NFL Combine

[Pego]

Marquis Goodwin ran an unofficial 4.17 at the combine this morning. Since the official times are always slower, we'll have to wait a while to see if he broke Chris Johnson's record of 4.24.

ESPN reports official 4.27

[jazzcyclist]

With 38 reps on the bench press, Margus Hunt was the strongest player at this year's combine. He runs the 40 today.

[mal]

NFL Combine 2012 - The Cautionary Tale of Mike Mamula[/url]
cman

Ah yes, the "enigmatic Wonderlic Test". It doesn't tell you anything at all how they'll do on the football field, but the low-scoring players sure are fun around the locker-room as you send them out on a snipe hunt or to fetch a left-handed screwdriver or some AC batteries.

Actually you've missed the example. The Wunderlic is an IQ test for football QBs. (Not sure about the others, but no one complains about a dumb DE). Those with really low numbers tend to fare badly.

Mike Mamula is a the cautionary tail of a combine warrior. Who out performed everyone in the combine. Had 'never' been heard of pre combine and got the Eagles so excited they took him the first round I believe. Turned out the combine is not like the real game. He was a total bust. A nice person apparently, but couldn't play in the NFL.

[Dutra5]

Actually you've missed the example. The Wunderlic is an IQ test for football QBs. (Not sure about the others, but no one complains about a dumb DE). Those with really low numbers tend to fare badly.

The Wonderlic test is used in a lot of fields and in the NFL it is used for every player. Last years CB Mo Claiborne supposedly scored a 6 (or some other really low number) and it was fairly large news to fans of teams who were considering drafting him and he had to answer a lot of questions about it.

[jazzcyclist]

With 38 reps on the bench press, Margus Hunt was the strongest player at this year's combine. He runs the 40 today.

Hunt continues to impress. After measuring in at 6'8" and 277 pounds, he ran the 40 in 4.60s. Now that's what I call a freak!

[j-a-m]

The Wonderlic test is used in a lot of fields and in the NFL it is used for every player. Last years CB Mo Claiborne supposedly scored a 6 (or some other really low number) and it was fairly large news to fans of teams who were considering drafting him and he had to answer a lot of questions about it.

All that said about Claiborne is that he didn't bother to prepare for the test; it didn't say anything about his intelligence. And the Cowboys didn't seem to care.

[Pego]

The Wonderlic test is used in a lot of fields and in the NFL it is used for every player. Last years CB Mo Claiborne supposedly scored a 6 (or some other really low number) and it was fairly large news to fans of teams who were considering drafting him and he had to answer a lot of questions about it.

All that said about Claiborne is that he didn't bother to prepare for the test; it didn't say anything about his intelligence. And the Cowboys didn't seem to care.

The biggest problem with IQ tests is that they test knowledge and it is extremely difficult to separate acquired knowledge from inherent IQ as much as they try. Very few questions in those tests test pure reason, those are mostly mathematical. Not all IQ is mathematical and not all mathematical represents high overall IQ.

An interesting observation. I scored about 40 points higher in my native language than I did just a few years later in English on a very similar IQ test. Not sure, but I think that the cultural differences caused more of a drop that the language itself.

[Cooter Brown]

Mike Mamula is a the cautionary tail of a combine warrior. Who out performed everyone in the combine. Had 'never' been heard of pre combine and got the Eagles so excited they took him the first round I believe. Turned out the combine is not like the real game. He was a total bust. A nice person apparently, but couldn't play in the NFL.

He did play 6 years for the Eagles which is probably around average for a 1st rounder since the average career is less than 3 years.

[Conor Dary]

Apparently Teo was a bust at the combine. And to pile it on the teams want to know if he is gay....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/br ... 46449.poll


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... 8254.story

[batonless relay]

Apparently Teo was a bust at the combine. And to pile it on the teams want to know if he is gay....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/br ... 46449.poll


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... 8254.story

Interesting. I want to say that teams have no right but the entire combine process is the most humiliating, degrading "job interview" and it came to be long before reality TV (The Apprentice, The Job, The bachelor/rette, and My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss). If they can ask about whether or not a top draft picks mother was a prostitute then they can ask whether or not a player is gay.

