No wrestling in 2020 Olympics


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Re: No wrestling at the Olympics! Are they drunk or on crac

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:18 pm

eldanielfire wrote:Those complaining about dancing horses should really understand equestarian sports has as much right o the Olympics as Wresting, but date back to the acient greek games and start of the modern games which in my opinion should mean they should be untouchable at the Olympics.


If they're going to touch the historical untouchables, equestrian should be removed long before wrestling.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby HopStepJump » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:54 pm

This is a kick in the balls for me. In addition to going to the last 2 trials in Eugene, I also went to the past 2 US wrestling trials as well as multiple wrestling sessions at the Olympics. Those guys (and ladies) work their asses off for way less glory than even track athletes get. There is barely any funding and only one athlete gets to represent the country, and that's only if they manage to get the weight class qualified to begin with. How the F do badminton, pentathlon, taekwondo, triathlon, table tennis, and judo make it higher up on the food chain? Unbelievable.
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Re: No wrestling at the Olympics! Are they drunk or on crac

Postby doug5321 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:45 pm

TN1965 wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:What kind of climbing are they talking about?
...

But really, when they can take wrestling, could weight lifting be next? Archery is still in. I don't know anybody who follows that sport.


Apparently, this is the kind of climbing they are talking about.

http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/ ... asics.html

Weight lifting and archery don't suffer from the same problem that wrestling does. Wrestling has 10 weight classes each in Greco-Roman and Freestyle for men, but only four Freestyle weight classes (and no Greco-Roman) for women. (Of course, far more men participate in competitive wrestling than women.) IOC does not want a sport that is so male-dominated.

Weigh lifting has eight classes for men and seven for women. Archery has the same number of events for men and women.


just a side note there are 7 weight classes in mens freestyle in the olympics, 7 for greco (greco has men only) and 4 for womens freestyle.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Powell » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:46 am

Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby KDFINE » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:38 am

The I.O.C. is quick to take action against any who would dare to use the word Olympics, or the five ring symbol commercially without payment of a fee. I would suggest that any Olympics without the original Olympic sports of Track and Field or Wrestling is a misappropriation of the name "Olympics."
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby 18.99s » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:41 am

Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?


More than whoever watched modern pentathlon.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby DrJay » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:23 am

Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?


I watched, like, no wrestling, but I also watched far less T&F than I'd like. Life is busy. That said, one can still have immense respect for the sport and its athletes and think it a travesty that it may be eliminated from the OG. I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:26 am

DrJay wrote: I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.


Silly Sport? I wouldn't even go that far. More like Ice Capades. Complete nonsense, but really what the IOC is all about.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby bambam » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:49 am

26mi235 wrote:I suspect that Wrestling has been tagged because of PEDs issues, and it gives the IOC the opportunity to hold a dagger over the heads of the sporting bodies to clean up more than was been the case a bit back.


That's not the reason. Wrestling has had only 8 PED +'s in the Olympics over the years - far less than weightlifting, athletics. There was only 1 wrestling + in London 2012. Only Sydney, with 3, ever had more than 1 doping + at a single Olympics.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby bambam » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:09 am

DrJay wrote:
Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?


I watched, like, no wrestling, but I also watched far less T&F than I'd like. Life is busy. That said, one can still have immense respect for the sport and its athletes and think it a travesty that it may be eliminated from the OG. I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.


In the IOC world there are three classes of what the list members are calling sports - sports, disciplines, and events. Rhythmic gymnastics is only a discipline within the sport of gymnastics, so there is no chance that would axed. There are several events within the discipline of rhythmic gymnastics. Synchronized diving is only an event within the discipline of diving. Swimming, diving, synchronized swimming, and water polo are not sports to the IOC, but disciplines within the sport of aquatics. I know that sounds strange if you don't deal with this a lot, but that's what they call it.

If I could ax one event it would be equestrian dressage - silly spectacle for rich people in my opinion.

Ancient Olympics had equestrian events, as somebody else on the board said, but it was only chariot racing, and nothing like modern equestrian events. More like trotters and pacers.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Tuariki » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:12 am

HopStepJump wrote: How the F do badminton, pentathlon, taekwondo, triathlon, table tennis, and judo make it higher up on the food chain? Unbelievable.

True that!! :roll: :roll:
Table tennis only has 300 million players worldwide, Badminton more than 20 million playing worldwide and that is one hell of a lot more than wrestlers worldwide. But WTF it's only Asians who play those games, and so I guess rice eaters are not counted in your food chain

However,in saying that, it is a disgrace that IOC corruption sees wrestling being dropped. But when you have the horsey riding set of royal bludgers and European old wealth dominating the IOC, the spoiled pampered elite will never let the horses get kicked out of the Olympics.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby cullman » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:25 am

bambam wrote:If I could ax one event it would be equestrian dressage - silly spectacle for rich people in my opinion.

I'd give boxing the heave ho too. Crap judging and corrupt federations.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby TN1965 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Tuariki wrote:Table tennis only has 300 million players worldwide, Badminton more than 20 million playing worldwide and that is one hell of a lot more than wrestlers worldwide. But WTF it's only Asians who play those games, and so I guess rice eaters are not counted in your food chain.


Modern pentathlon (30,000) is the summer Olympic sports with the smallest number of participants, if I am not mistaken. However, I have read over 99% of wrestlers worldwide (about 1 million) are men. That leaves about 1,000 women wrestling worldwide. Is that true?
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby mump boy » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:15 pm

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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby 18.99s » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:28 pm

TN1965 wrote:Modern pentathlon (30,000) is the summer Olympic sports with the smallest number of participants, if I am not mistaken. However, I have read over 99% of wrestlers worldwide (about 1 million) are men. That leaves about 1,000 women wrestling worldwide. Is that true?

1% of 1 million is 10 thousand.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby doug5321 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:50 pm

Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?



i watched it, i wrestled in college at oklahoma state then transferred to cal state bakerfield, my teammate at oklahoma state john smith won the 1988 and 1992 olympics and coached the 2012 olympic team, dont know any of the current wrestlers on the olympic team personally, but i like watching amateur wrestling (i like watching the fake pro wrestling also) i like watching all forms of wrestling freestyle, greco, folkstyle which is the NCAA style.

i was not happy hearing it was cut for 2020
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby TN1965 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:50 pm

Thanks for the correction. I thought it couldn't be as few as 1000. 10,000 makes more sense.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby lonewolf » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:40 pm

I watch Olympic wrestling because Okla State is usually/always represented on the team. I knew some of the old time wrestlers (1948-52-56) and follow OSU wrestling fortune

But, the reason wrestling should be retained in the Olympic is because it was one of the original sports and is still a principal sport in many nations who would otherwise have little chance to be competitive at the top level.

Allthough gymnastics is very popular and the athletes are undeniably skilled, I look askance at any sport that features subjective scoring... ditto diving, and there is no justification at all for ribbon twirling..
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby lonewolf » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:48 pm

..and style points in ski jumping makes no sense either.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby DrJay » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
DrJay wrote: I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.


Silly Sport? I wouldn't even go that far. More like Ice Capades. Complete nonsense, but really what the IOC is all about.


I almost put "sports" in quotes.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Halfmiler2 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:45 pm

TN1965 wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Table tennis only has 300 million players worldwide, Badminton more than 20 million playing worldwide and that is one hell of a lot more than wrestlers worldwide. But WTF it's only Asians who play those games, and so I guess rice eaters are not counted in your food chain.


Modern pentathlon (30,000) is the summer Olympic sports with the smallest number of participants, if I am not mistaken. However, I have read over 99% of wrestlers worldwide (about 1 million) are men. That leaves about 1,000 women wrestling worldwide. Is that true?


