Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid'ts?


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:30 pm

bambam wrote:He will be given a pass by the media on this, because it is the NFL, and then he will ascend into heaven.

Hmmm. . . . .

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/p ... 257567.jpg

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/up ... backer.jpg

8-)
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:32 pm

Timber!!! [ok, I missed the above...[delete]
Last edited by 26mi235 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16333
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:42 pm

26mi235 wrote:Timber!!!

Alex Rodriguez and others

Where've you been 26? You're about 12 hours late with this story. :P

viewtopic.php?p=812218#p812218
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:25 am

bambam wrote:This will be so covered up by the NFL ....

He will be given a pass by the media on this, because it is the NFL, and then he will ascend into heaven.


NFL fans care about their teams winning. They don't care at all about PEDs when it involves their players. And the pundits know this. Jim Miller, Bears' QB, tested positive about 10 years ago and missed, HORRORS, 4 games because of a suspension. It was quickly forgotten and today he is a major TV pundit in town.

The athletes that really get dumped on are the Disposable Heroes, such as LA and Marion Jones.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby gh » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:43 am

allow me to quibble with your statement slightly. It should have been written thusly:


All fans in all team games (pro or amateur) in all nations, care about their teams winning. They don't care at all about PEDs when it involves they players. And the pundits know this.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:55 pm

Yes, I agree with that. Name the TEAM sport, especially college football, and the fans don't care. Or more likely, don't want to know.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby Pego » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:01 pm

Let me join Conor Dary and gh. Who was the wise man that once observed``He may be a scoundrel, but he`s our scoundrel``?
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:32 pm

So, do these players, stripped [o]f the production from seasons where PEDs usage occurred, still make it in? Almost no one seems to think that Armstrong is treated too harshly; while these drugs were not 'illegal' within the sport during some of the time, that was only because the sport itself denied that they were part of the sport. Assuming that they are major sporting bodies, I take a WADA approach at least partially before 2003 and completely thereafter. AR has no production going forward (at a minimum an 8-year ban) and loses essentially everything after 2000. At most, a very good player for some years -- not HOF material, especially with non-stat stuff taken into consideration.
Last edited by 26mi235 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16333
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby cullman » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:26 pm

Pego wrote:Let me join Conor Dary and gh. Who was the wise man that once observed``He may be a scoundrel, but he`s our scoundrel``?

It was FDR who once said about a Latin American dictator, "he may be a sonofabitch but he's our sonofabitch". :P
cullman
 
Posts: 2065
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: ...in training...for something...

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:56 pm

Now that MLB has its own Operation Puerto known as the Biogenesis Clinic scandal, it will be interesting to see if MLB responds as agressively as the UCI did when Eufemiano Fuentes was arrested and his books were shown to have the names of scores of pro cyclists in them.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:18 am

Curt Schilling says that in 2008, five years after MLB's PED enforcement policy went into effect, illegal PED use was still being openly encouraged in the Red Sox clubhouse.

Former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling said on ESPN Radio on Wednesday that in 2008 "former members of the organization" told him performance-enhancing drugs were an option to help him get healthy and extend his career.

Schilling, who had signed a one-year contract with Boston in 2008 but did not pitch that season due to a shoulder injury, would not identify who was involved in the conversation, or whether it was a player, coach or staff member.

"At the end of my career, in 2008 when I had gotten hurt, there was a conversation that I was involved in, in which it was brought to my attention that this is a potential path I might want to pursue," Schilling, who is currently an ESPN analyst, told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd.

Schilling said the topic came up in a clubhouse conversation that could be overheard by several teammates.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/i ... -clubhouse
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:25 am


Tony Casillas says that deer antler spray is nothing compared to the stuff football players used to take back in his day.

"When I heard about deer-antler spray, I said that's nothing. We used to use this stuff called 'DMSO,'" Casillas said last week in an interview with KRLD-FM in Dallas. "That's what veterinarians put on horses' muscles and we used it in the locker room."

"We had a bottle and you'd take it. It goes right to the blood stream. I'm not sure about this deer-antler stuff, but it was prevalent in our locker room," Casillas said in the interview.

Casillas said players saw an immediate benefit from using "DMSO."

"It's an ointment that's like anti-inflammatory. You put it on your skin and you put it on a muscle, and I guarantee you, in about 30 minutes you'd feel great," he said, adding that "people knew" players were using it.

"Everyone knew about it."

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/i ... nfl-career
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:27 am

DMSO! Boy, does that bring back memories in Eugene years ago. Salazar use to drown himself in that stuff.

And speaking of the old days, in today's NYTimes...

