Should I have been banned for the last week?


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Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:27 am

I’m baaack.
Perhaps not for long if GH decides to ban me for this posting.
So, did my punishment fit the crime?

e: wAOY - Felix, SRR, Adams, Perkovic
Tuariki wrote:....
By j-a-m's moronic logic.... Also by j-a-m's stupid logic...


Do come back and play with us in a while when you learn to be a tad more civil with your fellow posters.

A week ago I was summarily banned by GH because he considered I was uncivil to a fellow poster. If saying that someone’s logic is moronic and stupid is deemed uncivil then I am guilty as charged. And so, I unreservedly apologise to j-a-m for my un-civility. I still think j-a-m's logic is faulty. (I hope “faulty” is not considered to be uncivil)

But, I am also puzzled as to:
(1) Why my comments were considered to be uncivil; and
(2) Why my comments were deserving of a ban

The source of my puzzlement is from what appears to be common usage on this message board. To demonstrate, I reproduce a selection of postings from GH and a posting from Conor Dary.

Re: Who the hell writes the Bleacher Report articles on Trac
by gh » Tue May 22, 2012 7:56 pm
the best thing you can probably do in these cases is to deluge the moron with negative comments and hope that management will take note.

And so my puzzlement; why was it OK for GH just 6 months ago to call him a moron? Or is it one rule for the ref and another rule for the players.

Re: T&F N Oly predictions, and reaction
by gh » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:23 am
Yes, stirring the shit is part of what predictions are all about. And we're not remotely offended by any controversy that is raised.

having said that, the Jamaican columnist does make one moronic comment: <<While we understand that T&F News' mission remains to push America's interests....>>

And, if GH was not remotely offended 4 months ago, and felt justified in describing someone as” moronic”, then why is it when I describe someone’s opinion to be “moronic” it is now considered uncivil and presumably offensive and deserving of an instant ban.

Re: ¶2012 OG: wSP–Nadzeya Ostapchuk (Belarus) 70-1 (21.36)
by gh » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:31 pm
Unless you're willing to have your picture posted in public and the etherdom at general free to comment, shut the fuck up about how athletes look—particularly women—and go away. Is that clear enough?

Clearly a civil, non-offensive expression.

Re: 2012OT m5000—i smell a barnburner
by Conor Dary » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:27 pm
Look, you are an ignorant, racist moron. Why not leave it at that.

And what you call opinion, is a disgusting refusal to look at the facts. Take your Birther nonsense somewhere else.

And here we have Conor providing us with a rather descriptive expression of presumed civility.

And so members of the jury, the case for the defence rests.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Marlow » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Wow - are you overthinking this! I have been banned MANY times for transgressions of a capricious nature. It is what it is. The moderator has carte blanche to punish or reward as s/he sees fit. It's the law! :D
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:08 pm

Context matters, and with gh's comments about looks that is especially the case. Also, finding some posts with offensive words is not very much of a defense, since there are probably close to a million posts and not all of them get monitored. In addition, the tone and the degree to which it applies to the person and not simply a statement would matter to me. Personal attacks are frowned upon, especially as regards aspects not relevant to discussion.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby jeremyp » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:19 pm

Is it time to gather on T&F's Tahrir square and denounce capricious dictatorship?
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby wineturtle » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:00 pm

jeremyp wrote:Is it time to gather on T&F's Tahrir square and denounce capricious dictatorship?


jeremyp :wink: are you going to apply to gh for the permit to assemble on his square?

Context, prior history, prior interactions with target poster, and nipping in the bud all seem to play into why it often seems like the rules wander a bit. Good-- it shows that it's not words getting highlighted but ideas.
Call some TV Talking Head a MORON differs from calling a fellow poster a moron IMO.

There is a tone to these message boards and respecting our fellow posters in part of that tone.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Marlow » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:33 pm

jeremyp wrote:Is it time to gather on T&F's Tahrir square and denounce capricious dictatorship?

Does the expression "pissing into the wind" ring a bell? :wink:
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Helen S » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 pm

I thnk I may have been briefly banned (form posting, not reading?) once, but don't remember and it did not matter. It is no big deal- think of it as being warned by an officer for not stopping completely at a stop sign on your bicycle.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby marknhj » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:33 pm

I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Flumpy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:38 pm

I got banned 3 times during the Olympics. Mostly for calling drug cheats, 'drug cheats'.