I had read a few years ago that Modern Pentathlon had considered replacing equestrian with mountain biking as one of its five events. Which would basically make it Tri-athlon plus shooting and fencing. This would open it up to the masses. It would have made sense to me for the IOC to mandate this and that the two federations merge into one federation for multi-sport. That would reduce the number of Olympic sports by one - if not the number of athletes.

As for wrestling, I am shocked. i figured that Greco-ROman wrestling might be in jeopardy but not the freestyle version which is more universal.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:18 pm

I sort of like the Modern Pentathlon, partly because when I was teaching at Trinity in San Antonio I was near where they were doing training and was running with some of the athletes occasionally.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby hc10003 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:35 pm

DrJay wrote:Conor Dary wrote:

DrJay wrote: I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.



Silly Sport? I wouldn't even go that far. More like Ice Capades. Complete nonsense, but really what the IOC is all about.


Agree entirely those warrant the ax - but I think that technically those are not sports to the IOC and thus were not candidates for elimination in this vote. Aren't synch diving and rhythmic gymnastics events within the sports of swimming and gymnastics, respectively? They had the wisdom to align under the governance of two really popular sport federations.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby HopStepJump » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:33 am

Tuariki wrote:Table tennis only has 300 million players worldwide, Badminton more than 20 million playing worldwide and that is one hell of a lot more than wrestlers worldwide. But WTF it's only Asians who play those games, and so I guess rice eaters are not counted in your food chain



My wife happens to be one of your Chinese "rice eaters". I'm also well aware of the popularity of table tennis in China, so why don't you just stop making up shit.

As far as your point goes, should popular sports such as artistic gymnastics and diving also be on the chopping block because of their lower world-wide participancy? Some sports are harder to master than others and some do not lend themselves easily to recreational opportunities. I'm sure there are people in the 80s who can play table tennis, but how many people in their 50s want to go at it hard with someone else on the mat for several minutes?

So, contrary to your assertion of soft racism as being the driving factor for my opinion, here's what I am actually basing it on.

Wrestling-
Olympic roots back to the ancient Greeks
Part of every Olympics games except 1900
Referenced in the Olympic hymn, FFS!
29 NOCs won medals in 2012, 27 in 2008, 28 in 2004
In its Olympic history, 1078 total medals won by 54 different nations
Recommended IOC venue size- 8000 seats

Badminton-
In the Olympics since 2000
In its history, 91 total medals won by 10 NOCs (88% by eastern Asian nations, rest by Europe and one by India))
Infamously had players purposely tanking matches in 2012 for a better seed in the knockout rounds
Recommended IOC venue size- 5000 seats

Table Tennis-
In the olympcs since 1992
88 total medals won by 12 NOCs (85% by eastern Asian nations, rest by Europe)
24 out of 28 gold medals won by a single nation- China (3 of the 4 non-Chinese golds won before 1996)
Recommended IOC venue size- 5000 seats

Softball and baseball got the axe in large part because they weren't globally competitive. I don't see that much of a difference here with table tennis or badminton. I also wouldn't recommend cutting either sport, but I would certainly chop them before wrestling.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Blues » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:25 am

Nintendo's "Wii Sports" is the top selling and most popular video game of all time, having sold a whopping 81 million games worldwide to date.. That would make more players worldwide than all but about the top 5 or 6 most popular olympic sports.. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the IOC realizes the potential... :roll:
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby bambam » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:02 pm

HopStepJump wrote:Softball and baseball got the axe in large part because they weren't globally competitive. I don't see that much of a difference here with table tennis or badminton. I also wouldn't recommend cutting either sport, but I would certainly chop them before wrestling.


