TBO is Gonna Get You


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TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:54 pm

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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby andyjgt » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:05 pm

As Aleksey Vorobyov said,

I'm coming to get you.

I expect someone other than SRR and TBO to win WC gold.

(Antoninakins...!)
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby JumboElliott » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:20 pm

I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby eldanielfire » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:57 pm

JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has done that how often in the past couple of years?

What exactly does TBO stand for anyway?
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby eldanielfire » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:24 pm

andyjgt wrote:As Aleksey Vorobyov said,

I'm coming to get you.

I expect someone other than SRR and TBO to win WC gold.

(Antoninakins...!)


Who is a "early season" contender:

Amantle Montsho - world Christine Ohuruogu and SSR I think proved sthey are better when it matters
Antonina Krivoshapka becoming a serial choker, her tactics make a young SSR look the model of restraint. However hse has the potential
Yuliya Gushchina Antonina but done it for longer
ALison Felix - I don't think she will return to the 400m considering how it messed up her 200m and how much more success doubling with the 100m was for her Olympic dream.

Other outsiders who might make an impact:

Francena McCorory (should be getting better)
DeeDee Trotter (A bit late in the day)
Moa Hjelmer (European champion and developing quickly in a country known for getting the most of of their elite athletes)
Alina Lohvynenko (These Ukrainian girls are starting to make a big impact on T&F)
Kseniya Ustalova - The newest 400m Russian beauty. Poor 2012 might motivate her further. Started the indoor well.
Ksenia Zadorina (Anotehr Russian newbie'ish who cna step-up)
Emily Diamond - Britains newest 400m runner, only started last year after beig a 200m runner.
Those Jamaican girls.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:31 am

JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby JumboElliott » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:32 am

You're right mump, she only ran 49.00.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby bignate88 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:49 am

I understand the fact that TBO's strategy worked for her in 07 and 08, but did it really take until just recently for her to realize that her race plan wasn't sure-fire? :lol:
I do hope this change in race plan will yield some consistently fast times from her this season
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:52 pm

JumboElliott wrote:You're right mump,


i usually am :wink:
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby Jon » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:16 pm

mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.
She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships
Sanya has never run a season's best (let alone a PB) at a championships.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby bignate88 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:40 pm

Jon wrote:
mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.
She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships
Sanya has never run a season's best (let alone a PB) at a championships.

Technically she has. Her 49.00 in the Berlin WC final was a season best until she went on to run her 2 sub 49s at the end of the season
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:36 pm

mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

But CO has never run low 49. Why would she start doing so?
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:14 pm

ATK wrote:
mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

But CO has never run low 49. Why would she start doing so?


Have you bothered to read the premise of this whole thread ? :?
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:22 pm

mump boy wrote:
ATK wrote:
mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

But CO has never run low 49. Why would she start doing so?


Have you bothered to read the premise of this whole thread ? :?

If you mean her changing her racing tactics, question still stands as a direct response to your statement on SRR.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby iain » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:41 am

ATK wrote:
mump boy wrote:MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

But CO has never run low 49. Why would she start doing so?


Have you bothered to read the premise of this whole thread ? :?[/quote]
If you mean her changing her racing tactics, question still stands as a direct response to your statement on SRR.[/quote]

Because CO has changed / is changing her tactics and SRR isn't?
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby jab2g12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:18 am

In all honestly do you believe TBO will beat a healthy SRR, she has surpassed her "choking days" and is oozing with confidence after the OG'S expect big things from her this year such as a new AR, sub 22 and sub 11 again!!! 8-)
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:22 am

mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

Because she has nothing to lose now. She has Olympic gold and bronze, and World Champs gold and silver. Whatever her 200 split was in her 49.28 performance last year, she'll go at least a half-second faster. She'll run as close to 23.0 in the first 200 (if not faster) to bring the AR down where no one can touch it. She can afford to throw caution completely to the wind now, even at the risk of falling off the World Champs medal platform, because she already has a championship there and she has her Olympic gold.

I hope Allyson runs the 400 again this year. Time for Big O. to take down the U.K. NR (49.42). She's got Olympic and World Champs gold, but the NR eludes her.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:31 am

andyjgt wrote:As Aleksey Vorobyov said,

I'm coming to get you.

I expect someone other than SRR and TBO to win WC gold.

Only if Sanya and Big O. play truth-or-dare for NRs, and all that running in the heats cramps their all-or-nothing efforts in the final. If they blow their tires and Allyson runs, Allyson will win. If Allyson is not in the race, I think Francena McCorory will be the big surprise.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:57 am

Lets be honest in this debate. We nether how much better TBO (I still don't know exactly what that means BTW :? :? :? ) will get. I say better because given her injuries and the fact she only tried her new approach without training and got better rapidly. We also don't know what SRRs motivation will be like now she achieved her dream and what distraction her reality TV stuff will be like and how much she will put into the 200m running, the combo of the 400m/200m wreaked Felix in 2011, it's not an easy double to have success in. The only thing I'm fairly sure of is Sanya won't risk dropping a sub-49 in a championship final and blowing up and Ohuruoghu has better times in her.

This of course makes their rivalary exciting, too many new variables to determine who will come out on top this year, to many unknowns to be sure of anything and it could go either way. One thing I will say is I believe the World Champions will be between Christine and Sanya if both are fit and healthy. I don't think Montsho is the big championship calliber of those two.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 am

eldanielfire wrote:The only thing I'm fairly sure of is Sanya won't risk dropping a sub-49 in a championship final and blowing up and Ohuruoghu has better times in her.

So your saying Sanya couldn't have run a 48.99 in Berlin?
Last edited by ATK on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby t_monk » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:11 am

ATK wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:The only thing I'm fairly sure of is Sanya won't risk dropping a sub-49 in a championship final and blowing up and Ohuruoghu has better times in her.

Sanya ran a sub 49 race in Berlin. She celebrated and jumped across the line.
So your saying Sanya couldn't have run a 48.99 in Berlin?


She ran 49.00 though....
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:26 am

t_monk wrote:
ATK wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:The only thing I'm fairly sure of is Sanya won't risk dropping a sub-49 in a championship final and blowing up and Ohuruoghu has better times in her.

Sanya ran a sub 49 race in Berlin. She celebrated and jumped across the line.
So your saying Sanya couldn't have run a 48.99 in Berlin?


She ran 49.00 though....

Point is she clearly ran a sub 49 second RACE.

eldanielfile is giving the impression that she would die and risk losing if she ran a 48s race because of her pre 2009 tactics.

Its like Bolt in Beijing, or Mo in Edmonton...Yea their times are set in stone, but everyone knows their races were worth more if they didn't celebrate or get hurt respectively...
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby LopenUupunut » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:08 am

eldanielfire wrote:TBO (I still don't know exactly what that means BTW :? :? :? )
It's short for The Big O.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:00 am

ATK wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:The only thing I'm fairly sure of is Sanya won't risk dropping a sub-49 in a championship final and blowing up and Ohuruoghu has better times in her.

So your saying Sanya couldn't have run a 48.99 in Berlin?



It's about risk, not ability though. It's not a case of "she could if she wants too", it's a case of "If she tries it she might blow up and lose to gain absolutely nothing of importance". She isn't likley to run a world record at the moment so times are irrevelant in Championships, it's all about getting gold.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby Speedster » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:06 am

A passionate debate as always from two athletes who have been controversial in the success and failure.

The 400m is still a sprint event and if Christine can drop her 100/200m PBs this season, significantly, I think going out harder might bring her more success. I read that she is racing more this year which means she could test out a new race plan in Diamond League races with increased pressure and competition.

That said, SRR still has the edge as her speed is that much better and she now has the Olympic Gold to complete her set of medals. I'd love to see her just run the 200m so see what's she is capable of but I think she'll double again.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:58 am

mump boy wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:I highly doubt Sanya is going to run as conservatively as she did in the Olympic final next year. If she's in shape, I expect her to run under 49.


She has NEVER run under 49 at a championships i don't know why she would start doing so next year

MAybe with her new race strategy and racing plan TBO will be running under 49 anyway :P She's certainly worth low 49's

What the heck is the meaning of "she's certainly worth low 49s", nonsensical phrase.TBO aint a piece of pottery or a painting!!
In track and field you have achieved or you have not achieved a specific time , espececially after 6 years at the top with OG Gold and Silver... being "worth" some time is a meaningless concept.... Does Mump think she WILL run under 49 or WILL run low 49s, if so, for goodness sake say so... but then sitting on the fence with "can" or "may" or "is capable of" is so much easier than a firm prediction
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:06 am

Speedster wrote:A passionate debate as always from two athletes who have been controversial in the success and failure.

The 400m is still a sprint event and if Christine can drop her 100/200m PBs this season, significantly, I think going out harder might bring her more success. I read that she is racing more this year which means she could test out a new race plan in Diamond League races with increased pressure and competition.

That said, SRR still has the edge as her speed is that much better and she now has the Olympic Gold to complete her set of medals. I'd love to see her just run the 200m so see what's she is capable of but I think she'll double again.


Of course the differences in their style is interesting, SSR is more speed dependent and it's possible her speed will be on the decline in the next few years, TBO is more an even paced runner with tons of Speed endurance. When they hit their 30's I would expect Christine to be able to consistently run the 400m faster than Sanya regardless, it's just a case of when will Richards-Ross speed start declining enough? Will it be soon or in a couple of years.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:38 am

For someone whose speed might decline in the next few years, the recent trend is rather different.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:01 am

eldanielfire wrote:TBO is more an even paced

Hardly.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:40 pm

26mi235 wrote:For someone whose speed might decline in the next few years, the recent trend is rather different.

Sanya could conceivably maintain her top level in the 400 for the rest of this decade. Highly likely that she'll lose her mojo in the 100 and 200 before age starts to cramp her ability to break 50.00...

...That is, assuming you use Jarmila Kratochvílová as a benchmark to determine Sanya's longevity in the 400. Kratochvílová ran 47.99/1:53.28 at age 32, in a year (1983) when she could only muster 22.40.

There might come a point where Sanya might have trouble breaking 22.50, but a 23.7 opening split in the 400 will become even more comfortable for her. If I'm not mistaken, Jearl Miles-Clark never broke 23.00 in the 200, but her 400 PR was 49.40 (1997). She was almost 31 then, and she ran 49.98 a month short of her 33rd birthday. Sanya will be in good shape for the rest of this decade.

What is Big O's 200 PR? Assuming she has yet to break 22.80, getting even closer to 49.00 (or at least the U.K. NR) could be a much bigger burden for her with regard to the second-half of her race.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby Gabriella » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:56 pm

I always preferred TBOs approach in 2008 when she ran 100s and 200s and came into Beijing as a bit of an enigma. Firstly it means she's focused and practiced on speed and secondly it leaves the other women guessing. When she competes on the circuit she shows her hand and the other women know they can beat her. But when she doesn't run 400s they will be wondering about her.

SRR has had a long time at the top of elite 400m running going back to 2004 and that is unusual at that distance. She has to be in the wane soon but she probably still has a couple of years at the top. In the last 2 Olympics and 3 world champs TBO has 2 golds and a silver and SRR has 2 golds and a bronze so they have dominated the big meets between them.

You would think that being in Moscow one of the Russian women has to be a potential gold medalist but there will also be the defending champ in Montsho, a more relaxed SRR with no demons and a focused TBO in what could be her last season.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:06 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
What is Big O's 200 PR? Assuming she has yet to break 22.80, getting even closer to 49.00 (or at least the U.K. NR) could be a much bigger burden for her with regard to the second-half of her race.


It's 22.85

She's ran 60m and 200m at uk trials this weekend in 7.58 (pb 7.39) and 23.58 which is faster than she's run outdoors since 2009 when she ran then quite frequently early season
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby peach77 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:41 am

Gabriella wrote:I always preferred TBOs approach in 2008 when she ran 100s and 200s and came into Beijing as a bit of an enigma. Firstly it means she's focused and practiced on speed and secondly it leaves the other women guessing. When she competes on the circuit she shows her hand and the other women know they can beat her. But when she doesn't run 400s they will be wondering about her.


But it doesn't really make any difference what the women think or know...because when it comes to the Championships, she is always entirely ready. She was an enigma back in 08, sure, but as we all seem to bang on about every time a Championships rolls around, it is only a complete fool who writes off The Big O at a Games- and I really don't think many of the women will ever do that again, no matter what happens on the circuit...
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:17 am

peach77 wrote:But it doesn't really make any difference what the women think or know...because when it comes to the Championships, she is always entirely ready. She was an enigma back in 08, sure, but as we all seem to bang on about every time a Championships rolls around, it is only a complete fool who writes off The Big O at a Games- and I really don't think many of the women will ever do that again, no matter what happens on the circuit...

I think the idea that she is always a Championship performer is a little over hyped. Yes she usually runs her best at championships, but she hasn't always performed well.

2007, 2008, and 2012 were her great years
2004, 2005, 2009, and 2011 were not...
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby mump boy » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:25 am

ATK wrote:
peach77 wrote:But it doesn't really make any difference what the women think or know...because when it comes to the Championships, she is always entirely ready. She was an enigma back in 08, sure, but as we all seem to bang on about every time a Championships rolls around, it is only a complete fool who writes off The Big O at a Games- and I really don't think many of the women will ever do that again, no matter what happens on the circuit...

