Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????


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Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Jnathletics » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:49 am

http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/sports/2013/03/05/olympic-pole-vaulter-has-meltdown-after-insane-vault-gets-dq%E2%80%99d-video/

Did anyone else see this? Can't tell if he did any vualtizing? I guess tecnically it didn't stay on the peg, but staying on the frame piece is much harder to do. It did stay up though. Anyone else disagree with the ruling of a miss?
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:15 am

IMO he got a bad deal... and one that possibly can be reversed. He definitely did not touch the bar, and the bar did not "fall." But what EXACTLY does the rulebook say about "staying on the pegs" vs. "falling" ?!

edit to add: see my subsequent comment farther down.
Last edited by dukehjsteve on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:16 am

i currently have the pv final on

http://eurovision.digotel.com/ea/index.html it's in english i want to hear what the annucers say when the 6.07 is attempted

when he had won at 6.01 i syopped watching

go doaw to day 3 and sellect pv final

i dont know the rule about the peg issue
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:20 am

I think the rule is to stay on the peg, not if the pole drops. He was unlucky but the red flag was technically correct.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby LopenUupunut » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:23 am

eldanielfire wrote:I think the rule is to stay on the peg, not if the pole drops. He was unlucky but the red flag was technically correct.
Yup. IAAF Rule 183.2(a) says:
An athlete fails if after the vault, the bar does not remain on both pegs because of
the action of an athlete whilst vaulting.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:26 am

It absolutely is a miss. If you wanted to have people buy your equipment and it was ruled a 'make' then you could try to put flat surfaces around to catch the bar. I have had it happen twice, I think.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:36 am

I amend my former comment. Rule is clear. However, the standards should be constructed in such a way that what happened, cannot happen.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:54 am

good clarification from thosein the know

that's why they have a rulebook

still the object is to get a gold and i think he has it
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Marlow » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:11 am

dukehjsteve wrote:the standards should be constructed in such a way that what happened, cannot happen.

Even vaulters admit it's a good rule. If it doesn't stay on the same peg it started on, then you're just lucky, not good. There's no way standards could be made where it 'cannot' happen. If nothing else, there's other pegs to land on.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:08 pm

i got an email from a friend who is a usatf certified pv judge and he wrote

Here is the IAAF rule that applies here I’m guessing. If you watch the whole video, one side of the bar comes off its peg and settles on top of the standard. Too bad…



An athlete fails if:

(a) after the vault, the bar does not remain on both pegs because of

the action of an athlete whilst vaulting;
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:18 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:I amend my former comment. Rule is clear. However, the standards should be constructed in such a way that what happened, cannot happen.


You couldn't make it like a HJ standard since you'd never keep a bar up in a mild wind but maybe you could round the top of the standard so that there's no flat spot for the bar to land on.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:IMO he got a bad deal... and one that possibly can be reversed. He definitely did not touch the bar, and the bar did not "fall." But what EXACTLY does the rulebook say about "staying on the pegs" vs. "falling" ?!

edit to add: see my subsequent comment farther down.


I think he was unlucky, he did not get a bad deal. The rule is the rule. I was a bit surprised to see him sobbing after the ruling. I don't quite understand that. Though I guess if he had made it he would have been #2 an the all-time performer lists, indoors and out. I hope he gets it this year.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Pego » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:02 pm

IAAF wrote:An athlete fails if after the vault, the bar does not remain on both pegs because of
the action of an athlete whilst vaulting.


Does anybody say "whilst" any longer?
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby marknhj » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:20 pm

Pego wrote:Does anybody say "whilst" any longer?


Yes, proper English speakers and writers do!

It was a fair call although very unlucky. He had loads of height and didn't hit it very hard, so with good conditions outdoors I think he can duplicate that jump or even go higher.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby polevaultpower » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:56 pm

It was a good call by the officials. Unlucky for Lavillenie. He is clearly capable of clearing that height, he barely brushed the bar. I look forward to his continued improvements.

Happens every year in some major meet, I've been surprised by how many knowledgable track fans weren't familiar with the rule.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:51 pm

polevaultpower wrote:Happens every year in some major meet, I've been surprised by how many knowledgable track fans weren't familiar with the rule.


"You mean it doesn't count if they get out of the pit before the bar falls?"
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Marlow » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:00 pm

Oooooh, I just watched the video again and realized that if the peg the bar was on was an intermediate peg (where there are ones above and below) the bar most probably would have come back down on the right peg after bouncing up! We wuz robbed!!!
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:10 pm

Marlow wrote:Oooooh, I just watched the video again and realized that if the peg the bar was on was an intermediate peg (where there are ones above and below) the bar most probably would have come back down on the right peg after bouncing up! We wuz robbed!!!


Isn't there also a rule that the top peg must be used in competition?
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:48 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:
Marlow wrote:Oooooh, I just watched the video again and realized that if the peg the bar was on was an intermediate peg (where there are ones above and below) the bar most probably would have come back down on the right peg after bouncing up! We wuz robbed!!!


Isn't there also a rule that the top peg must be used in competition?


I always use the top peg when it will work, but if you have 13'/370 standards, heights below 365 require going to a lower peg, and not too many meets have the women starting above 365. The bars are much less forgiving now that the pegs have been shortened and the one side rounded.

The top surface could be made with little or now horizontal element on some standards but it might be harder with others. The ones we now use have a circular wheel that adjusts the top placement of the standards; the bottom part is only moved when calibrating the placement (i.e., so that 45cm behind the box gives you 45 cm on the standards). I then mark the ground in a manner so that I can get the standards back exactly where they were if something happens to displace them, like the guy who smashed into them the last meet; we had to tilt the standards down to re-attach the cushion piece.
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Re: Lavillenie's 6.07 miss????

Postby gh » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:22 pm

here's how you mark the chart when you get a Lavillenie situation, and you know that the usual x's and o's system doesn't work.

The symbol for a leaner:
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