There's a big difference here between softball/baseball and table tennis/badminton. Softball especially and baseball, to a degree, are dominated by the United States. Table tennis and badminton mostly dominated by China and a few other Asian nations (more in badminton). In the current climate in the IOC, with their USA-animus, softball/baseball had little chance. Note that the IOC has also made noises about eliminating women's ice hockey because it is completely dominated by the USA and Canada. This would not occur if it was dominated by European nations, I assure you.
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Cutting number of events Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olym

Postby GHM » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:55 pm

IOC should consider

Cutting number of events in rowing, canoeing, and kayaking. Same with cycling and BMX.

Number of athletes from each country could be cut down. T&F could be limited to two athletes per event per country like swimming. Cut tennis entry to two per country. Max two athletes per event per country in Badminton and table tennis. Ditto for cycling, mountain bike, and BMX.
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Re: Cutting number of events Re: No wrestling in 2020

Postby Fortius19 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:23 pm

GHM wrote:T&F could be limited to two athletes per event per country like swimming.


What you say? :?
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby bushop » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:48 am

Brian wrote:Absolute bullshit. The sport is elemental. Long before I ever ran an organized race I was wrestling with other 4-year-old boys on the playground.
.

Amen... it is a universal sport along with atheltics and swimming... they are part of our everyday life. The IOC should add tag.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Halfmiler2 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:10 pm

26mi235 wrote:I sort of like the Modern Pentathlon, partly because when I was teaching at Trinity in San Antonio I was near where they were doing training and was running with some of the athletes occasionally.


One thing I like about Modern Pentatlon is that the final cross country race is handicapped by the points totals leading up to it. The point leaders going into the race get a head start and whoever crosses the finish line first is the actual gold medalist unlike in the decathlon.
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Re: Cutting number of events Re: No wrestling in 2020

Postby Halfmiler2 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:13 pm

GHM wrote:IOC should consider

Cutting number of events in rowing, canoeing, and kayaking. Same with cycling and BMX.

Number of athletes from each country could be cut down. T&F could be limited to two athletes per event per country like swimming. Cut tennis entry to two per country. Max two athletes per event per country in Badminton and table tennis. Ditto for cycling, mountain bike, and BMX.


The IOC has made previous attempts to limit the number of competitors which is why track & field now has tougher standards. This latest decision seems to be an attempt to simply limit the number of sports - which is why merging Triathlon and Modern Pentathlon into one federation would have been the simpliest answer.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby jeremyp » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:10 am

Don Rumsfeld, once a wrestler, and wannabe Olympian weighs in and makes some good points in favor of keeping his sport in the Olympics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z2
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:18 am

Well, if wrestling made Rumsfeld the man he is today, then I am all for getting rid of it.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Tuariki » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:57 am

HopStepJump wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Table tennis only has 300 million players worldwide, Badminton more than 20 million playing worldwide and that is one hell of a lot more than wrestlers worldwide. But WTF it's only Asians who play those games, and so I guess rice eaters are not counted in your food chain



My wife happens to be one of your Chinese "rice eaters". I'm also well aware of the popularity of table tennis in China, so why don't you just stop making up shit.

As far as your point goes, should popular sports such as artistic gymnastics and diving also be on the chopping block because of their lower world-wide participancy? Some sports are harder to master than others and some do not lend themselves easily to recreational opportunities. I'm sure there are people in the 80s who can play table tennis, but how many people in their 50s want to go at it hard with someone else on the mat for several minutes?

So, contrary to your assertion of soft racism as being the driving factor for my opinion, here's what I am actually basing it on.

Wrestling-

29 NOCs won medals in 2012, 27 in 2008, 28 in 2004
In its Olympic history, 1078 total medals won by 54 different nations

Badminton-

In its history, 91 total medals won by 10 NOCs (88% by eastern Asian nations, rest by Europe and one by India))
Infamously had players purposely tanking matches in 2012 for a better seed in the knockout rounds

Table Tennis-

88 total medals won by 12 NOCs (85% by eastern Asian nations, rest by Europe)
24 out of 28 gold medals won by a single nation- China (3 of the 4 non-Chinese golds won before 1996)


Temper, temper
You do appear overly focused to point out in support of your negativity towards badminton and table tennis that those sports are dominated by those "East Asians" as if this is a reason to get rid of a sport. Should we get rid of basketball because it is dominated by the USA?

