Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs


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Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby knockout » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:59 am

Re-tests pull up several failures:

Nadzeya Ostapchuk
Ivan Tsikhan
Olga Kuzenkova
Tatyana Kotova
Vadim Devyatovskiy


Andrei Mikhnevich (non medallist)
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby knockout » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:11 am

I believe this is Tsikhans third failed test,

Vadim Devyatovskiy's Third failed test,

Ostapchuk's second failed test

Olga Kuzenkova's second failed test
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby pakillo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:33 am

What's next? Privalova was positive in 1995? Lewis was positive in 1988? Boring! 8-)

And really funny Gatlin wasn't positive at Helsinki 2005 :lol:
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Marlow » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:56 am

I guess the only surprise is they didn't catch LOTS more.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby lapsus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:32 am

pakillo wrote:What's next? Privalova was positive in 1995? Lewis was positive in 1988? Boring! 8-)

And really funny Gatlin wasn't positive at Helsinki 2005 :lol:

What's next? Well, in about one year there will probably be revealed to be several medallists with positive tests from 2006 European Championships.

Based on what happened this and last year, I'll make a more specific guess: Karjalainen will be declared the new 2006 hammer throw European Champion, and there will be some rearranged medals in women's field events. I think I better not even say what I think might happen with women's running events.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby gh » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:43 am

lapsus wrote:....
What's next? Well, in about one year there will probably be revealed to be several medallists with positive tests from 2006 European Championships. ....


I believe that will depend on the EAA having reserved samples and asked for retest, which is what IAAF did w/ Helsinki. Don't think IAAF has anything to do with Euro Champs meets.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby lapsus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:46 am

gh wrote:
lapsus wrote:....
What's next? Well, in about one year there will probably be revealed to be several medallists with positive tests from 2006 European Championships. ....


I believe that will depend on the EAA having reserved samples and asked for retest, which is what IAAF did w/ Helsinki. Don't think IAAF has anything to do with Euro Champs meets.

Then there will be a two year break before Osaka results are reanalyzed, I guess.

And who knows what happens then? Que CERA, CERA
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby mcgato » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:19 am

Somewhere down the line someone will probably have a record of testing positive 6 or 7 times.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby mump boy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:21 am

pakillo wrote:What's next? Privalova was positive in 1995? Lewis was positive in 1988? Boring! 8-)

And really funny Gatlin wasn't positive at Helsinki 2005 :lol:


It doesn't necessarily mean anything of the sort.

I think we're all unsure of exactly how this re testing procedure is working, are they re testing everything ? are they targeting specific events or countries ? do the new tests only work on certain substances etc etc etc

We've only seen positives from heavy throwers so i would imagine the retesting is specific to substances that are more pervasive in those events

It tell us nothing about other events or individuals
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Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:26 am

Are the rumours coming out of Belarus true that the colossus of integrity of the Belarus Olympic movement, that paragon of ethics and virtue, President Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko, established the Belarus School of Cooking where students such as Alexander Yefimov learned the fine art of Belarus' famed international style of "herbal' sprinkling.

It is just unconscionable that innocent athletes like that young man Noddy Upchuck has been forced to endure the pain and humiliation after unknowingly and unwittingly ingesting the culinary delights of Alexander Yefimov's flavour enhancing of meals apparently for the past 8 years.

It appears that these flavour enhancing chefs have been running amok for years in Belarus.

And is it true that the Belarus Cooking School kitchen also has a double life as the laboratory for the Belarus drug testing facility?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:39 am

mump boy wrote:It tell us nothing about other events or individuals


It tell YOU nothing about other events or individuals. It may very well tell them a lot more than you think because they have the previous tests and some indication where things were a bit iffy. It also tells you what sorts of substances that they can detect at lower levels. Did they say how many other athletes have had their samples retested?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Tuariki » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:46 am

It tells us a lot about Belarus
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby pakillo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:42 pm

Save your talks on Lukashenko for some other place, really.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby eldanielfire » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:00 pm

Is this about doping or porn?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby mump boy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:31 pm

26mi235 wrote:
mump boy wrote:It tell us nothing about other events or individuals


Did they say how many other athletes have had their samples retested?


I don't think we know anything about the testing procedure, who they've tested, what for etc etc etc
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:13 pm

pakillo wrote:Save your talks on Lukashenko for some other place, really.

The historical record of your postings on this forum make it quite clear you are a great supporter and defender of Ostapchuk and all the other druggies from Belarus.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:33 pm

eldanielfire wrote:Is this about doping or porn?

Could be both, I guess. Mind you in the case of Ostapchuk one might get a surprise handful which would then put a different slant on the porn aspect.