Even in the no-holds-barred world of the NFL, where a head coach can get a free pass after using the female pronoun 'she' to describe a male player, Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland took a moon leap out of bounds when he asked Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant during a pre-draft interview if the player's mother used to be a prostitute.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z2M214LnVb

[Marlow]

teams want to know if he is gay....

Don't ask, don't tell!!

It hasn't happened yet, but when someone asks if I'm gay, I'll answer in the affirmative!(I am, after all, a very happy person, almost all the time!). I just want to see how the conversation develops as we're using the word in different ways. I did tell the Jehovah Witnesses that I was a card-carrying Satanist and, did they want to see the card? That didn't play out as humorously as I had hoped. They were determined to save my soul, there and then.

[Marlow]

if the player's mother used to be a prostitute.

Old joke from my Navy days (sometimes backfired spectacularly):

Me: Do you have any pictures of your wife naked?
Him: No!
Me: Would you like to buy some?

[Pego]

Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland took a moon leap out of bounds when he asked Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant during a pre-draft interview if the player's mother used to be a prostitute.

A good answer would be, "Yes, she mentioned you as her customer that stiffed her up" and walk out .

[Marlow]

[she mentioned you as her customer that stiffed her up"

um . . . I'm not sure that's gonna help . . .

[Pego]

[she mentioned you as her customer that stiffed her up"

um . . . I'm not sure that's gonna help . . .

The double entendre was totally unintentional .

[lonewolf]

Sure it was.

[Dutra5]

The Wonderlic test is used in a lot of fields and in the NFL it is used for every player. Last years CB Mo Claiborne supposedly scored a 6 (or some other really low number) and it was fairly large news to fans of teams who were considering drafting him and he had to answer a lot of questions about it.

All that said about Claiborne is that he didn't bother to prepare for the test; it didn't say anything about his intelligence. And the Cowboys didn't seem to care.

No matter the reflection on the particular player, I was addressing the fact that it was used for more than QBs...or even NFL players.

[Dutra5]

Mike Mamula is a the cautionary tail of a combine warrior. Who out performed everyone in the combine. Had 'never' been heard of pre combine and got the Eagles so excited they took him the first round I believe. Turned out the combine is not like the real game. He was a total bust. A nice person apparently, but couldn't play in the NFL.

He did play 6 years for the Eagles which is probably around average for a 1st rounder since the average career is less than 3 years.

Mamula wasn't a total bust but I think a lot of teams would like a bit better performance than the Eagles got. The problem was that his pick was traded to Tampa Bay who then took Warren Sapp and IIRC they used another pick acquired in the same Eagles deal to help trade up to select Derrick Brooks.

[jazzcyclist]

The 2013 NFL Combine has come to a close, and it turns out that the fastest guy (Marquis Goodwin) and the strongest guy (Margus Hunt) are both former elite track and field athletes. Also, Texas A&M running back Chrisitne Michael had the best vertical leap (43"), Southerm Mississippi linebacker Jamie Collins set a new combine record with the best broad jump (11'7"), Utah State cornerback Will Davis had the fastest three-cone drill (6.52s), William & Mary cornerback B.W. Webb had the fastest 20-yard shuttle run (3.84s) and Missouri wide receiver T.J. Moe had the fastest 60-yard shuttle run (10.87s). Am I the only one who would be curious to see how Ashton Eaton would perform in the combine's seven drills?

[Marlow]

The 2013 NFL Combine has come to a close, and it turns out that the fastest guy (Marquis Goodwin) and the strongest guy (Margus Hunt) are both former elite track and field athletes. Also, Texas A&M running back Chrisitne Michael had the best vertical leap (43"), Southerm Mississippi linebacker Jamie Collins set a new combine record with the best broad jump (11'7"), Utah State cornerback Will Davis had the fastest three-cone drill (6.52s), William & Mary cornerback B.W. Webb had the fastest 20-yard shuttle run (3.84s) and Missouri wide receiver T.J. Moe had the fastest 60-yard shuttle run (10.87s). Am I the only one who would be curious to see how Ashton Eaton would perform in the combine's seven drills?