And of course the infamy of the badminton players tanking to get a better draw in the final rounds. We won't mention wrestling's 7 Olympic drug cheats such as Tomas Johansen, Alidad, Fritz Aanes, Aexander Leipold, Oyuunbilegiin Purevbataar, Mabel Fonseca and Soslan Tigiev.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:25 pm

I watched the news today, oh boy!
Demonstration of the possible new Olympic sport Wushu. Do we need another Martial arts sport?
Kung Fu fighting, just a little bit frightening!

It was mentioned that Wrestling is boring and Wushu has about a million more hits than wrestling on YouTube. So maybe that's the way to go picking sports for the IOC. Counting hits on YouTube. They did not say how many hits it takes to fill the Albert Hall :evil:
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Brian » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:37 am

Wouldn't this be a real kick if the whole thing was done just for marketing...to spur interest in viewing wrestling the next Games...

[And thereby increase ad revenue during, of course.]
.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:22 am

Per Andersen wrote:I watched the news today, oh boy!
Demonstration of the possible new Olympic sport Wushu. Do we need another Martial arts sport?
Kung Fu fighting, just a little bit frightening!

It was mentioned that Wrestling is boring and Wushu has about a million more hits than wrestling on YouTube. So maybe that's the way to go picking sports for the IOC. Counting hits on YouTube. They did not say how many hits it takes to fill the Albert Hall :evil:


So YouTube hits is the new criteria. Is synchronized Gangnam Style due in the next Olympics?
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby jeremyp » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:31 am

Conor Dary wrote:Well, if wrestling made Rumsfeld the man he is today, then I am all for getting rid of it.

Well there are the things we know about wrestling, the things we think we know about it and the knowable unknowable things.....it's messy. Just saying.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby noone » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:27 am

DrJay wrote:
Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?


I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.


I think especially we, as aficionados of a "niche sport", should be very careful about calling sports we don't understand "silly", lest someone call hammer throwing silly.

I personally think the best way to make the Olympics a bit smaller is to reduce the number of similar events:
In swimming, it is not unusual to see the same athlete win the 50m, 100m and 200m free, the various relays, and sometimes the butterfly which seems to call for a similar skill set. This is why people who know little about sports say "OMG, Mark Spitz (or Michael Phelps) is the world's greatest athlete, he won 18 gold medals". Also, one could cut down on the number of weight classes in boxing, wrestling and weightlifting. If they had only (say) six events in boxing, people might even take note of the winners and they would be more famous than now.
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Re: No wrestling in 2020 Olympics

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:12 pm

noone wrote:
DrJay wrote:
Powell wrote:Be honest... how many of you lamenting wrestling's fate actually watched any wrestling during the last OG?


I also watched no synchronized diving nor rhythmic gymastics, but think those are silly sports that should get the ax.


I think especially we, as aficionados of a "niche sport", should be very careful about calling sports we don't understand "silly", lest someone call hammer throwing silly.

I personally think the best way to make the Olympics a bit smaller is to reduce the number of similar events:
In swimming, it is not unusual to see the same athlete win the 50m, 100m and 200m free, the various relays, and sometimes the butterfly which seems to call for a similar skill set. This is why people who know little about sports say "OMG, Mark Spitz (or Michael Phelps) is the world's greatest athlete, he won 18 gold medals". Also, one could cut down on the number of weight classes in boxing, wrestling and weightlifting. If they had only (say) six events in boxing, people might even take note of the winners and they would be more famous than now.


Cut down on Swimming events? Are you some kind of Socialist? NBC is probably right now demanding more Swimming events. After all they are tailored made for the American Public since Americans win most of them anyways, and will for the next century.
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