the greatest liar of all time [split]


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the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Marlow » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:43 am

gh wrote:go to the front page, and you can now vote for greatest liar of all time

Of their list, I'd vote for Nixon, but then it occurred to me that the most SKILLED (BEST) liar of our time is Bill Clinton! His shtick in regard to ML was MASTERFUL!!
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 am

Boy, many of those are not even in the same league as the biggest liars. Interesting that they did not put in a write-in option. I would put these near the top of the heap:

Lysenko
Stalin
Hitler

Lysenko [long-time Stalin fav who pushed Lamarskism despite knowing better (or at least should have known better, I expect the former) ranks above the other two because both Hitler and Stalin were up front on part of their terror. I would be interested in what the genetics-informed people think (Daisy, gh, the docs).

Few got death or dishonor for crossing Armstrong.
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Daisy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:05 am

I've never read a biography of Lysenko, but my guess would be that he succumbed to confirmation bias.
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:15 am

In part, I was thinking of the material in The Eighth Day of Creation, were at the end one interviewee indicated that he had visited Lysenko's Lab in Moscow (during the International Conference, Lysenko was not there, why be out of town at the biggest bio event in USSR history) and said that there cobwebs around the lab. He was not doing research and was not trying to pursue the biology, just the ideology.
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Daisy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:23 am

26mi235 wrote:In part, I was thinking of the material in The Eighth Day of Creation, were at the end one interviewee indicated that he had visited Lysenko's Lab in Moscow (during the International Conference, Lysenko was not there, why be out of town at the biggest bio event in USSR history) and said that there cobwebs around the lab. He was not doing research and was not trying to pursue the biology, just the ideology.

Do you need to 'prove' what you're sure is true? Obviously not very scientific, but I think that might have been his mentality.

Speaking of lies, some of the worst in China were as a consequence of Lysenko's propaganda. During the great leap forward his theories changed the face of agriculture and resulted in poor yields, but the local officials 'had' to save face and reported yields that the communist party officials wanted to hear.

A number of radical and controversial agricultural innovations were promoted at the behest of Mao. Many of these were based on the ideas of now discredited Soviet agronomist Trofim Lysenko and his followers. The policies included close cropping, whereby seeds were sown far more densely than normal on the incorrect assumption that seeds of the same class would not compete with each other.
..........
Meanwhile, local leaders were pressured into falsely reporting ever-higher grain production figures to their political superiors. Participants at political meetings remembered production figures being inflated up to 10 times actual production amounts as the race to please superiors and win plaudits – like the chance to meet Mao himself – intensified. The state was later able to force many production groups to sell more grain than they could spare based on these false production figures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap ... xperiments
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Pego » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:23 am

26mi235 wrote:Boy, many of those are not even in the same league as the biggest liars. Interesting that they did not put in a write-in option. I would put these near the top of the heap:

Lysenko
Stalin
Hitler

Lysenko [long-time Stalin fav who pushed Lamarskism despite knowing better (or at least should have known better, I expect the former) ranks above the other two because both Hitler and Stalin were up front on part of their terror. I would be interested in what the genetics-informed people think (Daisy, gh, the docs).

Few got death or dishonor for crossing Armstrong.


Daisy wrote:I've never read a biography of Lysenko, but my guess would be that he succumbed to confirmation bias.


I matriculated in med school at the time when everything in Communist Europe had to comply with "Soviet lead." In medical genetics it was actually more Lepeshinskaya's pseudoscience rather than Lysenko. The biggest difference between the two was that Lepeshinskaya was simply sloppy in her research and reporting results that could not be replicated elsewhere. Lysenko on the other hand was an outright fraud, who knew that he was a fraud.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby cullman » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:36 pm

While on the topic of fibbing...Dan Ariely has written an interesting book "The (Honest) Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone---Especially Ourselves"

Link: The Honest Truth about Dishonesty: RSA Animate Version

cman :)
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Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby AS » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:22 pm

26mi235 wrote:Boy, many of those are not even in the same league as the biggest liars. Interesting that they did not put in a write-in option. I would put these near the top of the heap:

Lysenko
Stalin
Hitler



I was trying to work out what you had against female hammer throwers, then realised you were talking about someone else... 8-)

I presumed she may have told a few porkies to try and get out of her 2008 suspension however...
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby aaronk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:47 pm

The thing with calling Bill Clinton "the greatest liar" is that adulterers, whether male or female, whether an ordinary Joe or Jane or President of the United States,are all LYING when having an affair!

