Josh Mance

[DoubleRBar]

I was surprised to read that Josh Mance is leaving USC for FSU. I remember seeing him run in high school and thinking that he was bound for Olympic glory. He has lots of talent. Anyone know more details about his move to Florida?

[Mighty Favog]

The source of the info, with a response by Mance himself:
http://www.eboards4all.com/789727/messages/8504.html

[26mi235]

Athlete/coach loggerheads:

"Listen, the choice that was made was 100% my own decision. After
constant altercations between me in coach Alice I made the choice to
leave knowing that coach Alice and I can not progress and I most likely
will not reach my full potential working with him. Just to be clear, I've
been in no disciplinary trouble and I am fine academically. I have
nothing bad to say about the program or the school, Sometimes in life
adults have to make decisions they believe will better their future
(THAT THEY ARE PERUSING) and although some may think it's not a
wise choice, I know it is best for me at this point. With or without me I
hope you all Fight On. "

In the article cited first, it says he will be eligible immediately -- why is this the case?

Josh Mance, a member of the 4×400 relay team that won a silver medal at the London Olympics, is transferring, most likely to Florida State. Under NCAA rules for track, he would be eligible immediately.

[Blues]

In the article cited first, it says he will be eligible immediately -- why is this the case?

Josh Mance, a member of the 4×400 relay team that won a silver medal at the London Olympics, is transferring, most likely to Florida State. Under NCAA rules for track, he would be eligible immediately.

Because he doesn't play a sport like football, basketball, baseball, or ice hockey... Seems like a double standard but I'm not complaining....

From the NCAA website:

Q: Why do football and basketball players have to sit out a year after they transfer?

A: The year-in-residence is required to help student-athletes adjust to their new school and ensure that their transfer was motivated by academics as well as athletics.

Student-athletes who participate in most NCAA sports are eligible for a one-time transfer exception, which allows them to compete immediately after transfer once in their college experience if they meet all other transfer requirements (such as being academically eligible).

However, student-athletes in sports that are historically academically underperforming – including basketball, football, baseball and men’s ice hockey – are not eligible for the exception.

Though student-athletes in these sports can’t compete in their first year at their new school, they can receive an athletics scholarship and practice with the team. A waiver process is available to all student-athletes, and each waiver request is reviewed individually. From April 2011 to April 2012, the NCAA approved 91 transfer waivers and denied 71.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/pub ... +transfers

[mal]

So Blue is there a review of performance of certain sports, or of certain institutions?

It seems that a solid athlete in a solid football school shouldn't haev to lose eligibilty. While a track and field guy transfers without review.

[gh]

there are also in-conference restrictions (differs from conference to conference). Pac-8 (10, 12, whatever) mandates that in-conference transfers have to wait a year. Maybe Big 10 too?

[j-a-m]

I was surprised to read that Josh Mance is leaving USC for FSU. I remember seeing him run in high school and thinking that he was bound for Olympic glory. He has lots of talent. Anyone know more details about his move to Florida?

Don't know any details, but if he believes coaches there are a better fit, then sure, go for it.

[ATK]

I was surprised to read that Josh Mance is leaving USC for FSU. I remember seeing him run in high school and thinking that he was bound for Olympic glory. He has lots of talent. Anyone know more details about his move to Florida?

Don't know any details, but if he believes coaches there are a better fit, then sure, go for it.

Based in his post, seems more like personal issues between him and the coach caused the switch, not necessarily him doubting the coaches abilities.

[Blues]

For whatever reasons, Josh hasn't had a chance to stay in one place too long in the past either.. As some may remember from his high school career, he started at Chino Hills High, then transferred to John W. North High, and then transferred again to Don Lugo High for his senior year. I'll miss seeing him run in the PAC-12, but I wish him luck at FSU or wherever he ends up.

[Blues]

there are also in-conference restrictions (differs from conference to conference). Pac-8 (10, 12, whatever) mandates that in-conference transfers have to wait a year. Maybe Big 10 too?

And many conferences not only require the athlete to sit out a year for an intra-conference transfer, but they also penalize the athlete a year of eligibility too as a deterrent...

[Blues]

So Blue is there a review of performance of certain sports, or of certain institutions?

It seems that a solid athlete in a solid football school shouldn't haev to lose eligibilty. While a track and field guy transfers without review.

It has nothing to do with the actual academic performance of the specific school's program.. It's a blanket rule for those particular sports. The NCAA says the rule requiring transferring athletes in those sports to sit out a year is for academic purposes, while some say it's really to protect the institutions' and coaches' investments in their talent. Here's the breakdown of the One-Time Transfer Exception:


The One-Time Transfer Exception (NCAA 14.5.5.2.10) is a commonly used exception for sports other than baseball, basketball, football, and ice hockey. If you meet the following three criteria...