Is that some kind or record?
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:48 pm

I have not yet been banned for my indiscretions, but I did get a sense of how a big ban might work when they had the system problem that started banning people (including gh). I remember being shocked and disappointed and wondering where I would share track and field stuff. It was a big relief to have it not be a ban....
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:08 pm

marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D


OMG!! This is really low. And really uncivil. Much better to be called moronic and stupid than bring up 38-21. But then there are times when I am quite happy to be a hypocrite and acknowledge that my Mum was born, bred and raised in Blackheath. For those of you who do not know where Blackheath is,it is in the East End of London.

38-21 Hamilton Tiger Cats beat Buffalo Bills, 8 August 1961 - that must be it.

I am sure that 38-21 wasn't just a mean, low down reference to an event that took place at Twickenham last weekend - but it is rapidly fading from the Antipodean memory banks. And yes, OK, the All Blacks were hopeless.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:17 pm

26mi235 wrote:I have not yet been banned for my indiscretions, but I did get a sense of how a big ban might work when they had the system problem that started banning people (including gh). I remember being shocked and disappointed and wondering where I would share track and field stuff. It was a big relief to have it not be a ban....

You need to learn to occasionally be offensive and uncivil because it is cathartic. Don't worry, if you get banned there are many ways to find relief - in the private obscurity of your banning.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:24 pm

Flumpy wrote:I got banned 3 times during the Olympics. Mostly for calling drug cheats, 'drug cheats'.

Is that some kind or record?

You should run for Parliament flumpy. You could get yourself banned regularly for things such as accusing David Cameron of being a estrogen enhanced whimp.

When I was an MP in NZ, Mr Speaker was always banning Members from the House. I only got kicked out once. I think I suggested that one of my honourable colleagues must have been a Heinrich Himmler's daughter. It was something to do with her having the "solution" to a problem. I thought she said the final solution. I think Mr Speaker thought I was being offensive
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:28 pm

Helen S wrote:I thnk I may have been briefly banned (form posting, not reading?) once, but don't remember and it did not matter. It is no big deal- think of it as being warned by an officer for not stopping completely at a stop sign on your bicycle.

I'm middle class. I got a car.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:30 pm

Marlow wrote:
jeremyp wrote:Is it time to gather on T&F's Tahrir square and denounce capricious dictatorship?

Does the expression "pissing into the wind" ring a bell? :wink:

I always check the wind direction. But I guess one should also look down the hill to see who you are pissing on. I just didn't think GH was hiding downwind.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:32 pm

Marlow wrote:Wow - are you overthinking this! I have been banned MANY times for transgressions of a capricious nature. It is what it is. The moderator has carte blanche to punish or reward as s/he sees fit. It's the law! :D

Am not over thinking. Just nothing better to do until Jacko hurries up and breaks some other record.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Pego » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:01 pm

Tuariki wrote:
Flumpy wrote:I got banned 3 times during the Olympics. Mostly for calling drug cheats, 'drug cheats'.

Is that some kind or record?

You should run for Parliament flumpy. You could get yourself banned regularly for things such as accusing David Cameron of being a estrogen enhanced whimp.

When I was an MP in NZ, Mr Speaker was always banning Members from the House. I only got kicked out once. I think I suggested that one of my honourable colleagues must have been a Heinrich Himmler's daughter. It was something to do with her having the "solution" to a problem. I thought she said the final solution. I think Mr Speaker thought I was being offensive


Women do find it unpalatable to be considered decades older than they really are :wink: .
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby marknhj » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:46 am

Tuariki wrote:
marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D


OMG!! This is really low. And really uncivil. Much better to be called moronic and stupid than bring up 38-21. But then there are times when I am quite happy to be a hypocrite and acknowledge that my Mum was born, bred and raised in Blackheath. For those of you who do not know where Blackheath is,it is in the East End of London.

38-21 Hamilton Tiger Cats beat Buffalo Bills, 8 August 1961 - that must be it.

I am sure that 38-21 wasn't just a mean, low down reference to an event that took place at Twickenham last weekend - but it is rapidly fading from the Antipodean memory banks. And yes, OK, the All Blacks were hopeless.