I think the idea that she is always a Championship performer is a little over hyped. Yes she usually runs her best at championships, but she hasn't always performed well.

2007, 2008, and 2012 were her great years
2004, 2005, 2009, and 2011 were not...


She has run a pb or SB at every championships she has ever run at apart from 11 when she was DQ'd

In 04, at 20, she ran 50.50 at the OG, in 05 her main aim was the Euro under 23, she came 2nd by .01 to Olga Zaytzeva in a SB, In 06 she won the CWG in a PB of 50.28 in 09 she was injured but ran 50.22 for 5th.

You don't always have to wins a medal to perform well !!
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby ATK » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:25 am

mump boy wrote:
ATK wrote:I think the idea that she is always a Championship performer is a little over hyped. Yes she usually runs her best at championships, but she hasn't always performed well.

2007, 2008, and 2012 were her great years
2004, 2005, 2009, and 2011 were not...


She has run a pb or SB at every championships she has ever run at apart from 11 when she was DQ'd

In 04, at 20, she ran 50.50 at the OG, in 05 her main aim was the Euro under 23, she came 2nd by .01 to Olga Zaytzeva in a SB, In 06 she won the CWG in a PB of 50.28 in 09 she was injured but ran 50.22 for 5th.

You don't always have to wins a medal to perform well !!

CO is an Olympic and World Champion, not a small time athlete. In terms of achievements and performance at the major meets were talking SRR, Williams-Darling, Ana Guevara comparable.

I see CO is in the position of If she does well its a huge success and praise, if she does average or below, its not a surprise because her runs during the season usually never indicate anything special to come.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby nevetsllim » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:39 am

ATK wrote:
peach77 wrote:But it doesn't really make any difference what the women think or know...because when it comes to the Championships, she is always entirely ready. She was an enigma back in 08, sure, but as we all seem to bang on about every time a Championships rolls around, it is only a complete fool who writes off The Big O at a Games- and I really don't think many of the women will ever do that again, no matter what happens on the circuit...

I think the idea that she is always a Championship performer is a little over hyped. Yes she usually runs her best at championships, but she hasn't always performed well.

2007, 2008, and 2012 were her great years
2004, 2005, 2009, and 2011 were not...


Nine of her ten best times at 400m have all been achieved in major championships and the other one was achieved at the World Athletics Final. This is a record you cannot argue with and one very few athletes can match.

2004 was pretty much Ohuruogu's first year as a full-time athlete after focusing on netball and she dropped her PB from outside 54sec down to 50.50 in the Olympics (and 50.98 just before the Games). Ohuruogu's focus in 2005 was the European Under-23 Champs and she set her season's best in the final before anchoring Britain to a medal in the 4x400m final at the World Champs. She was injured in 2009 but still lowered her season's best from 51.14 down to 50.35 in the SF and 50.21 in the final which surpassed most people's expectation.

2011 wasn't her best year but that's, what, one year in the past 8-9y where she hasn't performed.
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby peach77 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:18 am

I never understand why people discount TBO. She's the consummate championships performer, she's NEVER underperformed at a major games (bar the DQ) and you can bet your bottom dollar that the 400m girls all recognise the threat she poses when she lines up healthy...
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby John G » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:40 am

I always thought that CO's success was based primarily on two things:
1) She peaks to perfection (never leaves her best racing on the circuit);
2) She paces her race to perfection with relatively even-paced running.

Sounds like she may be messing with perfection. That said, she needs to somehow find fresh motivation, so good luck to her. I always felt that she had got closer to her her absolute potential than any other British athlete and I can't see her ever breaking 49.5. In terms of pure ability I don't think she's even the best British 400 runner of her generation - Nicola Sanders should have gone quicker in 2007.

To pull her new race strategy off presumably she will need to get a lot quicker over 200. In the past, she may have gone through 200 half a second or more behind SRR but in doing so she was probably as close to her 200 pb as SRR was. Can she get quicker however without messing with her training and losing some of her strength?

Can anyone think of 400 flat runner who has successfully changed tactics relatively late in their career?
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Re: TBO is Gonna Get You

Postby peach77 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:23 am

I think it's a brave move but, to be honest, she's achieved everything she wants to apart from the super fast times- so why not shake it up a bit and see what happens? It may not work but she's got a couple of seasons to try it out before she needs to think about having a crack at Rio. I'm really excited by the approach, though- she seems a different athlete this past year in terms of her effort and dedication. I wonder how much of that had to do with the injuries and realising just what it all meant to her...
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