1500/Mile records for Cain [split]


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1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby gh » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:52 pm

aaronk wrote:....
Slaney should go to NYC to be present when Cain breaks the records, just as was suggested about Heald!!


Are you volunteering to provide the thousand-odd dollars it would cost her to take a weekend in NYC?
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:14 pm

Mary Cain 4:32.78

ah, who's on the cover of the mag next
she just performs over and over again..

and her finish, at the next level that's what she needs

millrose mile..sub 4:30?????
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby aaronk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:30 pm

1st four were:

1. Sarah Bowman.......4:31.61
2. Nicole Sifuentes.....4:31.65
3. Mary Cain............4:32.78
4. Heather Wilson.....4:34.59

Were they timed at the 1500 mark??
If so, Mary certainly smashed the HSR there!!
(Probably hit it at about 4:15??)

If she was NOT timed at the 1500 (officially!!), the Armory and New Balance people should be ASHAMED of themselves!!!!
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:41 pm

with all the hype the put into the race, NOT to have the 1500 time would seem very odd

ifnot get the 1500 at the millrose

her 2 mile in boston should be scary as the mile for milrose
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby guru » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:48 pm

4:16.11 @ 1500m, HSR, AJR


As I said over on the other thread, with three years to go, it's fair to start thinking indoor junior world record(s)
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby tandfman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:53 pm

I just saw a tweet that said that in the morning, Cain took the SATs. Busy day, eh?
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:56 pm

cain is an exceptional student so the sats were the easy part of her day??
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby aaronk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:57 pm

Her lap splits and 880 yard splits:

67.3
69.4
71.3
64.78 final lap!!

2:16.7
2:16.08!!
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby 18.99s » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:25 pm

aaronk wrote:Her lap splits and 880 yard splits:

67.3
69.4
71.3
64.78 final lap!!

Final two laps, right? It's indoors.
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby aaronk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:29 pm

18.99s wrote:
aaronk wrote:Her lap splits and 880 yard splits:

67.3
69.4
71.3
64.78 final lap!!

Final two laps, right? It's indoors.


Nit-nit-nit-NIT pick!!! :lol:
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby aaronk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:20 pm

One more item of trivia on Cain's race:

She had the fastest 1500 to mile finish of all the runners!!

Bowman took 16.90 for that final 109.1 meters.
Sifuentes took 16.80.
Mary took 16.67!!

So while she ended in third, she was sprinting faster at the end than the first two!!

BTW, Craig Miller, in his 3:56.90 today, took 16.37 for his final segment, just 0.30 faster than Cain, despite his mile being 36 seconds faster!!
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:58 am

http://ny.milesplit.com/videos?id=32829

here's the whole race

enjoyit, bowman was happy too, nice to be healthy
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby unclezadok » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:04 am

Just watched the video, and it just dawned on me that Bowman's winning time was really good, for a pro athlete!
Mary never really got to lane one until the sprint, but I guess that's not unusual, especially indoors.
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:29 am

Sheila Reid, 4:30.41 WL in the mile yesterday at Penn State.

saw the interview after te race posted on the front talking about t dibaba and being in the moment

mixing it up with top talent next weekend, we;re talking about world class talent

for me,too fast is a big chance, and then blowing up end of race

but if she enjoys the moment, who knows what tha record could be end of race

t didaba will make the pace fast enough, along with the other big girls
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby no one » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:01 pm

I am continually impressed with Cain. I haven't seen a bad race (or heard). Hss good range (1500 TO 5K XC) and a big heart, is finishing strong vs pros and college. Not quite in Mary Decker Slaney class yet. Slaney was, as you prob know, running @ international level at very young (younger than Cain) age. And Slaney's form was wonderful to watch. Be that as it may - I am a Mary Cain fan. Hopefully fewer injuries than Mary. What a great talent to watch
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby gh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:35 pm

Here's a wow stat for you: Cain's mile time would be good enough to put her No. 8 on the all-time list of American-born collegians.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby gh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:54 pm

and another..... Cain's 1500 time is just over 10 seconds faster than USATF's ratified outdoor Youth Record in the 1500 (held by Ceci Hopp)
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby dj » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:16 pm

aaronk wrote:
18.99s wrote:
aaronk wrote:Her lap splits and 880 yard splits:

67.3
69.4
71.3
64.78 final lap!!

Final two laps, right? It's indoors.


Nit-nit-nit-NIT pick!!! :lol:


To pick the nits a little finer, those are quarter-mile splits, not every two laps (400m). Cain's last 200m was 31.2.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby gh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:32 pm

And the final 440 is 64.8, not 64.78; you can't subtract a hand time from an auto time and get an auto-timed result.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby az2004 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:54 pm

great job by gh editting this tread

her olympic trial 800 were at her weaker distance, and i was satisfied with her runs

also saw her race the penn relayes dmr as a frosh and she splitt the a very fast anchor leg, and that's when i thought she had unlimited potential

what salazar has done has blown me away

cain's last lap at pemm last year was 62.5 so there's more room in her training
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby aaronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:09 pm

Can't wait until next Saturday!!
Cain going up against Tirunish Dibaba and Co!!

Okay, so Cain WILL lose!!
No doubt about that!

BUT.....
she'll almost certainly SMASH both the HSR for the indoor 3K and 2 mile....
she COULD run well under 9:00, maybe as fast as 8:45....
she'll be the STAR of the show....just as Alan Webb was at the Pre meet in 2001, even though finishing 5th to El Guerrouj!!

If Dibaba runs 8:25ish, Cain will be WAYYYY back, but probably NOT lapped!!
If Dibaba runs "only" 8:35ish, Cain could well be "in the mix" for a "medal" (top 3 places).

I say this because of something Cain said in a post-race interview yesterday.
She said (paraphrased)......"I hope to be within 100 meters of Dibaba when she finishes, applauding her...."!!
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby az2004 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:22 pm

i think 8:55 is rrealistic next week for 3k



the problem will be the field will get spread out and will she be able toget proper pacing

and with all the ethiopians attending it'll be a real international feel
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby unclezadok » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:42 pm

She seems to be a prodigy not only as to running talent, but also as to pace judgment and tactics. It's also unusual for a runner of this age to be such a big kicker. And she seems to ENJOY the whole thing so much.
I have no idea what to expect. I'll just sit back and enjoy it myself.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Jon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:49 pm

gh wrote:and another..... Cain's 1500 time is just over 10 seconds faster than USATF's ratified outdoor Youth Record in the 1500 (held by Ceci Hopp)
Wouldn't the outdoor US youth record be Cain's own 4:11.01 from last year's World Junior Champs?
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby tandfman » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:10 pm

USATF ratifies as youth records only peformances made in USATF Youth Athletics or Junior Olympic competition. A mark like Cain's, even though it was set while running for a USATF team, is not eligible to be a USATF Youth record. It's similar to the official National Federation High School records, which can be set only in certain high school competion.
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby Jon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:14 pm

guru wrote:4:16.11 @ 1500m, HSR, AJR
It would have been interesting to see what Darlene Beckford's 1500m split was en route to her 4:32.30 mile.

Also, I don't believe it's been mentioned anywhere else yet (despite all the talk about her performance on various sites), but Cain's mile time is a world youth indoor best - although obviously the top youth Chinese/Ethiopian/Kenyan middle-distance runners have never had a chance to run an indoor mile.

Trying to find out where her 4:16.11 ranks among youths indoors all-time...
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Jon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:15 pm

tandfman wrote:USATF ratifies as youth records only peformances made in USATF Youth Athletics or Junior Olympic competition. A mark like Cain's, even though it was set while running for a USATF team, is not eligible to be a USATF Youth record. It's similar to the official National Federation High School records, which can be set only in certain high school competion.
Is USATF's definition of 'youth' the same as the IAAF's (i.e. under-18)? I guess it's fair to say that although her 4:11 might not be a "ratified USATF youth record", it is still an American youth record.
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby unclezadok » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:29 pm

Jon wrote:
guru wrote:4:16.11 @ 1500m, HSR, AJR
It would have been interesting to see what Darlene Beckford's 1500m split was en route to her 4:32.30 mile.

Also, I don't believe it's been mentioned anywhere else yet (despite all the talk about her performance on various sites), but Cain's mile time is a world youth indoor best - although obviously the top youth Chinese/Ethiopian/Kenyan middle-distance runners have never had a chance to run an indoor mile.

Trying to find out where her 4:16.11 ranks among youths indoors all-time...


Surely they must have had a chance to run an indoor mile before age 25. Oops, sorry, strike that.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:42 pm

In all of this excitement it should be noted that Debbie Heald ran on a 11 lap track back in 1972. And also won her race.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Fortius19 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:54 pm

Conor Dary wrote:In all of this excitement it should be noted that Debbie Heald ran on a 11 lap track back in 1972. And also won her race.


Interesting point.

Is there any fairly-well accepted conversion from 11 laps to the mile tracks to 8 laps to the mile tracks for a mile race?

Did the NCAA look into that one? :wink:

Any educated guesses?
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:09 pm

Conor Dary wrote:In all of this excitement it should be noted that Debbie Heald ran on a 11 lap track back in 1972. And also won her race.