I logged onto an illegal feed on my laptop just in time to see the final whistle blown. I almost fell out of bed with shock at that score plus seeing that West Ham had beaten Chelsea 3-1. I assumed I was in the midst of a cruel dream...

I spent half my childhood in Blackheath; my Dad was born there and my uncle used to run middle distance for Blackheath Harriers (Sydney Wooderson's club). Or rather, Blackeef 'Arry-errrs.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:21 am

I competed for Croydon in 1971 when I was living in London with relatives.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:47 am

Yes Tuariki, it was right of GH to ban you for using "moronic and "stupid" about fellow posters. You are also a free thinker and a good laugh, so you have to be put in your place.

(OK then. Was it right for the BMAF Chairman unilaterally to ban me for one whole year in 2007, citing 'bringing the sport into disrepute,' for not apologizing to BMAF?)
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby meninblack » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:46 pm

marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D


I find this posting extremely offensive and hope you are banned forever!
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Pego » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:51 pm

Since this thread is primarily about calling people names, let me make a public declaration that some here will endorse, some others would not give a rat's ass about.

NHL and NHLPA are a bunch of assholes.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby lonewolf » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:18 pm

And some of us won't even know what those acronyms stand for. :? :)
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:29 pm

Pego - "Assholes" does not count. I complained that the BMAF Team Manager at 2006 WMA Indoors Linz tried to smuggle a GBR relay runner past the Call Room and that he called me an "Asshole" for opposing him. Did not matter. Say something worse.

Lonewolf - BMAF stands for British Masters Athletics Federation.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Daisy » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:31 pm

meninblack wrote:
marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D

I find this posting extremely offensive and hope you are banned forever!

On the other hand, I found it hilarious and second it :) ;)
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Pego » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:24 pm

Anthony Treacher wrote:Pego - "Assholes" does not count. I complained that the BMAF Team Manager at 2006 WMA Indoors Linz tried to smuggle a GBR relay runner past the Call Room and that he called me an "Asshole" for opposing him. Did not matter. Say something worse.

Lonewolf - BMAF stands for British Masters Athletics Federation.


I might upgrade NHL and NHLPA in due time.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby cullman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:27 pm

Pego wrote:Since this thread is primarily about calling people names, let me make a public declaration that some here will endorse, some others would not give a rat's ass about.

NHL and NHLPA are a bunch of assholes.

..not to mention a bunch of cork soaking bastiges. :o
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:01 am

meninblack wrote:
marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D


I find this posting extremely offensive and hope you are banned forever!

I think this the wrong approach.
It is better to come up with numbers that even more offensive and uncivil.
For example:
27 - 7
861 - 432
5 - 1
75.34 - 53.15

I will explain in another posting the origins of their offensiveness.

Marknhj, daisy, treacher are of course invited to identify the offensiveness. As are any other of the civil poms on this message board
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Daisy » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:58 am

Tuariki wrote:75.34 - 53.15

Percentage of games won?
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby meninblack » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:16 am

Tuariki wrote:
meninblack wrote:
marknhj wrote:I'm glad you're back. Gives us the opportunity to bring up 38-21 :D


I find this posting extremely offensive and hope you are banned forever!

I think this the wrong approach.
It is better to come up with numbers that even more offensive and uncivil.


Or maybe highlight some of their press like this quote from the Sydney Morning Herald:

"Lost to England - their first loss since Christ was playing for Jerusalem and the Dead Sea was only sick"
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:30 am

Over all games between NZ and England
27 wins for NZ, 7 wins for England
861 points for NZ, 432 for England

IRB international rugby player of the year. First awarded in 2001. 12 awards in total.
5 times to a kiwi, 1 time to a Pom

Daisy is correct
Historical winning percentages of all games played
75.34 for the All Blacks
53.15 for England

And of course the only football (soccer) team that left South Africa undefeated in the 2010 World Cup was New Zealand. :)
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Halfmiler2 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:13 am

It's Garry's board and even if I may not agree with him on every single decision, I am happy that he tires to keep a level of civility on it. And I guess his moderating may be a bit lax next weekend when The Hobbit movie debuts. :wink:
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby gh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:16 pm

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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby kuha » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:53 pm

Halfmiler2 wrote:he tires to keep a level of civility on it.