• You have not transferred previously from one four-year school (unless your sport was discontinued or never sponsored)

• You would have been academically eligible had you remained at your previous school (except you would not have to meet percentage-of-degree requirements at your previous four-year school)

• Your previous school certifies in writing that it has no objection to a waiver of the one-year residence requirement

...then you can become immediately eligible upon enrollment at your new four-year school. You cannot compete during the traditional season at both the school from which you transfer and the school to which you transfer. You cannot use the one-time transfer exception if you plan to transfer to a four-year school and play baseball,basketball, ice hockey, or Football Bowl Subdivision football unless you were not recruited by your original four-year institution and have never received athletically related aid from any four-year institution. Additional rules may apply to Football Championship Subdivision football and some Divisions II and III sports.
If you believe that your case is somehow unusual, some other exception or waiver may apply to you. Contact your institution’s faculty representative or compliance office for details.

[preston]

Student-athletes should NEVER be restricted in anyway from transferring anywhere. It's amoral that it's allowed to happen and that coaches who tell themselves (and others) that they are good people purposely restrict a student-athletes right to transfer (whether that's once in 4 years or 8 times in 4 years). As long as a coach has enough time to recruit another athlete, a student-athlete should have a right to transfer; and, as long as an institution has an opening, a student athlete should be allowed to be admitted - AND COMPETE. This goes for colleges, junior colleges, high schools, middle schools - public or private.

If you want athletes to finally be student-athletes, nothing is going to put the fear of god in coaches, boosters and administrators of the SEC (and like-minded conferences like the Ivies) than to let them know that athletes are free to move at anytime. You'll see coaches start recruiting more kids who are more likely to fit the curriculum, the program, and the culture of that university.

Congratulations to Coach Ron Allice and coaches like him.

[TxHottrack]

Student-athletes should NEVER be restricted in anyway from transferring anywhere. It's amoral that it's allowed to happen and that coaches who tell themselves (and others) that they are good people purposely restrict a student-athletes right to transfer (whether that's once in 4 years or 8 times in 4 years). As long as a coach has enough time to recruit another athlete, a student-athlete should have a right to transfer; and, as long as an institution has an opening, a student athlete should be allowed to be admitted - AND COMPETE. This goes for colleges, junior colleges, high schools, middle schools - public or private.

If you want athletes to finally be student-athletes, nothing is going to put the fear of god in coaches, boosters and administrators of the SEC (and like-minded conferences like the Ivies) than to let them know that athletes are free to move at anytime. You'll see coaches start recruiting more kids who are more likely to fit the curriculum, the program, and the culture of that university.

Congratulations to Coach Ron Allice and coaches like him.

Ditto...well said!!!

[gh]

Restrictions on athlete transferring may indeed be "amoral," but unfortunately the even far more amoral activities of coaches and recruiters make it a necessary evil. If it were truly an open market, the big-money schools would simply go on raiding parties every year. Let's leave that to the pros.

[j-a-m]

Restrictions on athlete transferring may indeed be "amoral," but unfortunately the even far more amoral activities of coaches and recruiters make it a necessary evil. If it were truly an open market, the big-money schools would simply go on raiding parties every year. Let's leave that to the pros.

Now that you mention it, of course the restrictions on student athlete transfers are IMmoral ...

[j-a-m]

Student-athletes should NEVER be restricted in anyway from transferring anywhere.

Agreed.

[Blues]

Restrictions on athlete transferring may indeed be "amoral," but unfortunately the even far more amoral activities of coaches and recruiters make it a necessary evil. If it were truly an open market, the big-money schools would simply go on raiding parties every year. Let's leave that to the pros.

Preston made some good points, but I tend to agree more with gh. I don't think a coach or AD should try to make things more difficult for athletes during the transfer process, but for various reasons I think that certain restrictions are in the best interest of everyone, overall.

[gh]

Mance is now listed on the Seminole roster.

[gh]

and Mance is now on the Tallahassee police blotter (see front page).

[JumboElliott]

Referencing the story on the front page.

If convicted, his career in America is over.

[batonless relay]

and with the new laws that have come about after 9/11, don't be surprised if Newbold has a hearing with an immigration officer that could possibly lead to his deportation.

[gktrack]

And FSU's 4x4 was starting to look very promising for outdoors after running 3:05 indoors for a 3rd place NCAA finish w/o Mance... Now, they may be w/o both Mance and Newbold.

[batonless relay]

And FSU's 4x4 was starting to look very promising for outdoors after running 3:05 indoors for a 3rd place NCAA finish w/o Mance... Now, they may be w/o both Mance and Newbold.

