RIP Stan Musial


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RIP Stan Musial

Postby DrJay » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:14 pm

He retired long before I was old enough to follow sports, but what a legend.

A nice quote from CNN's site: "Wrote Jason Lukehart, on Twitter: 'In a week that's shown the dangers deifying athletes, Stan Musial's death reminds me that once in a great while, there's a man worthy of it.'"

For those who like numbers, he provided a lot to marvel at:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... st01.shtml
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dukehjsteve » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:18 am

He was my first athletic idol as a boy. Even though I lived in NY, I was a fanatic St. Louis Cardinal fan. In 1957 I kept a scrapbook, with newspaper clippings, boxscores, and my own writeups of all 154 games !

I still remember one time, at about age 12, when I did something very bad ( swearing in a neighbor's yard so that they called my parents ) my father sat me down for a long chat, and he said to me, " Do you think Stan Musial would talk like that ? " It hit home !
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby tandfman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:07 am

I never knew anything (or cared) about his character or personality. I just knew that even though I never rooted for the Cardinals, I always enjoyed watching him swing a bat, so often with undesirable results for the team I was rooting for. He was an amazing hitter. RIP.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 am

He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dj » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:25 am

jazzcyclist wrote:He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .


True . . . if you were an East-coaster. But for anyone west of the Allegheny mountains who followed baseball, not so true.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:19 am

dj wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .


True . . . if you were an East-coaster. But for anyone west of the Allegheny mountains who followed baseball, not so true.


Definitely not true. In the Midwest, one of the biggest names, even long after he retired. It was probably because of comparison with Musial that Santo had such a hard time getting into the HoF.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dukehjsteve » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:19 am

And his famous nickname, " Stan The Man," was bestowed upon him by the NY/Brooklyn sportswriters after he continually hammered the Dodgers at Ebbets Field. Golly I loved going to that ballpark. Polo Grounds too. Both had unique characteristics.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:23 am

Conor Dary wrote:
dj wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .


True . . . if you were an East-coaster. But for anyone west of the Allegheny mountains who followed baseball, not so true.


Definitely not true. In the Midwest, one of the biggest names, even long after he retired. It was probably because of comparison with Musial that Santo had such a hard time getting into the HoF.


I think you got dj's analysis backwards
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:37 am

gh wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
dj wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .


True . . . if you were an East-coaster. But for anyone west of the Allegheny mountains who followed baseball, not so true.


Definitely not true. In the Midwest, one of the biggest names, even long after he retired. It was probably because of comparison with Musial that Santo had such a hard time getting into the HoF.


I think you got dj's analysis backwards


Perhaps my phrasing was wrong but I was agreeing with dj, who contradicting the assertion that Musial was underrated and overlooked.

Anyways, Musial was well known in Chicago long after he retired. As for NY? Who cares... :lol:
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby KDFINE » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:22 am

All class, a genuine nice man. He hit a home run in the first game I ever attended.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby cullman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:15 pm

dj wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:He's arguably the most underrated and overlooked player in the history of baseball. If he had only played in New York . . . . .


True . . . if you were an East-coaster. But for anyone west of the Allegheny mountains who followed baseball, not so true.

The Man was so good that he has two statues of hisself outside of Busch Stadium. :)

RIP, Stan.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:19 pm

loved his distinctive stance at the plate.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dukehjsteve » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:44 pm

On every Little League team I played on, I always asked for, and usually was given, # 6 .
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:25 pm

I was an LA Dodger fan (did not know/care about pro baseball until 1959); he was one player I always feared from the opposition, even though his last four-five years were not so strong (except age 41 when he hit .330).
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby Friar » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:22 pm

I was able to breeze through his 2011 bio in about 45 min's. Not a whole lot of drama there (fine with me). He did have a lifelong feud with Joe Garagiola if you are looking for any controversy at all. He just hit (never saw him play).
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dj » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:31 pm

gh wrote:loved his distinctive stance at the plate.


Even for right-handed kids, Musial's was the first batting stance you had to mimic well if you were going to be a stance model. The other distinctive stances of the day were Ernie Banks, Frank Robinson, Jim Lemon (yeah, I know, few have heard of him), and later, Pete Rose.

Mantle's was somewhat similar to Musial's, although much more upright at the knees and a little more upright at the waist. But there was enough of a torque in the torso that the pitcher could see the entire #7 on his back, and that was the part of the Musial stance. With Mantle growing up in Oklahoma in the '40s (Musial at his best) I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of copying going on, although I've never heard of it.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby tandfman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:And his famous nickname, " Stan The Man," was bestowed upon him by the NY/Brooklyn sportswriters after he continually hammered the Dodgers at Ebbets Field.