    Walt Sweeney, an All-Pro guard for the San Diego Chargers in the 1960s and ’70s who accused the team of handing out drugs to players and fostering his own addiction, died on Saturday at his home in San Diego. He was 71.

    “My drug addiction is directly related to the game,” he wrote in a memoir published in 2012. “It was the San Diego Chargers trainers and doctors who gave pregame amphetamines to rev me up, postgame sedatives to bring me down, pain killers as ‘needed’ and steroids, said to be vitamins, for better health. I considered taking drugs as normal for game-day preparation as putting on my game face.”

    He claimed he had been given prescription drugs regularly for his entire career. Players were fined if they did not take steroids, he said, and many other pills were made available. (In an email on Wednesday, a Chargers spokesman said the team had no information on its drug policies of the 1970s.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/sport ... .html?_r=0
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:15 pm

If Sweeney's story is true, it sounds worse than anything that went on cycling since I never heard of cyclists getting fined for not doping. However, the NFL will invoke the statute of limitations claim, a la the IOC and East Germany, and see no evil and hear no evil. However, it's going to be a lot harder for MLB to sweep Schilling's claims under the rug since he's talking about things that happened less than five years ago.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10860
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:45 pm

Conor Dary wrote:And speaking of the old days, in today's NYTimes...

    Walt Sweeney, an All-Pro guard for the San Diego Chargers in the 1960s and ’70s who accused the team of handing out drugs to players and fostering his own addiction, died on Saturday at his home in San Diego. He was 71...

    He claimed he had been given prescription drugs regularly for his entire career. Players were fined if they did not take steroids, he said, and many other pills were made available. (In an email on Wednesday, a Chargers spokesman said the team had no information on its drug policies of the 1970s.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/sport ... .html?_r=0


"His whole career" began in 1963! So another wake-up call to those who under the delusion that PEDs in sports are somehow an '80s-90s thing, or maybe a '70s-and-on thing. Further, we know that none of this simply popped out of the woodwork in the summer of 1963; there's a history leading up to that point.
kuha
 
Posts: 9034
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby gh » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 pm

Conor Dary wrote:DMSO! Boy, does that bring back memories in Eugene years ago. Salazar use to drown himself in that stuff....


And since it's not on anybody's banned list he was/is free to do so, as is everybody else. Given that it's a by-product of the kraft paper process, it shouldn't be surprising that it would be popular in the state of Oregon.

I remember an between-periods interview on the CBS's Hockey Night In Canada back in the mid'60s in which the player said something and the interviewer got a funny look on his face and backed away, and the player said, somewhat abashedly (and I paraphrase), "Oh, sorry, eh! That DMSO stuff really gives you breath like garlic dip."

Bottom line is that DMSO doesn't belong in a discussion of PEDs and bringing it up in that context only casts aspersions on the users thereof.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:31 pm

gh wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:DMSO! Boy, does that bring back memories in Eugene years ago. Salazar use to drown himself in that stuff....


And since it's not on anybody's banned list he was/is free to do so, as is everybody else. Given that it's a by-product of the kraft paper process, it shouldn't be surprising that it would be popular in the state of Oregon.

I remember an between-periods interview on the CBS's Hockey Night In Canada back in the mid'60s in which the player said something and the interviewer got a funny look on his face and backed away, and the player said, somewhat abashedly (and I paraphrase), "Oh, sorry, eh! That DMSO stuff really gives you breath like garlic dip."

Bottom line is that DMSO doesn't belong in a discussion of PEDs and bringing it up in that context only casts aspersions on the users thereof.


I never implied it was illegal. Hell, I even tried it once, primarily because Alberto seemed to swear by it. But it made your breath awful and I don't think it worked anyways. And I agree it has no business in a PED discussion and frankly I was surprised anyone else would since it always seem to me more like some sort of Ben-Gay ointment.

But it was popular in Eugene. A Kraft by-product? I didn't know that. You mean sort of like Velveeta?
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby kuha » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:53 pm

The larger issue here is that there is a rich history of things perceived to be P E. The D is a more recent addition, and one open to some revision over the years.
kuha
 
Posts: 9034
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: Who Do You Think Merits Cooperstown fr. Today's Candid't

Postby dj » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:52 am

Here's one article that traces PED use to Bob Hoffman and York (Pa.) Barbells: http://pabook.libraries.psu.edu/palitma ... rbell.html

The story ignores the simultaneous(?) impact of the the body building community centered on the southern California beaches. And there is no discussion of individual experimentation throughout the country.
dj
 
Posts: 6200
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests