Richard III is found.....


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:15 am

Apparently those bones found under a parking lot in Leicester, England really are those of the last king of the House of York.

"A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!"

    In one of Britain’s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, researchers here announced on Monday that skeletal remains found under a parking lot in this English Midlands city were those of King Richard III, for centuries the most widely reviled of English monarchs, paving the way for a possible reassessment of his brief but violent reign.

    Richard Buckley, the lead archaeologist on a project to identify the bones, told reporters that tests and research since the remains were discovered last September proved “beyond reasonable doubt” that the “individual exhumed” from a makeshift grave under the parking lot was “indeed Richard III, the last Plantagenet king of England.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/world ... nted=print
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Marlow » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:22 am

Conor Dary wrote:King Richard III, for centuries the most widely reviled of English monarchs

Hold the phones!
Wiki wrote:However, the debate about Richard's true character and motives continues, both because of the subjectivity of many of the written sources, reflecting the generally partisan nature of writers of this period, and because of the fact that none were written by men with an intimate knowledge of Richard, even if they had met him in person.[55]
During Richard's reign, the historian John Rous praised him as a "good lord" who punished "oppressors of the commons", adding that he had "a great heart".[56][57] After his death, Richard's image was tarnished by propaganda fostered by his Tudor successors, culminating in the famous portrayal of him in Shakespeare's play Richard III as a physically deformed machiavellian villain, albeit courageous and witty, cheerfully committing numerous murders in order to claw his way to power.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:26 am

I have spent a lot of time in York. And the consensus, I felt, is he got a raw deal from Shakespeare.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:39 am

And Obama thinks his enemies don't like him......

    Richard died at Bosworth on 22 August 1485, the last English king to fall in battle, and the researchers revealed how for the first time. There was an audible intake of breath as a slide came up showing the base of his skull sliced off by one terrible blow, believed to be from a halberd, a fearsome medieval battle weapon with a razor-sharp iron axe blade weighing about two kilos, mounted on a wooden pole, which was swung at Richard at very close range. The blade probably penetrated several centimetres into his brain and, said the human bones expert Jo Appleby, he would have been unconscious at once and dead almost as soon.

    The injury appears to confirm contemporary accounts that he died in close combat in the thick of the battle and unhorsed – as in the great despairing cry Shakespeare gives him: "A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse!"

    Another sword slash, which also went through the bone and into the brain, would also have proved fatal. But many of the other injuries were after death, suggesting a gruesome ritual on the battlefield and as the king's body was brought back to Leicester, as he was stripped, mocked and mutilated...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/ ... intcmp=122
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Daisy » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:45 am

Marlow wrote:Hold the phones!
Wiki wrote:culminating in the famous portrayal of him in Shakespeare's play Richard III as a physically deformed machiavellian villain[/u], albeit courageous and witty

The physically deformed bit appears to be true, from the look of the skeletons curved spine.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:49 am

Daisy wrote:
Marlow wrote:Hold the phones!
Wiki wrote:culminating in the famous portrayal of him in Shakespeare's play Richard III as a physically deformed machiavellian villain[/u], albeit courageous and witty

The physically deformed bit appears to be true, from the look of the skeletons curved spine.


Continuing the Guardian article...

    ...which would have revealed for the first time to any but his closest intimates the twisted back, a condition from an unknown cause, which began to contort his body from the age of about 10. By the time he died he would have stood inches shorter than his true height of 5' 8", tall for a medieval man. The bones were those of an unusually slight, delicately built man – Appleby described him as having an "almost feminine" build – which also matches contemporary descriptions.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Marlow » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:44 am

Conor Dary wrote:Continuing the Guardian article...
    ...which would have revealed for the first time to any but his closest intimates the twisted back, a condition from an unknown cause, which began to contort his body from the age of about 10. By the time he died he would have stood inches shorter than his true height of 5' 8", tall for a medieval man. The bones were those of an unusually slight, delicately built man – Appleby described him as having an "almost feminine" build – which also matches contemporary descriptions.

I just saw the skeleton - that's one messed up spine. How on earth did he fight in armor on a battle field (apparently not so well)?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Pego » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:15 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Continuing the Guardian article...
    ...which would have revealed for the first time to any but his closest intimates the twisted back, a condition from an unknown cause, which began to contort his body from the age of about 10. By the time he died he would have stood inches shorter than his true height of 5' 8", tall for a medieval man. The bones were those of an unusually slight, delicately built man – Appleby described him as having an "almost feminine" build – which also matches contemporary descriptions.

I just saw the skeleton - that's one messed up spine. How on earth did he fight in armor on a battle field (apparently not so well)?