Ebbets Field was made for Musial. I don't know what his lifetime average was there, but it must have been very high.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby DrJay » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:40 pm

He hit .356 at Ebbets, vs. an overall career average of .331

http://thehitters.com/profile.asp?i=1100&e=1

Also, he had 1815 hits at home and 1815 on the road.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby KDFINE » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:02 am

Yes, his was the most distinctive stance. Less so, but very distinctive from the mid-50s was Lopata, Campanella, and Robinson. Lopata's was a crouch more pronounced than Pete Roses'. Campy was the most open stance imaginable. Robinson had the bat way up high, almost like a samurai warrior.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Bob Costas' eulogy of Stan Musial. Enjoy.

http://fox2now.com/2013/01/26/bob-costa ... or-musial/
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:54 am

tandfman wrote:
dukehjsteve wrote:And his famous nickname, " Stan The Man," was bestowed upon him by the NY/Brooklyn sportswriters after he continually hammered the Dodgers at Ebbets Field.

Ebbets Field was made for Musial. I don't know what his lifetime average was there, but it must have been very high.


Story in my local the other day said it was because the Ebbets fans were so in awe of him that they chanted "Stan The Man"
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby Halfmiler2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:18 pm

The first MLB game I ever attended as a young kid was when my granddad took my dad and me to see the Mets play the Cardinals (Bob Gibson pitching) at the Polo Grounds in 1962. Musial hit three home runs as the Cardinals won 15-1. I vividly recall that when the Cardinals lineup was announced every Cardinal was booed until Musial who got a loud round of applause.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby cullman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:42 pm

dj wrote:
gh wrote:loved his distinctive stance at the plate.


Even for right-handed kids, Musial's was the first batting stance you had to mimic well if you were going to be a stance model. The other distinctive stances of the day were Ernie Banks, Frank Robinson, Jim Lemon (yeah, I know, few have heard of him), and later, Pete Rose.

...but nobody had a stance like Wes Covington. :)
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dj » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:53 am

cullman wrote:
dj wrote:
gh wrote:loved his distinctive stance at the plate.


Even for right-handed kids, Musial's was the first batting stance you had to mimic well if you were going to be a stance model. The other distinctive stances of the day were Ernie Banks, Frank Robinson, Jim Lemon (yeah, I know, few have heard of him), and later, Pete Rose.

...but nobody had a stance like Wes Covington. :)


Good point. The only person to hit a ball over the Longines clock atop the 50-foot tall right field scoreboard at Connie Mack.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby bijanc » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:39 pm

There were also Carl Yaz w/ the bat cocked high (every kid in New England aped that one, as did his OF mate Reggie Smith), and wide open Dick McAuliffe. Tony Oliva, Rico Carty (and to a lesser extent Clemente), the Afro-Latin batsmen w/ their rear foot stradding the back chalk line of the batter's box.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:50 pm

back when it was a badge of shame to walk:

<<Eighteen strikeouts. Pat Burrell had that many in the 2010 NLCS and World Series. Adam Dunn had that many in his first 10 games last season. Jack Cust had that many over a stretch of 26 at-bats in 2008.

Reggie Jackson? He'd strike out 18 times in one nap.

On the other hand, Stan Musial struck out 18 times in 1943.....>>


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/sports/shea/artic ... z2JOqi4Eeq
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dj » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:56 pm

gh wrote:back when it was a badge of shame to walk:

<<Eighteen strikeouts. Pat Burrell had that many in the 2010 NLCS and World Series. Adam Dunn had that many in his first 10 games last season. Jack Cust had that many over a stretch of 26 at-bats in 2008.

Reggie Jackson? He'd strike out 18 times in one nap.

On the other hand, Stan Musial struck out 18 times in 1943.....>>


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/sports/shea/artic ... z2JOqi4Eeq



Good stuff, but 1943 was before Musial had developed a power stroke and, as indicated above, strikeouts are often the flip side of homeruns.

Musial had only 18 strikeouts in '43, but he also had only 13 home runs. It wasn't until five years later when Musial first hit 30 homeruns and went on a run of six 30-homer years in an eight year span.

On the other hand, the season best for having more home runs than strikeouts belongs to Tommy Holmes, who had 28 homers with only 9 strikeouts in 1945.

Here's a great chart showing all the seasons in which a player had more homers than strikeouts with a minimum of 20 homers: http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/10091
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:09 pm

Interesting how the only recent one is Barry Bonds in 2004. Most HR hitters these days it is either hit a homer or forget it.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:39 pm

I'm a bit surprised to see Big Klu on the list. My boyhood recollection (probably cuz of the big arms and ripped sleeves) was that he was the consummate swing for the fences kind of guy.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:12 pm

Conversely, Reggie Jackson, the most overrated player in history IMO, had fewers hits than strikeouts 11 times, and led the league in strikeouts five times.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby gh » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:21 pm

There used to be a saying along the lines of "I'd rather watch Reggie Jackson strike out than see anybody else hit a homer"; I always appreciated his at bats as works of art, even when flawed.
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby DecFan » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:04 am

When Musial died, John Batchelor re-broadcast his excellent interview with George Vecsey, author of the 2011 Musial biography. The interview is great (better, IMHO, than the book).
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Re: RIP Stan Musial

Postby dj » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:07 am

gh wrote:I'm a bit surprised to see Big Klu on the list. My boyhood recollection (probably cuz of the big arms and ripped sleeves) was that he was the consummate swing for the fences kind of guy.


You and I, both. And you''ll note this was the big surprise to the big time baseball fans who populate the baseball think factory board.
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