Quantifying athletic talent has always fascinated me, which is why I love T&F, I guess. Yes, I wanna know how some of our best would do. Not in the same category ,but tracksters always did well in the old ABC show, Superstars. T&F Champions:

Bob Seagren
Renaldo Nehemiah (4)
Mike Powell
Willie Gault (2)
Dave Johnson (2)

[jazzcyclist]

Here's an interesting fact. In the last eight years only four men have run sub-4.30 at the NFL combine:

1) Combine Record Holder Chris Johnson - 4.24
2) Two-time NCAA and 2011 USATF Long Jump Champion Marquis Goodwin - 4.27
3) NCAA Indoor 60-meter Champion Jacoby Ford - 4.28
4) Former Miami Cornerback Demarcus Van Dyke, who ran track for the Hurricanes and measured a svelte 6'1" and 176 pounds - 4.28

The bottom line is that with the current timing system, you've really done something if you run sub-4.30 in Indianapolis.

[mal]

The can be no denial, there are some fantastic athletic specimens at the combine.

Not like the old days when we could claim that we own all the speed or strength. Some of these guys would be monsters with a great coaching. And time.

[jazzcyclist]

The can be no denial, there are some fantastic athletic specimens at the combine.

Not like the old days when we could claim that we own all the speed or strength. Some of these guys would be monsters with a great coaching. And time.

There's no doubt about that. Yesterday, I heard a Chris Johnson radio interview in which he again challenged Usain Bolt to a 40-yard dash. That would defintely be an interesting race. What's amazing about his 4.24 is that he measured 5'11" and 195 pounds when he did it. Can you imagine what he could do if he got down to 180 pounds and spent a year with a sprint coach?

[batonless relay]

beating Bolt in a 40 yd race is not that significant, it's only 36.5 meters, and johnson is world-class fast for 40 yds. there are many who can do that. however, if we use the bolt of berlin or even London, then I highly doubt that Johnson could, even for 40 yards. stretch that to 100m and the task is more daunting. There is no question in my mind that Chris Johnson could be an excellent 60m/100m sprinter and I would think that he would have a lot of company in the NFL. After watching Bolt dunk at the celebrity game there is also no question that if he grew up in the USA that he would be one of the highest paid receivers in the NFL - if not the highest paid DT/DE or safety (no telling what his weight would be after years of eating and heavy weights lifting).

[jazzcyclist]

beating Bolt in a 40 yd race is not that significant, it's only 36.5 meters, and johnson is world-class fast for 40 yds. there are many who can do that.

Many? I don't think so. Only one person out of the last 2500 has done it, and there were a few world-class sprinters in that bunch.

however, if we use the bolt of berlin or even London, then I highly doubt that Johnson could, even for 40 yards.

Considering the fact that Bolt is a good, but not great starter, my money would be on Johnson. However, Asafa Powell would be a different story.

stretch that to 100m and the task is more daunting. There is no question in my mind that Chris Johnson could be an excellent 60m/100m sprinter and I would think that he would have a lot of company in the NFL. After watching Bolt dunk at the celebrity game there is also no question that if he grew up in the USA that he would be one of the highest paid receivers in the NFL - if not the highest paid DT/DE or safety (no telling what his weight would be after years of eating and heavy weights lifting).

I'm not impressed at all by the fact that a 6'5" guy can dunk a basketball, and after watching Bolt try to shoot a basketball and knowing that he can't even carry the baton in his non-dominant hand, I seriously doubt that he has the hand-eye coordination and body control to play wide reciever in the NFL. There have been plenty of world-class sprinters who failed to make it in the NFL as wide recievers due to their lack of skills (eg. Jim Hines, John Capel, Leonard Scott, etc.).

[batonless relay]

You're resting your hat on an extremely flawed timing process (Witness steve Williams of Cal getting robbed by that timing system). Goodwin ran 4.27; that makes him as good as Johnson (something the other 8 athletes under 4.30 could argue).

I acknowledge that bolt is not a great starter and you should acknowledge that i said berlin or london where he was otherworldly. Average bolt *could* be beaten by any of the sub-4.30 guys, the berlin or london bolt never would be. My opinion is that you would lose that bet 98 times out of 100. that's irrational for a good gambler but it would make sense for a poor one.

(If I'm going off of *potential* then I don't take Johnson at 180 with a year of a sprint coach, i take Johnson at 195 with a year of a sprint coach. Only that Johnson's name would be Calvin.) If all you saw was a 6'5" guy dunk than you probably shouldn't be wondering if Johnson can beat Bolt because you don't understand athletic ability. You say it would be interesting, and that's your opinion, but I believe it would be all hype and not worth the price of admission.

I used wikipedia combine results (I acknowledge they may be inaccurate). Now look at the 10yd list and the 40 yard list. Nearly all of the guys on the 40 yard list don't make the 10 yard list except Johnson and a few others. that means that if we could dartfish those other sub-4.30's not named Johnson that we would see them all maintaining the initial distance on Johnson or *closing* on Johnson. And this is they guy you think can beat bolt?

40 yd
4.24 Chris Johnson 5 ft 11 in, 197 lb 2008
4.25 Darrius Heyward-Bey[6] 6 ft 2 in, 210 lb (95 kg) 2009
4.27 Stanford Routt 6 ft 2 in, 193 lb (88 kg) 2005
4.27 Marquise Goodwin 5 ft 9 in, 170 lb (77 kg) 2013
4.28 DeMarcus Van Dyke 6 ft 1 in, 176 lb (80 kg) 2011
4.28 Champ Bailey 6 ft 0 in, 184 lb (83 kg) 1999
4.28 Jerome Mathis 5 ft 11 in, 181 lb (82 kg) 2005
4.28 Carl Vogel 6 ft 0 in, 195 lb (88 kg) 2013
4.28 Jacoby Ford 5 ft 8 in, 190 lb (86 kg) 2010
4.29 Josh Robinson 5 ft 11 in, 200 lb (91 kg) 2012
4.29 Trindon Holliday 5 ft 5 in, 155 lb (70 kg) 2010
4.29 Fabian Washington 5 ft 11 in, 188 lb (85 kg) 2005
4.29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 6 ft 2 in, 184 lb (83 kg) 2008
4.30 Yamon Figurs 5 ft 11 in, 174 lb (79 kg) 2007
4.30 Darrent Williams 5 ft 9 in, 176 lb (80 kg) 2005
4.30 Tye Hill 5 ft 10 in, 185 lb (84 kg) 2006

10 yd
=1 1.40 Peerman, Cedric 2009
=1 1.40 Johnson, Chris 2008
=1 1.40 King, Justin 2008
4 1.41 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 2008
=5 1.43 Wallace, Mike 2009
=5 1.43 Aundrae Allison 2007
=5 1.43 Eric Weddle 2007
=5 1.43 Marcus McCauley 2007
=5 1.43 Branch, Tyvon 2008
=5 1.43 Franklin, Will 2008
=5 1.43 Wilhite, Jonathan 2008
=5 1.43 McKelvin, Leodis 2008
=5 1.43 Molden, Antwaun 2008
=5 1.43 Demps, Quintin 2008
=5 1.43 Walker, Marcus 2008
=5 1.43 Zenon, Jonathan 2008
=5 1.43 Morgan, DaJuan 2008

[jazzcyclist]

You're resting your hat on an extremely flawed timing process

The current system may be flawed, but I wouldn't call it extremely flawed. The old system was extremely flawed. But I must also point out that even the IAAF's timing system is flawed whenever the meet is held at an outdoor stadium. At least with the combine, the wind and elevation are identical from year to year.

(Witness steve Williams of Cal getting robbed by that timing system).

I have no idea what or who you're talking about.

Goodwin ran 4.27; that makes him as good as Johnson (something the other 8 athletes under 4.30 could argue).

Now you're lawyering the facts. Saying that 4.27 is as good as 4.24 at 40 yards is like saying that 10.00 us as good as 9.90 at 100 meters. Also, there have only been three other athletes under 4.30, not eight.

I acknowledge that bolt is not a great starter and you should acknowledge that i said berlin or london where he was otherworldly. Average bolt *could* be beaten by any of the sub-4.30 guys, the berlin or london bolt never would be. My opinion is that you would lose that bet 98 times out of 100. that's irrational for a good gambler but it would make sense for a poor one.

This is just idle specualtion and conjecture. Let's stick to facts.

(If I'm going off of *potential* then I don't take Johnson at 180 with a year of a sprint coach, i take Johnson at 195 with a year of a sprint coach. Only that Johnson's name would be Calvin.) If all you saw was a 6'5" guy dunk than you probably shouldn't be wondering if Johnson can beat Bolt because you don't understand athletic ability.

After reading your previous posts, I'm confident that I have a much better grasp of athletic ability than you do.

You say it would be interesting, and that's your opinion, but I believe it would be all hype and not worth the price of admission.

I used wikipedia combine results (I acknowledge they may be inaccurate).

Then why are you quoting a source that you know is questionable? Why don't you quote nfl.com's official combine results?

[batonless relay]

the system is extremely flawed. full stop. Even rich eisen and Deion sanders commented on how off the times were. If you didn't see what happened to steve williams then you shouldn't defend the system as merely flawed; in some cases they felt the system was completely wrong.

I'm not lawyering facts (whatever that means), I'm saying that in a completely flawed system that .03 difference is inconsequential. it means that there is virutally no difference between the two players and that either would have an "equal" chance competing against Bolt and it equals no chance. I provided a list of the athletes already; it has been more than 3.

fanboy speculation is what you have posted by surmising that Johnson has a chance. I bet you play lots of fantasy sports; we're talking real world that's why you can't make the proper projections. You have absolutely nothing to back up the fact that Johnson would even be close to bolt. No track times, no 10m or 10 yd break downs, no unofficial race, absolutely nothing that says that Johnson is anything better than all the other guys who have run under 4.30 in an extremely flawed system. You don't even have any information that suggests that johnson could beat Gay, Powell, Gatlin, Bailey, Bailey, Blake or even Lemaitre. Stick to facts? stick to football players, those are his peers not top-10 100m sprinters.


As for your belief that the timing system isn't flawed.

1.Each participant is given 2 attempts at the 40 yard dash and is timed with 3 different stopwatches on each run, however only one of those stopwatches is “electronic.”
2.The electronic timing is not fully electronic. The stopwatch is started by a human, and it is important to understand that it is started by human hands on the first movement of the 40 yard dash participant. That means that there is always room for human error, though less than if it were fully hand-timed.
3.Since each player runs the 40 twice, there would be no single “official” time even if only the electronic times are used.

[jazzcyclist]

Batonless relay, I just realized how few posts you have. It's pretty obvious that you're a poster who has banned from the board before for reasons that are self-evident based on the few posts of yours that I've read. Life is too short to get into a silly pissing contest with you, so you're going to have to find someone else to troll. And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.

[kuha]

How many death sentences are needed to kill the vermin here?

[batonless relay]

Batonless relay, I just realized how few posts you have. It's pretty obvious that you're a poster who has banned from the board before for reasons that are self-evident based on the few posts of yours that I've read. Life is too short to get into a silly pissing contest with you, so you're going to have to find someone else to troll. And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.

No pissing match despite your accusations of lawyering facts or false equivalencies of comparing the IAAF timing with nfl. I just don't agree with you.

[sprintzfan]

What's interesting about the combine is how much we think it changes anything. We have no idea if it changes anything or not.

At a football camp last summer I listened in on a conversation between two current NFL QBs discussing the combine with a player just coming out of college. The two current NFL players were at opposite ends of the spectrum with one being an extremely high choice and the other not drafted. Both players felt that the combine really didn't mean a whole lot to the vast majority of players and that it was the media that gave their readers, listeners, etc. the impression that the performance was changing anything.

I haven't seen any players who were off the radar screen skyrocket to the 1st round based on their performance at the combine, but I have seen many projected 1st rounders take a free fall based on a poor performance, bad interview/pshycological evaluation or flunked drug test at the combine.

There was this defensive player in the 90s, Mike Mamula (sp?) who I think the Eagles drafted, who I most often hear cited as the prime example of a how a guy can make himself a high draft pick, by little more than an exceptional combine performance.

My sense is Mamula skyrocketed up the draft list after the combine. Can't recall whether he went in the first round or not though.



p.s. Geez! Didn't realize I just responded to a YEAR OLD post until a moment ago. lol Just noticed the year of jazz's post.

I'll shut up and just read now until I get the recent stuff.

[sprintzfan]

...And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.

You're missing out jazz!

Lots of fun in my personal opinion.