Pistorius implicated in a murder


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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:14 am

i try to stay away from the details because there's too muach i cant know about

the locked in a bathroom etc, etc

if the case convinces a jury, guit or innocence is irrelevant
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby schigh » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:44 am

It appears that one key 'fact' the two sides disagree on is whether or not he had his prosthetic legs on at the time of the shooting. It seems like they should be able to determine this by the angles of the bullets, etc.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bushop » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:55 am

mump boy wrote:... who shoots a suspected burglar through a locked door?

I would; if I thought the intruder was reloading or unjamming a weapon.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby jeremyp » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:01 am

az2004 wrote:i try to stay away from the details because there's too muach i cant know about

the locked in a bathroom etc, etc

if the case convinces a jury, guit or innocence is irrelevant

As stated earlier there are no juries in S.A.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby eldanielfire » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:12 am

JumboElliott wrote:Ugh. There is little science behind so-called "roid rage"


There is little Science behind any effect of steroids which aren't related to medical use because it would be unethical to perform those kind of tests. However there is plenty of reports and anecdotal evidence that Scientists have been perfectly happy to reference over the years.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:37 am

bushop wrote:
mump boy wrote:... who shoots a suspected burglar through a locked door?

I would; if I thought the intruder was reloading or unjamming a weapon.


Really? Unless you were alone wouldn't you assume it might be someone in there you know. I mean I think I would at least yell through the door to find out who was there.

But of course BM already knew who was there since she ran there...
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:41 am

Unless there was an OUTSIDE door leading directly to the bathroom (rather unlikely) the whole "I had no idea who could possibly be in my bathroom" scenario is absurd. But its also absurd that that observation even needs to be made.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:49 am

kuha wrote:Unless there was an OUTSIDE door leading directly to the bathroom (rather unlikely) the whole "I had no idea who could possibly be in my bathroom" scenario is absurd. But its also absurd that that observation even needs to be made.


With all of the gun violence in this country I have never heard of an instance where someone shot an actual intruder behind a closed bathroom door. A pretty lame story. I am surprised BM couldn't have thought of something more plausible. Which probably shows that BM is not very bright.

PS. An outside door!! Like some outhouse.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Dave » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:00 am

kuha wrote:Unless there was an OUTSIDE door leading directly to the bathroom (rather unlikely) the whole "I had no idea who could possibly be in my bathroom" scenario is absurd. But its also absurd that that observation even needs to be made.


I am guessing the prosecutors will be focused on discredited this sort of absurd scenario.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:05 am

kuha wrote:Unless there was an OUTSIDE door leading directly to the bathroom (rather unlikely) the whole "I had no idea who could possibly be in my bathroom" scenario is absurd. But its also absurd that that observation even needs to be made.


This ^^

it's not even like he woke up in the middle of the night and heard noises, we know from neighbours that there was shouting in the house but even if he did just wake up, rather than wondering where his girlfriend was and assuming she was in the bathroom, he just got a gun and started shooting !! with no evidence of a break in, no warning, not seeming to care that there was someone else legitimately in the house

Why would a burglar be in your bathroom anyway unless he was there to steal your steroids !!

What a load of crap
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby DrJay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:39 am

mump boy wrote:Why would a burglar be in your bathroom anyway unless he was there to steal your steroids !! What a load of crap


Surely in the long and colorful history of burglary there's been at least a few guys who didn't plan ahead, and when you gotta go, you gotta go.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:48 am

DrJay wrote:
mump boy wrote:Why would a burglar be in your bathroom anyway unless he was there to steal your steroids !! What a load of crap


Surely in the long and colorful history of burglary there's been at least a few guys who didn't plan ahead, and when you gotta go, you gotta go.


I think in Three Days of the Condor one of the victims is shot through the bathroom door. Maybe BM got the idea there.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:49 am

in Pistorius' own words:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... own-words/

[list=]
16.7 During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.
16.8 I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.
16.9 I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
16.10 I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
16.11 I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
16.12 It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
16.13 I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
16.14 When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
16.15 I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.
16.16 I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. [/list]
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bushop » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:52 am

Conor Dary wrote:
bushop wrote:
mump boy wrote:... who shoots a suspected burglar through a locked door?
I would; if I thought the intruder was reloading or unjamming a weapon.
Really? Unless you were alone wouldn't you assume it might be someone in there you know. I mean I think I would at least yell through the door to find out who was there.