The video of the Belorussian official press conference explains how the London 2012 positive for Ostapchuk was all due to the actions of Alexander Yefimov who acted all by himself. And that poor, poor Ostapchuk was a victim who had nothing to do with the metenolene "salt and pepper" that Yefimov confessed to sprinkling on her food. And now we know someone has probably been sprinkling Ostapchuk's food for the past 8 years at least.

Clearly, the whole Belarussian PED situation is state sponsored. But I very much doubt the IOC or IAAF will do anything about. IMO all athletes from that country should be banned for a period.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby pakillo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:28 pm

Tuariki wrote:
pakillo wrote:Save your talks on Lukashenko for some other place, really.

The historical record of your postings on this forum make it quite clear you are a great supporter and defender of Ostapchuk and all the other druggies from Belarus.

No, but the way you are obsessed with Ostapchuk makes me wanna poop.
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Worst day ever for Throwers

Postby GMH454 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Reposting this from Dan John's board -right now my head hurts from thinking this thing through

if you have not already heard, they retested the 2005 WC results. Both hammer champs are now out. Mens Hammer silver goes, mens shot third goes,Womens shot winner goes. All athletes Belarus or Russian.



BUT, this is the second year of retesting. Only a couple got picked up last year, but we now have some very strange issues.

Micknevich, goes. It is his second, so he should have got a life ban back in 2005. Does that now mean Duncan Armstrong who was robbed of a bronze by a bad offical in 2008 now gets it. For the womens shot in 2005. With Ostacheat now out , Kryvelova moves up,... or does she, because she was bounced in 2004 (last year) so now does Klienart get it, and of course Ostacheat sits in 3rd now on the 2004 OG results lists

And if Tikhon and Devatovsky both fail their next one, rechecked from 2006 , will that mean not only the Euro medals get redistributed, but Koji nows gets the 2008 OG gold (they both failed the A test in 2008 but the B tests somehow disappeared - or something).Or as their suspension would have been for 2 years that would not count as they should not have been allowed to compete in 2006, so on to the retest of 2007 we go, and did Dev already get time in teh naughty corner prior to 2005

and Kozmus now wins the 2007 Worlds, everyone moves up and Pars gets a Bronze to go with the 2008 medal he now gets,

and surely now that Ostacheat has failed 2005 she will fail again, and that should be life, so all her medals in every champ since then should be redistributed.

we are going to see massive revisions of the results, a year by years change,

did they keep the urine for all finalists for 8 years, I hope so, I would hate to think one cheater get replaced with another - what would be the point

Finally, is Kogi now the greatest hammer thrower of all time, I now think he is by far the greatest since 2000 but given the testing standards back in the 80s, maybe Koji is King..

and if Michnevich failed in 2005 does anyone seriously think he was clean in 2003 when he beat Nellie and won (He sat out 2 years prior to 2003)

Sorry if this is a bit scambled, but this maybe our worst ever day, because we now get a glimpse of what will come.


what a mess !!!!!!!!!!!!

and now I go to watch what may be the greatest female thrower of all time despite what the lists say, (Val our T & F athlete of the year - who has been competing with one hand tied behind her back)

Not HAPPY Jan ....
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:14 pm

You do not, but they do, and maybe they are doing it a little more intelligently than you imply.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:16 pm

The sooner she and all the other Belorussian druggies are banned for life and out of TnF the better. The way things are going there must be every chance that Ostapchuk will be found guilty of taking PEDs every year through to 2019 as the 8 year test catches up with her. We don't need to go to 2020 as she has already been done for 2012.

And hopefully she will be stripped of all medals from 2005 onwards.

And I am happy to be known as being obsessed with celebrating the demise of Ostapchuk. As Valerie Adams is the only New Zealand victim of the recently identified cheats I agree with you that I have focused on Ostapchuk. However, I also celebrate for the likes of Dylan Armstrong, Adam Nelson and all the others who have been victims of the state organised cheating from Belarus.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby andyjgt » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:30 am

Karjalainen should be declared 2006 champ even if Tikhon passes the test from 2006, since he should be 'serving' (in terms of results being struck off) a 2-year ban from his failed test in 2004 and Gothenburg was less than 2 years after Athens.

(Not sure whether his failed test in '05 should result in a life ban since he should have been serving a ban then and not been at those champs.)

BTW, Murofushi won't be declared '08 OG champ as a result of this - Kozmus won gold, not Tikhon or Devyatovskiy (who should have ALL his results from '05 onwards scrapped, as should A Mikhnevich, as you say. Interesting that his wife passed the tests btw).
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Tuariki » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:55 am

Take Ostapchuck out of the equation and Val Adams win streak is 94
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:41 pm

mump boy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
mump boy wrote:It tell us nothing about other events or individuals


Did they say how many other athletes have had their samples retested?