I mean, if you're doing your secretary, or one of your college students, or your maid, you're NOT going to say to your wife, "Hon, I'm going off to have sex with (Fill in the name!!). I'll be coming home late. But don't worry. I'll remember to get a gallon of milk for our children's cereal in the morning. Have a good night, Sweetheart!!"

Of course you wouldn't say that!!!

You'd make an excuse.....i.e., LIE about it!!!

EVERY ADULTERER LIES!!!!!
It's the nature of the beast!!!

So President Clinton was only doing what MILLIONS of others, male and female, are doing every night of the week!!!
That he lied before a Grand Jury meant nothing!!
He was REALLY lying to his wife and daughter!!
After all, he was probably the ONLY adulterer in the country to be forced to lie before a Grand Jury!!
You and I, if we were having affairs, wouldn't be!!
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Master Po » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:45 pm

Too many varieties of liars out there to compare -- some already mentioned in our data set are philanders, some are mass murderers...there's a great difference here that makes comparison and rankings a bit of a stretch.

But were I to restrict the field to "greatest sports liars" then I think Lance is on the short list, if not at the top. I am thinking of who else might make this more restricted list... T&F dopers of course come to mind, Marion Jones being prominent among them...Pete Rose comes to mind...I'm sure there are many others, from the famous to the various amateur and otherwise obscure athletics fabulists who occasionally come to our attention here.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby bushop » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:52 pm

Master Po wrote:... restrict the field to "greatest sports liars"

Anyone in the media who says...
... there was a "baseball steroid era" that has ended.
... cycling and athletics are dirtier than the NFL, NBA or MLB.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby schigh » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:50 am

I think a quote by Richard Feynman is applicable to lying in general:

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool…. After you’ve not fooled yourself, it’s easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that.”

At some point the greatest liars somehow find a way to fool themselves no matter how 'smart' they may be.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:21 pm

Maybe we can throw Manti Te'o into the mix

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos- ... -is-a-hoax

Manti Te’o’s Dead Girlfriend, The Most Heartbreaking And Inspirational Story Of The College Football Season, Is A Hoax
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby tandfman » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:46 pm

Great comments on Twitter:

>>I mean, who would have thought somebody could top Lance Armstrong as this week's biggest liar? <<

>>These Te'o jokes are all very funny but let's all try and remember that a person who never existed is dead. <<
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:17 pm

local radio wags asked, "What's the sentence for killing somebody you made up?"
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Friar » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:48 pm

ND, S.I., I can't say I care about either's discomfort. It can be terrific to see really great reporting and disheartening to see the stupid, slothful variety. There certainly appears to be both here.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:55 am

If there's any fan of The Usual Suspects, you will love this animated gif...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2028103/teo.gif

My theory is this was started to cover up that he's gay and it got out of control. A Mormon at a Catholic school and a future NFLer. You can't be publicly gay with those 3 strikes against you.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:23 am

The Daily Show explains Armstrong's capacity for lying (4-minute video, adultish)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-j ... d_facebook
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 am

Actually, Stewart's thing is in ttwo pieces. Watch "Mr. Fibb" first.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-j ... 3/mr--fibb
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:42 am

The best part was the names of the LEDs (Lie Enhancing Drugs) - all take-offs on real drugs - very funny stuff.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:02 am

so if you're the GM of an NFL team, and there are only two possible analyses (either he got fooled or he made shit up), how much does this "character flaw" drop him on your draft chart?

I realize that we've seen that criminal activity tends to do little to harm one's status (hell, in some cases it probably makes you a more appealing candidate, sadly enough), but what about a "mental flaw" like this? Would you be overly concerned about his decision-making ability?
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Marlow » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:13 am

gh wrote:so if you're the GM of an NFL team, and there are only two possible analyses (either he got fooled or he made shit up), how much does this "character flaw" drop him on your draft chart? I realize that we've seen that criminal activity tends to do little to harm one's status (hell, in some cases it probably makes you a more appealing candidate, sadly enough), but what about a "mental flaw" like this? Would you be overly concerned about his decision-making ability?