Agreed.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:02 am

Now we know the bathroom door was locked, since BM had to use the cricket bat to break the door down. Two people in the house and she locks the door....hmmmm....BM should have had a better story lined up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/world ... ge.html?hp
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:08 am

Again, it doesn't really need stating, but this whole idea of "when in doubt just starting blasting away in the dark" is just mind bogglingly insane. But, of course, I guess it's only insane if the end results here were not intended.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:13 am

batonless relay wrote:in Pistorius' own words:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... own-words/


If things happened exactly as he stated, he's guilty of at least manslaughter. He didn't take any reasonable steps to ascertain that the person in the bathroom was an intruder, and he knew she was spending the night so he should have done something to check if it was her. Shooting at the first sign of doubt or fright is irresponsible and reckless gun ownership.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:16 am

Conor Dary wrote:Now we know the bathroom door was locked, since BM had to use the cricket bat to break the door down. Two people in the house and she locks the door....hmmmm....BM should have had a better story lined up.


Locking the door isn't entirely strange or implausible. Even when I'm alone I sometimes lock the bathroom door, just from old habits.

What doesn't make sense is him going out to the balcony to bring in the fan and close the sliding door without his prosthetics.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pelpa » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:23 am

If Pistorius is convicted, will he be allowed to wear his prosthetic legs, and if yes will he be allowed to wear the carbon fibre blade types?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby peach77 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 am

Agree entirely with the post before last- I always lock the bathroom door out of habit. Drives my other half insane for some reason...

The thing with all of this everyone has to bear in mind is that you're all believing what has been said in the press. There's been nothing in the actual case yet about steroids being found, about the cricket bat being used to bash the victim's skull in, about the first and last shots being separated by minutes...all or some of those things could yet surface, but I'd have thought at least some of them would have been brought up today (especially the latter) and as such, you have to take everything being reported with a BIG fat pinch of salt until it's totally brought up in court.

The thing I can't get my head around is how he never noticed Reena wasn't in bed. Pitch black or not, surely if you thought someone was in the bathroom your first reaction would be to check it wasn't the other person there with you, rather than attacking the intruder...
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:38 am

peach77 wrote:

The thing with all of this everyone has to bear in mind is that you're all believing what has been said in the press.


Believe? If it wasn't a such a tragic story of murder, it would be too comical...Reminds me more of a Coen Brothers movie.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bad hammy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:16 am

Conor Dary wrote:
DrJay wrote:Surely in the long and colorful history of burglary there's been at least a few guys who didn't plan ahead, and when you gotta go, you gotta go.


I think in Three Days of the Condor one of the victims is shot through the bathroom door.

Along with Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction . . .
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:14 pm

Right I forgot about that. But, if I remember right, Vega was already in the house when the Hero returns home. He also left his gun on the counter which was sort of a tell-tale sign that some intruder was there.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bad hammy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:44 pm

Either way he should have downloaded before he went out on the job . . .
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:45 pm

Conor Dary wrote:Right I forgot about that. But, if I remember right, Vega was already in the house when the Hero returns home. He also left his gun on the counter which was sort of a tell-tale sign that some intruder was there.



And the door may or may not have been locked, but Vincent was on his way out the door he'd just opened when he got blasted back.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby DecFan » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:49 pm

Note that there is an exterior, unbarred window into the bathroom. That answers some of the questions raised a page ago.

Also, while Pistorius' account looks to have holes, so does the prosecution's account. Namely: If she were afraid for her life, and Pistorius did not have his prosthetics on (as both the prosecution and Pistorius contend) why would she not have fled from the house altogether instead of locking herself in the bathroom? Surely she was capable of outrunning him.

See the latest AP story in the Wash Post.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bad hammy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:06 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:And the door may or may not have been locked, but Vincent was on his way out the door he'd just opened when he got blasted back.

If you want a movie with the same circumstances as the Pistorius story you'll have to wait for "Blade Gunner" . . .
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:09 pm

I never thought Oscar Pistorius should have been allowed by CAS to run even though his story was quite inspirational. Strangely, the discovery of steroids is more invalidating to his story than the death of Reeva Steenkamp if we're to be honest.