I don't think we know anything about the testing procedure, who they've tested, what for etc etc etc


Hundreds of tests indicates that they did not take just a few disciplines. Presumably they concentrated on the medal winners, so many if not most were probably re-tested.

Davies confirmed that "hundreds" of re-tests had been carried out on urine samples provided at the championships which had been frozen and stored. The operation was deliberately undertaken just within the eight-year statute of limitations for drug violations laid down by the World Anti-Doping Code.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/blogs/1013248-mike-rowbottom-frozen-but-not-forgotten-the-samples-that-came-back-to-bite
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:37 pm

I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby GMH454 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:32 am

I feel worse for all the people robbed, guys like Esser who never got to stand on the Podium. Val whose own enormous archievements were always minimised by the precence of Ostacheat.

Val won some Championships by massive margins, again and again

and in 2016 when the last Belurussian goes, the W Hammer champ, then Moreno would have won 3 worlds and one OG.

also what happens when the retest Lysenko, money is she will fail again, it just reverberates around,
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby iain » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:47 am

JumboElliott wrote:I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.


I agree. It's all too easy for someone (a coach etc) to just slip some 'vitamins' or a 'supplement' into to their food.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby John G » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:24 am

iain wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.


I agree. It's all too easy for someone (a coach etc) to just slip some 'vitamins' or a 'supplement' into to their food.
I know a former International canoeist who went on a training camp with another country in the late 90s. He said his recovery after sessions and overall performance was at a level he'd never experienced before and was convinced something was being put in their food or drink.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Blues » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:16 am

mump boy wrote:
pakillo wrote:What's next? Privalova was positive in 1995? Lewis was positive in 1988? Boring! 8-)

And really funny Gatlin wasn't positive at Helsinki 2005 :lol:


It doesn't necessarily mean anything of the sort.

I think we're all unsure of exactly how this re testing procedure is working, are they re testing everything ? are they targeting specific events or countries ? do the new tests only work on certain substances etc etc etc

We've only seen positives from heavy throwers so i would imagine the retesting is specific to substances that are more pervasive in those events

It tell us nothing about other events or individuals


For the most part, only specific banned substances that have become easier to detect (before the statute of limitations is up) have a chance of being detected from a retest. That means that there are still various PEDS that won't be able to be detected during retesting. And we also have to keep in mind that certain PEDS can provide significant performance enhancement during training that persists during later competitions, but as long as the athlete discontinues the drug far enough in advance of the competition it won't be in their systems during the in-competition testing. That means that it's impossible for all cheaters to be caught by in competition testing, whether it be at the time of competition or after the fact. And any cheaters who knew about micro dosing of certain PEDs back in 2005 probably won't be caught by retesting of in-competition samples, just like few if any will be caught today, with the possible exception of the freak occurrences where there's an extremely rare perfectly timed random out of competition test...

I like the idea of retesting old samples though, since athletes who choose to cheat have no guarantee that their current choice of PEDs won't be able to be better detected in the future...
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby Tuariki » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:36 am

iain wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.


I agree. It's all too easy for someone (a coach etc) to just slip some 'vitamins' or a 'supplement' into to their food.

Poor Ostapchuk, poor Tikhon, poor Vikhnevich. It is terrible that these poor victims are being picked on, year after year.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:49 am

John G wrote:
iain wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.


I agree. It's all too easy for someone (a coach etc) to just slip some 'vitamins' or a 'supplement' into to their food.
I know a former International canoeist who went on a training camp with another country in the late 90s. He said his recovery after sessions and overall performance was at a level he'd never experienced before and was convinced something was being put in their food or drink.

Or how about the major cycling teams?
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby pakillo » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:35 am

JumboElliott wrote:
John G wrote:
iain wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I feel bad for them, much like the East Germans in the 70s and 80s. It doesn't sound like they were given much of a choice.


I agree. It's all too easy for someone (a coach etc) to just slip some 'vitamins' or a 'supplement' into to their food.
I know a former International canoeist who went on a training camp with another country in the late 90s. He said his recovery after sessions and overall performance was at a level he'd never experienced before and was convinced something was being put in their food or drink.

Or how about the major cycling teams?

If Belarus had enormous number of cyclists busted some people like Tuariki would call it a state sponsored doping but sure not in other cases.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby leoesharkey » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:58 pm

Re Ostapchuk Metenolone is only primo, a relatively mild and weak drug used in a stack with other drugs to enhance their properties, no doubt there would have been two injectables like testosterone enanthate and Decca durabolin , with heavy orals like dianabol or anadrol and the primo would have been used to retain strength after she went off the big cycle. Terrible on the endrocrin system of a young woman of child bearing age, no doubt in Belarus your choices are limited to nil. :cry:
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby kamikaze7 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:31 am

I have 2 questions
1. Do they still get to keep their prize money ? If so, where is the deterrent ?
IMO, IAAF should get each athlete to sign a document stating that they will forfeit earnings if they test positive

2. Why does it take 8 years to retest ?
Is the ability to detect doping really 8 years behind ?
Most athletes will have retired after 8 years and thus this is of no consequence.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:13 am

kamikaze7 wrote:I have 2 questions
1. Do they still get to keep their prize money ? If so, where is the deterrent ?
IMO, IAAF should get each athlete to sign a document stating that they will forfeit earnings if they test positive

2. Why does it take 8 years to retest ?
Is the ability to detect doping really 8 years behind ?
Most athletes will have retired after 8 years and thus this is of no consequence.


1. I think dope cheats have to pay back prize money. However I believe World Championships and Olympic games don't pay out prize money. Of course the increased attention and sponsorship will be greater than any single payout and I don't know if sponsorship deals write in clauses for things like that.

2. 8 years is the WADA stated maximum time to retest before giving up.I'm sure they retets random samples at other times or if something is reported. It doesn't take 8 years but just before the 8 years is up they retest with the latest techniques and tests to check nothing was missed before you aren't allowed to retest at all.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby John G » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:13 am

eldanielfire wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:I have 2 questions
1. Do they still get to keep their prize money ? If so, where is the deterrent ?
IMO, IAAF should get each athlete to sign a document stating that they will forfeit earnings if they test positive

2. Why does it take 8 years to retest ?
Is the ability to detect doping really 8 years behind ?
Most athletes will have retired after 8 years and thus this is of no consequence.


1. I think dope cheats have to pay back prize money. However I believe World Championships and Olympic games don't pay out prize money. Of course the increased attention and sponsorship will be greater than any single payout and I don't know if sponsorship deals write in clauses for things like that.

2. 8 years is the WADA stated maximum time to retest before giving up.I'm sure they retets random samples at other times or if something is reported. It doesn't take 8 years but just before the 8 years is up they retest with the latest techniques and tests to check nothing was missed before you aren't allowed to retest at all.


[Deleted - like an idiot I was just repeating Eldaniefire's last point].
Last edited by John G on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has Belarus Cooking School admitted giult?

Postby Daisy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:14 am

pakillo wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
pakillo wrote:Save your talks on Lukashenko for some other place, really.

The historical record of your postings on this forum make it quite clear you are a great supporter and defender of Ostapchuk and all the other druggies from Belarus.

No, but the way you are obsessed with Ostapchuk makes me wanna poop.

Given she is stealing the limelight from a NZ'er, I'm not surprised he would follow her story.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby br » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:05 am

eldanielfire wrote:1. I think dope cheats have to pay back prize money. However I believe World Championships and Olympic games don't pay out prize money. Of course the increased attention and sponsorship will be greater than any single payout and I don't know if sponsorship deals write in clauses for things like that.


World Championships have prize money.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/tdk-and-t ... 0000-world

Individual Events

Winner: US$ 60,000; Silver Medallist: US$ 30,000; Bronze medallist: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 15,000; fifth place: US$ 10,000; sixth place: US$ 6,000; seventh place: US$ 5,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000

Relays

Winners: US$ 80,000; Silver Medallists: US$ 40,000; Bronze Medallists: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 16,000; fifth place: US$ 12,000; sixth place: US$ 8,000; seventh place: US$ 6,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:17 am

I understand that the testing will be most successful technically if they wait almost eight years. However, is the testing 'destructive, so that if they test several years later they cannot also test at eight years? The obvious element is that it will be more of a deterrent and will help the defrauded athletes more if done sooner.
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Re: Five medallists positive tests from 2005 World champs

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:40 pm

br wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:1. I think dope cheats have to pay back prize money. However I believe World Championships and Olympic games don't pay out prize money. Of course the increased attention and sponsorship will be greater than any single payout and I don't know if sponsorship deals write in clauses for things like that.


World Championships have prize money.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/tdk-and-t ... 0000-world

Individual Events

Winner: US$ 60,000; Silver Medallist: US$ 30,000; Bronze medallist: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 15,000; fifth place: US$ 10,000; sixth place: US$ 6,000; seventh place: US$ 5,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000

Relays

Winners: US$ 80,000; Silver Medallists: US$ 40,000; Bronze Medallists: US$ 20,000; fourth place: US$ 16,000; fifth place: US$ 12,000; sixth place: US$ 8,000; seventh place: US$ 6,000; eighth place: US$ 4,000


Ah cheers for that, I didn't know, it's just the Olympics that don't have a winner. I would guess that it is still the attention and exposure to winners and medalists that earn them the big case from sponsors.
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