Zip-squat. There have been some real Neanderthals and some real shady characters who have had stellar careers. If I'm the GM, we DO have an initial heart-to-heart about all this.
What truly amazes me about the NBA/NFL/MLB is that their rookies go through EXTENSIVE orientation on how to keep their noses clean and so many CAN'T!! Are they that
Stupid?
Immoral (amoral)?
Evil?
Ill-bred?
Weak?
Low character?
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby cullman » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:47 am

They're young. I did some asinine things (and still do) when I was their age.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby j-a-m » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 am

gh wrote:so if you're the GM of an NFL team, and there are only two possible analyses (either he got fooled or he made shit up), how much does this "character flaw" drop him on your draft chart?

He had a bad game against Bama, for whatever reasons. That's gonna be considered "not able to deal with adversity", given that it was the first game after he "found out" about this.

So to whatever extent the story as such hurts him, that perception of not being able to handle adversity is gonna be added to it.

In addition, some of the reasons he was so high on people's draft boards in the first place were his "intangibles". So just by adjusting that factor from positive to zero he drops, and now it's gonna be adjusted all the way from positive to negative.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby tandfman » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:49 pm

The subject line of this thread is addressed here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... ml?hpid=z3
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:07 pm

tandfman wrote:The subject line of this thread is addressed here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... ml?hpid=z3


Complete and utter nonsense. And Kesseler should know better.

After all we are talking about a sporting event in FRANCE! Who really cared about it until Armstrong showed up? Certainly not Kesseler.

Meanwhile we got lied into a war 10 years ago. But Hey, that is political.

But ganging up on Armstrong is easy, because it is a sport few really care about. And something the VSP of which Kesseler is a senior member don't have to remember they were dead wrong about and had real ramifications.

I have avoided the LA threads because the whole thing is just over the top. I mean, Oprah now? I had thought this thread had moved on from that. Obviously not. Ugh.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:03 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:My theory is this was started to cover up that he's gay and it got out of control. A Mormon at a Catholic school and a future NFLer. You can't be publicly gay with those 3 strikes against you.


I think you hit the nail right on the head with Te'o. For the past 9 years I owned a Drag Queen night club which my daughter ran. The Drag Queens are all unanimous in that the Kekua story is such a gay thing to do; especially when you are the star at a Catholic school with football players who must prove their "manliness" within the breeding grounds of priests with interesting preferences.

Looking for the great liars of history - go back to Rome; that's a pretty good starting place.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:10 pm

Is it fair to note that this board must truly be one of the few places you could go to learn that Kiwi drag queens follow NCAA football?ll!
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:34 pm

gh wrote:Is it fair to note that this board must truly be one of the few places you could go to learn that Kiwi drag queens follow NCAA football?ll!

Several of them are big enough to play NCAA football. Checkout the photos in the link below; especially the rugby one.

http://www.limelightnz.co.nz/Photos

Actually you are right, except for one, they don't actually give a damn about NCAA football. But when I told them the Te'o story and showed them some his photos off Yahoo they all came to the same conclusions:

* He is gay,and
* They would all love to help him through his current emotional difficulties.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Pego » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:53 pm

Tuariki wrote:
gh wrote:Is it fair to note that this board must truly be one of the few places you could go to learn that Kiwi drag queens follow NCAA football?ll!

Several of them are big enough to play NCAA football. Checkout the photos in the link below; especially the rugby one.

http://www.limelightnz.co.nz/Photos

Actually you are right, except for one, they don't actually give a damn about NCAA football. But when I told them the Te'o story and showed them some his photos off Yahoo they all came to the same conclusions:

* He is gay,and
* They would all love to help him through his current emotional difficulties.


The one in a red mini - never in a million years...
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby marknhj » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Pego wrote:The one in a red mini - never in a million years...


If the Badgers show up in LA to lose the Rose Bowl yet again, stay an extra day and I'll take you around West Hollywood :D
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Daisy » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Tuariki wrote:http://www.limelightnz.co.nz/Photos

Is that American flags being used as a toga? :)
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby gh » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:15 pm

toga?! in that part of the world they probably call it a parea (like the Tahitians), or something similar.
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby Pego » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:53 pm

marknhj wrote:
Pego wrote:The one in a red mini - never in a million years...


If the Badgers show up in LA to lose the Rose Bowl yet again, stay an extra day and I'll take you around West Hollywood :D


It's a date :wink: .
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Re: the greatest liar of all time [split]

Postby tandfman » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:47 am

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