I'm sure that's true!
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:24 pm

Another cartoon on what many New Zealand taxpayers think is the real worth of the hobbits

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons ... d=10851306
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:26 am

Tuariki, actually your Admin GH is very lenient compared to som forum moderators in my experience. Give him credit for that. I think it is good that he bans people for very short periods to "cool off." Not all forum administrators are like that.

I was banned from one (notorious) British athletics forum simply for pointing out that the Admin was posting under multiple aliases. But then that apparently was business as usual for that Admin, so it probably does not count.

I was banned from an American masters forum because I reacted against a non-white masters athlete calling me a rasist when I stated that an American ("non-white" by chance but that was not the point) masters athlete and his US relay teammates should hand back their WMA medals after he had been suspended for cheating.That left a really bad impression on me because I was the person being attacked and I was not insulting anybody. Apparently in some quarters in the USA, maintaining the peace and racial harmony is more important than supporting the rules and the truth. But then that forum administrator is American left wing, which is "flexible" on such issues and sensitive to the "group", so it probably does not count either.

(By popular demand, edited by AT from "coloured" to "non-white." Pathetic. I never even mentioned that Athlete's colour, at all. And I thought we British had problems....")

I was banned from another ostensibly respectable British athletics forum - "for life" - for disclosing the full name of a poster who persisted in repeating the slander of the British Masters Athletics Federation (BMAF) that I had changed the selection and running order of the GBR relay team during the World Masters Indoors Linz back in 2006. But then that forum administrator is unusually spiteful by British standards, so it probably does not count either.

Anyway, what I am saying is that your Admin GH, if not 100% consistent and equitable, seems relatively just. Very civilized by comparison. And I am not trying to suck up to him (= "gain kudos" in their language). GH could ban me tomorrow and I would not bother - these internet forums being fundamentally unhealthy and to be taken in small doses.
Last edited by Anthony Treacher on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Blues » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:42 am

Anthony Treacher wrote:Tuariki, actually your Admin GH is very lenient compared to som forum moderators in my experience. Give him credit for that. I think it is good that he bans people for very short periods to "cool off." Not all forum administrators are like that.


I was banned from an American masters forum because I reacted against a coloured masters athlete calling me a rasist when I stated that an American (coloured by chance but that was not the point) masters athlete and his US relay teammates should hand back their WMA medals after he had been suspended for cheating.That left a really bad impression on me because I was the person being attacked and I was not insulting anybody. Apparently in some quarters in the USA, maintaining the peace and racial harmony is more important than supporting the rules and the truth. But then that forum administrator is American left wing, which is "flexible" on such issues and sensitive to the "group", so it probably does not count either........




Mr. Treacher, some of what transpired may have had to do with differences in the language and what's acceptable. In the USA today, to describe a person of non-white descent as being "colored" or "coloured" is usually considered to be offensive. Not sure if you did that in the group you were banned from, but if you did, that could influence how you were perceived..
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:59 am

Blues. Sorry. But that is utterly ridiculous. I did not refer tothe athlete's colour at all. How on earth can you even intimate that I did?

But I will edit my post to "non-white" if it makes things better - or makes any difference to anyone's skin colour or feelings.

Why can you not just accept my point that I was banned unjustly by a politically correct, conflict-avoiding Admin when unjustly being called a racist (and incidentally - when I think of it now - subjected to reverse racism or whatever it is called?)
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Tuariki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:13 am

Anthony.
Of cousre it is GH's right to ban whoever he wants, for as long as he wants. it's his forum, so he sets the rules and he is is the sole Judge on the interpretation of his rules.

I don't actually care that GH banned me for a week. However, given that we are in a period of precious little going on in terms of TnF, my banning gave me an excuse to say something, banal as it was, to see if I could generate some equally banal responses. Which it has.

We have now gone banally all the way down to hobbits.
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Re: Should I have been banned for the last week?

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:34 am

Tuariki. Don't even know what a hobbit is. Maybe a certain type of athletics forum Admin? (Excluding GH of course.)

How does the British "Athletics Weekly Forum Hobbit" sound to you?

(Oh Lord. Now I've gone and googled "Hobbit." And I am definitely not a better man for it. I knew these athletics forums were bad for you. Back to my Chinese radicals.)
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