With competition that included the recently minted WR holder in the 1500i, I think.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby guru » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:27 pm

Conor Dary wrote:In all of this excitement it should be noted that Debbie Heald ran on a 11 lap track back in 1972. And also won her race.



Lap short? :P
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:39 pm

Conor Dary wrote:In all of this excitement it should be noted that Debbie Heald ran on a 11 lap track back in 1972. And also won her race.


In a much larger setting.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:43 pm

az2004 wrote:i think 8:55 is rrealistic next week for 3k


Yeah....I tend to agree with this moreso than an 8:45. There are much faster US women over the mile/1500m who have only barely gotten to the 8:45 mark.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby aaronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
az2004 wrote:i think 8:55 is rrealistic next week for 3k


Yeah....I tend to agree with this moreso than an 8:45. There are much faster US women over the mile/1500m who have only barely gotten to the 8:45 mark.


There's a few reasons why I've made such a bold prediction for Mary.

1. Salazar has said she's ready to run 4:25 at Millrose. That's approx. 4:08 for 1500, 3 secs faster than her PR.
2. At even "just" 4:08 PR ability, if Cain slowed down 15 secs per 1500, she'd get an 8:46!! (And a sub-9:20 two mile!!!)
3. The fact that so few Americans have run 8:45 (indoors....or even outdoors) has really nothing to do with Cain being able to do so. SHE isn't to blame for the lack of depth in female USA distance running!! (Though that's improving!!) Did you notice that there was NO ranking of 3K runners in the Annual issue of T&FN?? Not enough 3K races?? The 3K seems to be mainly an indoor event. Rarely run outdoors anymore!!
4. Who's to say that this current crop of young female runners aren't the makings of a Renaissance in USA female distance running?? Besides Cain, we have (potentially) Sarah Baxter, Brianna Nerud, Cayla Hatton, Ajee Wilson, the Meier girls, Wesley Frazier, Amy Eloise-Neale, Erin Finn, Katie Knight, and so many others, including the still-young Jordan Hasay!!
5. Finally, Cain WANTS to run fast.....every time!! She's not intimidated by pro runners!! She has Salazar as her coach! And she's a RARE talent!! Let's not underestimate her!!
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Brian » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:26 am

One thing I believe we should all do for Mary Cain is to get into the habit (as some here already have, which gave me the idea) of referring to her mostly by her last name rather than her first, just as we would for an adult female.

A small thing, but one that helps maintain basic respect rather than turning her into a/our "little darling."

The mainstream media will do that enough.
.
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Re: Mary Cain 9:02.10 3k (Oversized track) [overall HSR]

Postby Jon » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:10 am

Jon wrote:Also, I don't believe it's been mentioned anywhere else yet (despite all the talk about her performance on various sites), but Cain's mile time is a world youth indoor best.
I've also just realised that her 9:02.10 is also a world youth indoor best. (Granted, it was run on an oversized track, but "world youth indoor bests" aren't recognised records anyway, so that doesn't really matter).
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby az2004 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:50 am

arronk mnetioned some of the hot young kids

isn't ajee taking a run at the decker 800 mark this weekend

for me base speed is the key, wilson and cain have it

i think nehrud is in the equation too

i think having that african change of gear at the end of the race is needed

i'm talking about winning, not running for 3rd

but i do FULLY agree usa has more topend talents

i think the longer baxter goes, the better she can be say the marathon, i think one day she is very good there

as to cain i think running for 8:55 is safer, 8:45 risks blowing up

run neg split miles and surprise yourself, she does have a tendancy to finish well, have never seen her not finish well..

as to 4:25 mile, that's the cap of the indoor season, when putting everything together should happen

the boston 2 mile is strength work for the millrose mile and if she runs 9:50 in boston, ok
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby Marlow » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:02 am

All these Eldrickian extrapolations of what she's going to run next make me sad. If it turns out she is human and doesn't meet our expectations, where does that leave her?

I watched the Rupp 3:50 mile video and was also very sad that the announcer's call focused first and foremost on his FAILURE to break the record . . . :(

As for Mary' Cain's name, PC concerns are just that. She's a 16-year-old girl, and all the ones I know (I am inundated by them on a daily basis) would much prefer to go by just their first name rather than just their last or even Ms. Lastname. Just a thought.
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Re: 1500/Mile records for Cain [split]

Postby az2004 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:33 am

from hearing her interviews mary cain seems like whatever happens happens, it's not like a big name talent at the 2000 olympics where the pressure ws so intense she couldn't deal with it

if mary cain runs a 10:05 in bostom it'll be a whatever moment for her, a learning expereince

mary cain isn't taking this as serious as some, just enjoying it

enjoying being in the same race as t dibaba and enjoying what she can do
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