Unlike many of you, i do see a scenario where this was just a horrific accident. An accident that unfortunately left Reeva Steenkamp dead. An accident for which he is genuinely sorry even without the prison sentence hanging over his head. An accident for which he will spend some time in prison, deservedly. However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile, as it has been written by others in this thread. It just makes him human, which has little to do with being sponsored by nike or even being an athlete. In fact wikipedia has a list of familicides in the US, rampage killers and familicides in Europe and I doubt any of these troubled people were active athletes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fa ... ted_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fa ... _in_Europe
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:12 pm

avoiding all together the fact that a mans story about aman-shooting-his-girlfriend-to-death-in-his-own-home is bound to have holes in it...

ask yourself this question: what "real man" after shooting his girlfriend to death in his own home (under any circumstances) would still want to live ?

The guy is just another vile lowlife self absorbed male child .
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:17 pm

batonless relay wrote:Strangely, the discovery of steroids is more invalidating to his story than the death of Reeva Steenkamp if we're to be honest.


This is a joke, but it's not at all funny.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:26 pm

batonless relay wrote:Unlike many of you, i do see a scenario where this was just a horrific accident. An accident that unfortunately left Reeva Steenkamp dead. An accident for which he is genuinely sorry even without the prison sentence hanging over his head. An accident for which he will spend some time in prison, deservedly. However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile, as it has been written by others in this thread. It just makes him human, which has little to do with being sponsored by nike or even being an athlete.

Are you being sarcastic?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Flumpy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:27 pm

batonless relay wrote:However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile, as it has been written by others in this thread. It just makes him human,


What the actual f*ck??? :shock:
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:30 pm

user4 wrote:avoiding all together the fact that a mans story about aman-shooting-his-girlfriend-to-death-in-his-own-home is bound to have holes in it...

ask yourself this question: what "real man" after shooting his girlfriend to death in his own home (under any circumstances) would still want to live ?

The guy is just another vile lowlife self absorbed male child .

You lose all credibility by trying to define what a "real man" is in addition to coming off more self-absorbed than the people you're writing about. Suicide, to most people, is less rational than lying/hiding/running, which is probably why fewer men kill themselves after killing a woman.

"real man" beats ex-lover to a pulp
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Kwa ... 230112.php
Last edited by batonless relay on Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:34 pm

He's certainly going to prison. The only question is whether it's for manslaughter, murder, or premeditated murder, and how long the sentence will be. His own story is a confession of manslaughter.

Even if all the bullets missed her, he'd still go to prison for reckless discharge of a firearm.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Dave » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:34 pm

Flumpy wrote:
batonless relay wrote:However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile, as it has been written by others in this thread. It just makes him human,


What the actual f*ck??? :shock:


The previous cases of domestic disturbances are going to make it very easy for the prosecutors to brush aside any claims of "fear of an intruder" or "steroid rage". I don't pretend to know the intricacies of South African law on the topic. But this feels like at best it would be aggravated homicide and more likely some form of murder. Not exactly "just makes him human" material.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:36 pm

18.99s wrote:He's certainly going to prison. The only question is whether it's for manslaughter, murder, or premeditated murder, and how long the sentence will be. His own story is a confession of manslaughter.

Even if all the bullets missed her, he'd still go to prison for reckless discharge of a firearm.

I completely agree that at a minimum it's manslaughter and that he deserves to go to prison. I just don't think someone is automatically evil because they kill.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:45 pm

batonless relay wrote:I completely agree that at a minimum it's manslaughter and that he deserves to go to prison. I just don't think someone is automatically evil because they kill.

Neither do I. Killing is justified in some circumstances, like when somebody has pointed a gun at you or a hostage.

But you wrote "that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile". That's ridiculous.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:47 pm

Calls dad/relative, not medical people/police.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:47 pm

batonless relay wrote:However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile


Au contraire, it most certainly would.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby DrJay » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:51 pm

batonless relay wrote: However, even if it wasn't an accident (in the sense that he never meant to shoot her) - that this was an angry/jealous man who purposely pointed the gun in her direction and pulled the trigger knowing full well that she was behind the door - that would not make him evil or even vile, as it has been written by others in this thread. It just makes him human....


Quite the apologist.
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