I don't worry as much about Mance not competing - even this year; a resisting arrest charge and providing a fake ID for a college student is probably a misdemeanor. Newbold on the other hand better get a real good lawyer.

[gh]

and with the new laws that have come about after 9/11, don't be surprised if Newbold has a hearing with an immigration officer that could possibly lead to his deportation.

yeah, even a DUI can be viewed as cause for deportation now, apparently.

[JumboElliott]

Mance will be fine unless he was also packing.

[Blues]

And FSU's 4x4 was starting to look very promising for outdoors after running 3:05 indoors for a 3rd place NCAA finish w/o Mance... Now, they may be w/o both Mance and Newbold.

I don't worry as much about Mance not competing - even this year; a resisting arrest charge and providing a fake ID for a college student is probably a misdemeanor. Newbold on the other hand better get a real good lawyer.

If Mance resisted arrest without any type of violence toward an officer it's a misdemeanor in Florida, but if he resisted arrest with any type of violence on his part, then the charge would be a class 3 felony.

[JumboElliott]

Resisting without violence. He'll still plead out.

[Blues]

Additional info:


"Police say that when one of the officers mentioned a gun, a suspect --now identified as FSU sprinter Stephen Newbold-- ran away.

Officers say other suspect, sprinter Ronell Joshua Mance, also resisted the efforts by "tensing his body" and refusing to turn in the proper direction so police could search for a weapon. Police say they told him to stop, but he refused. As a result, he was arrested. Police searched him during the arrest and found Newbold's ID card with the date altered.

A police dog was able to track Newbold. When he was arrested, he told police that Mance used his ID card to get into The Moon, a local bar and nightclub.

One witness says that she saw Newbold shooting a gun. Shell casings were also found in the area where witnesses say the shooting happened. However, police are not releasing whether or not the weapon involved in the shooting was ever located."


http://www.wtxl.com/news/fsu-track-star ... 0f31a.html

[Dave]

Additional info:


"Police say that when one of the officers mentioned a gun, a suspect --now identified as FSU sprinter Stephen Newbold-- ran away.

Officers say other suspect, sprinter Ronell Joshua Mance, also resisted the efforts by "tensing his body" and refusing to turn in the proper direction so police could search for a weapon. Police say they told him to stop, but he refused. As a result, he was arrested. Police searched him during the arrest and found Newbold's ID card with the date altered.

A police dog was able to track Newbold. When he was arrested, he told police that Mance used his ID card to get into The Moon, a local bar and nightclub.

One witness says that she saw Newbold shooting a gun. Shell casings were also found in the area where witnesses say the shooting happened. However, police are not releasing whether or not the weapon involved in the shooting was ever located."


http://www.wtxl.com/news/fsu-track-star ... 0f31a.html

That sounds like Mance will have a very unpleasant hearing with the immigration people.

[Dutra5]

Additional info:


"Police say that when one of the officers mentioned a gun, a suspect --now identified as FSU sprinter Stephen Newbold-- ran away.

Officers say other suspect, sprinter Ronell Joshua Mance, also resisted the efforts by "tensing his body" and refusing to turn in the proper direction so police could search for a weapon. Police say they told him to stop, but he refused. As a result, he was arrested. Police searched him during the arrest and found Newbold's ID card with the date altered.

A police dog was able to track Newbold. When he was arrested, he told police that Mance used his ID card to get into The Moon, a local bar and nightclub.

One witness says that she saw Newbold shooting a gun. Shell casings were also found in the area where witnesses say the shooting happened. However, police are not releasing whether or not the weapon involved in the shooting was ever located."


http://www.wtxl.com/news/fsu-track-star ... 0f31a.html

That sounds like Mance will have a very unpleasant hearing with the immigration people.

Mance or Newbold?

[Blues]

Additional information on Mance arrest, and Mance's attorney comments:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/b ... 54571.post

[Dutra5]

Additional information on Mance arrest, and Mance's attorney comments:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/b ... 54571.post

He said he was with two other men named in the probable cause report on the third floor of the Campus Walk Apartments waiting for another friend to let them into his apartment when they heard two gunshots below. Mance said they immediately went downstairs to hear what the commotion was all about.

Whether true or not, I find this kind of weird. I hear a gunshot, I'm not running towards it.

[26mi235]

You grew up in an entirely different world - you are not an black living in the south.

[JumboElliott]

Josh Mance is from Chino. It's not like he's from Compton or Watts.

[batonless relay]

It looks like Newbold is still in jail.

http://www.thenassauguardian.com/index. ... &Itemid=50