employees and students."
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:20 am

guru wrote:It was a student, ...


Did you mean "non-athlete"? It's well established that the individual was a student.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:34 am

I dont think it matters if she was an athlete or not. Obviously the woman wasn't a football player under Applewhite's purview, while Kearney was involved with an athlete she coached(an important, and key, distinction).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:45 pm

guru wrote:I dont think it matters if she was an athlete or not.


I think it matters. A college athlete (especially one on a scholarship) is much more vulnerable to coercion and authoritative influence by a coach than a non-athlete student would be, even if that coach is of a different sport. There's still more influence compared to students who don't fall under the jurisdiction of the athletic department in any way.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Pego » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:56 pm

guru wrote:I dont think it matters if she was an athlete or not. Obviously the woman wasn't a football player under Applewhite's purview, while Kearney was involved with an athlete she coached(an important, and key, distinction).


Are you sure "a woman" was specified? I looked for it, but could not see any gender reference.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby guru » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:13 pm

Pego wrote:
guru wrote:I dont think it matters if she was an athlete or not. Obviously the woman wasn't a football player under Applewhite's purview, while Kearney was involved with an athlete she coached(an important, and key, distinction).


Are you sure "a woman" was specified? I looked for it, but could not see any gender reference.



It's a fair assumption, considering Applewhite is married. Regardless, it's not a football player(if it was, I guarantee you someone would have dug this up and put it out a long time ago).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Coachtheboyd » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:19 pm

Most university policies state that one cannot have a relationship with someone in which they have power over. As in coach/athlete, professor/student, or advisor/advised etc..
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 18.99s » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Coachtheboyd wrote:Most university policies state that one cannot have a relationship with someone in which they have power over. As in coach/athlete, professor/student, or advisor/advised etc..


Yes, but with this football coach it was apparently a nonathlete student, so that power relationship just wasn't there. This guy wasn't a megacoach with influence outside of the athletic department, like Joe Paterno. As long as he reported it in a timely manner and the student was an adult and not an athlete or employee of the athletic department, the university should stay out of it and leave them alone.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:01 pm

Pego wrote:Are you sure "a woman" was specified? I looked for it, but could not see any gender reference.


I'm sure her name and pic will be plastered everywhere by tomorrow. She was a student athletic trainer with the football team and is currently a trainer at another college now.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:46 am

Story on the Headlines: " The Kearney Case: Reckoning For Texas Athletics?" has an indication where things might be going. Her team is probably looking at all of the cases the have come up and maybe even digging up new ones, that involved different choices being made. There was also some indication that political dimensions might make it hard for UT to make a big settlement, although that is not the main point.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:54 am

more here on what her law team dug up

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2013/3 ... ite-affair
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:15 am

Well, the paper files seem incomplete, although the degree is unclear. If they did a legal request and the school is not fully forthcoming, it would likely come back to haunt them if the incomplete nature of the search on UT's side is identified.

Further, the position of Kearney's team is that the search probably applies to UT-Austin and there are a lot of faculty and staff, and something is likely to arise there.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:09 pm

BIG difference between a coach and a member of the athletics support staff and a coach and one of their athletes.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:19 pm

The much broader class of faculty and students opens much greater possibility of cases being treated differentially. Those cases would be more 'similar'. However, the controlling element in the rules is the supervisor/underling not primarily that the person is a student. And legal distinctions are likely to matter here.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:40 pm

I still don't understand why Kearney would resign if she planned on fighting this. She should have forced Texas to fire her. How can she argue wrongful termination when she wasn't terminated?
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:57 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I still don't understand why Kearney would resign if she planned on fighting this. She should have forced Texas to fire her. How can she argue wrongful termination when she wasn't terminated?


Not sure that it makes a dime's worth of difference for some elements. Too bad Law Dude is not here very often any more.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:47 am

Word is she offered to settle for $3M and UT said bring it on. $3M is nothing to them so she must really not have a case if they're not willing to make her go away for that amount of money.

I'm sure dozens upon dozens of coaches and faculty have had relationships with students but she's the only one that did it with a direct report or athlete and broke NCAA rules by providing other benefits (car, rent, etc.).
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:17 am

There seemed to be a hint that they might be constrained on money for a settlement and there was a sense that an actual lawsuit and penalty would be a required expenditure.

Civil cases are a lot easier than criminal cases and if UT wants to put their faith in a jury outcome before even knowing what the rules of the game will be, they would seem to taking a risk. Yes, the implication of this is that there might not be very much 'there' there. On the other hand, losing a lawsuit will probably look worse than making a settlement. It might be concerns about other cases being filed in the future that drives this decision but if it goes wrong with a trial, then the school is likely to worse off all around.

There is a tradeoff of certainty of a problem and a cost if they settle with moderate probability of losing and having it cost more. The decision maker might be someone where those potential future cost will be on someone else's watch and are too heavily discounted. They might want to talk to the ex-Penn State AD....
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby gh » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:28 pm

Discimination lawsuit has been filed. See story on front page.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:57 pm

Howard said he and Kearney know of “in excess of 10” similar relationships between UT staffers and subordinates, including but not limited to the athletic department. When Kearney files a lawsuit against UT -- which she can do 180 days after Tuesday's filing date -- those staffers will be subpoenaed, Howard said.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/article/Kearney-files-discrimination-suit-against-UT-4360145.php#ixzz2Nl3iQyYF
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Cooter Brown » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:36 pm

Here's her filed complaint. If her best argument is that she was discriminated against in salary, she's got nothing. She was the 3rd highest paid track coach in the country and was about to receive a 50% raise when the affair was made public.

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/ke ... inv/nW28S/
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Tuariki » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:Here's her filed complaint. If her best argument is that she was discriminated against in salary, she's got nothing. She was the 3rd highest paid track coach in the country and was about to receive a 50% raise when the affair was made public.

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/ke ... inv/nW28S/

it will be interesting to see how this develops. There will likely be a whole lot of losers if she decides to make public every "illicit" relationship,real or imagined, she suspects happened at UT while she was there. I imagine the divorce lawyers in Austin are all rubbing their hands with glee at the income prospects that may fall out from this case.

I wonder how she can keep a straight face when she claims remuneration discrimination.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Mighty Favog » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:35 am

The bizarre thing is that today's news reports indicate she cites "unwritten rules" requiring employees to report relationships with students, but previous news stories indicated such a rule was instituted in 2001 (a year before the relationship began) and that it was, in fact, written.

I'm far from an expert in all of this, but it looks to me like she's gone all-in while holding a pair of sevens.
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Re: Something going on at Texas?

Postby Jacksf » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:24 am

I think this really is a business decision.
The powers that be at Univ. of Texas decided that they no longer wanted her for whatever reason, i.e., her salary is too high, they just don't like her, or some combination of these and other reasons.
THEN they decided to find a way to get rid of her.
Companies do this regularly.
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