From the little I saw, it looks like an idiopathic scoliosis. It would fit the above description as it develops in the second decade of life.
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby br » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:49 am

Richard III's reconstructed face to go on show in Leicester.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/R ... story.html

The reconstructed face of Richard III is to go on display in Leicester next year.

The facial reconstruction, which was created by Professor Caroline Wilkinson of the University of Dundee, was seen for the first time on Channel 4 last night.
br
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby br » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 am

Should Richard III Receive a Catholic Burial?

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstt ... ic-burial/

Plans are underway to re-inter the bones in the city’s Anglican Cathedral. Not so fast, say some: the hunchback king wasn’t a Protestant, but a Catholic, and he requires a Catholic burial. In fact, as Shakespeare fans know, Richard died at Bosworth Field (“A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse!”), defending his throne from Henry Tudor. Henry went on to reign as Henry VII; his son, Henry VIII, broke with Rome. As The Tablet’s blog argued this morning, “Had Richard prevailed at the Battle of Bosworth Field, there would have been no Henry VII, therefore no Henry VIII and no Reformation. England today might still be a Catholic country.” Think of it: no Reformation, no Established Church, no Archbishop Laud, no Puritans, no Great Migration — no Massachusetts! — and no Establishment Clause. Surely there’s a law review article in there somewhere.
br
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Master Po » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:03 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:King Richard III, for centuries the most widely reviled of English monarchs

Hold the phones!
Wiki wrote:However, the debate about Richard's true character and motives continues, both because of the subjectivity of many of the written sources, reflecting the generally partisan nature of writers of this period, and because of the fact that none were written by men with an intimate knowledge of Richard, even if they had met him in person.[55]
During Richard's reign, the historian John Rous praised him as a "good lord" who punished "oppressors of the commons", adding that he had "a great heart".[56][57] After his death, Richard's image was tarnished by propaganda fostered by his Tudor successors, culminating in the famous portrayal of him in Shakespeare's play Richard III as a physically deformed machiavellian villain, albeit courageous and witty, cheerfully committing numerous murders in order to claw his way to power.



This is an interesting story that I have been following outside this forum, and this is an interesting thread -- as many of these non-t&f threads often are. However, when I read the article here, I found myself thinking this description sounded like a guy who could have been a candidate for USATF CEO...
:wink:
Master Po
 
Posts: 2641
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: north coast USA

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Marlow » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 am

br wrote:Richard III's reconstructed face to go on show in Leicester.

I have never understood this concept. One's eyes are the most important part of a face and there's no way you can get that right from the occipital bone!! The brow, chin, cheekbones, sure, but lips, ears, lips, lower nose shape - no! There are just too many ways the soft tissues form.
I'm guessing she looked at this painting of him and went with that.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... 7l-Z24CSfo
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Cooter Brown » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:29 am

Marlow wrote:
br wrote:Richard III's reconstructed face to go on show in Leicester.

I have never understood this concept. One's eyes are the most important part of a face and there's no way you can get that right from the occipital bone!! The brow, chin, cheekbones, sure, but lips, ears, lips, lower nose shape - no! There are just too many ways the soft tissues form.
I'm guessing she looked at this painting of him and went with that.


I'd love to see a comparison for someone where there's photographs of them to see how accurate this is.
Cooter Brown
 
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Austin

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby gh » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:05 pm

The shocking reality behind the find:

http://www.sfgate.com/columns/badreport ... to-4143665
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:51 am

Yea, I forgot Burger King is over 500 years old...
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Marlow » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:35 am

Conor Dary wrote:Yea, I forgot Burger King is over 500 years old...

In the few times that I have patronized that establishment, the burger tasted at least that old.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:48 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Yea, I forgot Burger King is over 500 years old...

In the few times that I have patronized that establishment, the burger tasted at least that old.


Contrary to legend the Battle of Bosworth Field had nothing to do with the War of the Roses, but rather irate customers in the Midlands who were upset with lousy hamburgers. Richard III tried to appease them with free fries, or chips we should say, but the damage had been done.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby br » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:57 am

From the L.A. Times Op-Ed...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 6154.story

Who was Richard III?

We've got an idea of what he looked like thanks to a new 3-D reconstruction of his head, made after the discovery of his skull, along with the rest of his skeleton, under a parking lot in Leicester, England.

But what kind of person he was remains in dispute. Was the king, who died at 32 in the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485, an emerging democrat and saintly protector? Or was he the "poisonous bunch-backed toad" of Shakespeare's "Richard III," an ogre who murdered his brother's sons and stole the crown, making him the most notorious usurper in English history?

The truth is, we know little about him, which leaves plenty of room for projecting ideas and emotions...
br
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Richard III is found.....

Postby tandfman » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:41 am

tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests