Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]


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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Dave » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:38 am

The IAAF had an embarrassment of riches this year and chose to honor none of them.

While in the greater scheme of things, this is not terribly important, Bolt winning is a minor farce.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:30 am

Ned Ryerson wrote:
ZELLGADISS wrote:NO, it is your opinion and opinions of other pople that write in this forum.
But i heard coaches,athletes and journalists to tell that Bolt is winner with justice too.


And last year, too?



In my opinion the last year is not sure by Bolt, but this year for me Bolt won with justice.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:46 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:I admit that in 2011 was polemic decission, but this year is normal that he wins.
Wonderful year, historic triple victory in OG by 2nd consecutive time, and with wonderful times in each event.

Bolt is the GOAT


It is an award for this year; he already got awards for before, so this is double dipping if that is the criteria (the only time it should enter is if it wasn't given the prior year and should have been...DR). Not undefeated in either event, two golds and a quarter one, one less world record than DR (and Merritt) and two less than Eaton.

Obviously, this is my opinion and you have yours; we heard yours often now...
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ATK » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:55 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:NO, it is your opinion and opinions of other pople that write in this forum.
But i heard coaches,athletes and journalists to tell that Bolt is winner with justice too.

So are opinions, and your opinion is not better that mine, is different.
And the votes in IAAF give AOY to Bolt.

Sorry by it :wink:

I'm confused why you keep saying facts are opinions. I said before this isn't Gymnastics or Synchronized Swimming. We have absolute times and marks. Its impossible to not see how Bolt winning was a marketing decision...
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:02 am

Yes exactly, everyone give our opinion, but is not universal.
Indoor season for most people is not very important, so outdoor is a lot of more important.

Bolt was without doubt the biggest star in the OG with 3 incredible Golds, with 3 great times:
-2nd best time in the history in 100, in cold conditions(around 15 degrees)and with bad start, in adittion he had injury only 1 month before.
-In 200m he had wonderful time too, jogging last 10m in adittion, and only him got better time in a bing championship in all history 200m before.
-In 4x100m he got WR, and in adittion his relay was 8.70 information PJ Vazel, the fastest time for relay tied with Powell in Beijing i think.

Someone tells here that relays does not count. why?who tells it?
http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/bolt-and- ... tes-of-the
In the official website of IAAF, they COUNT 4x100 too, so i tell it too.

He got triple gold in sprint by 2nd consecutive time, never made by nobody before.

I understand that someone thinks different and prefer Rudisha or Merrit, big runners of course, but Bolt without doubt made wonderful performances too and i think that he won this award with justice.

Regards to everybody :wink:
Last edited by ZELLGADISS on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:04 am

ATK wrote:
ZELLGADISS wrote:NO, it is your opinion and opinions of other pople that write in this forum.
But i heard coaches,athletes and journalists to tell that Bolt is winner with justice too.

So are opinions, and your opinion is not better that mine, is different.
And the votes in IAAF give AOY to Bolt.

Sorry by it :wink:

I'm confused why you keep saying facts are opinions. I said before this isn't Gymnastics or Synchronized Swimming. We have absolute times and marks. Its impossible to not see how Bolt winning was a marketing decision...



ATK, ok ABSOLUTE TIMES AND MARKS?
Ok you look the IAAF TABLES and tell me WITH SINCERE, points iaaf for times Bolt in 100,200 and 4x100 and points IAAF for WR Rudisha and Merrit OK?

It is absolute and IAAF made that table for COMPARE times in different events :wink:
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby toyracer » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:24 pm

I'll just register my disagreement with the award being given to Bolt; I thought that another athlete was more deserving.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:06 pm

toyracer wrote:I'll just register my disagreement with the award being given to Bolt; I thought that another athlete was more deserving.


Yea, well you are just biased against Jamaicans... Opps :lol: :wink:

[good to have youback, missed your postings]
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby DentyCracker » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:44 am

I understand where ZELLGADISS is coming from is coming from. The problem is that scoring tables are subjective so that argument is blunted. I thought Rudisha should have won it with Meritt second to be honest. I think it is by necessity a popularty contest. I don't think marketing was at the forefront. 1:40.91 was the performance of the year for me qualitatively. Coconuts for cojones I tell you. Bolt is a vitim of his past success. 9.63 - aight, 19.26, shit even Blake has gone faster. If 9.58 and 19.32 hadn't happened he would have been a shoo-in
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:01 am

Well anything is possible with these votes.
They put O'Brien in the Hall of Fame with his one OG and 3 WC golds; why not Sebrle??, Gold and Silver in the OG, 3 WC Medals and the first past 9000 points. Not to mention Daley of course, only managed two successive OG Gold Medals,a world record and other medals at euro and world level.

So tell me American fans , why O'Brien.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Ned Ryerson » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:56 am

lionelp1 wrote:why not Sebrle??


Isn't he still active?
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:49 pm

You have to have been retired for 10 years so Sebrle not eligible but why not Bob Mathius ??

It ridiculous to me to induct people like Dan or Michael Johnson who have retired relatively recently when you have people from the 50's and 60's who have been ignored. There is plenty of time to induct recent people but a whole century to make up for first.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby bushop » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:58 pm

DentyCracker wrote:I understand where ZELLGADISS... Bolt is a vitim of his past success. 9.63 - aight, 19.26, shit even Blake has gone faster. If 9.58 and 19.32 hadn't happened he would have been a shoo-in

Good point.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby toyracer » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:03 pm

26mi235 wrote:
toyracer wrote:I'll just register my disagreement with the award being given to Bolt; I thought that another athlete was more deserving.


Yea, well you are just biased against Jamaicans... Opps :lol: :wink:

[good to have youback, missed your postings]


You made me laugh; I expected exactly that response (biased against) from someone else in this thread.

Thanks for the welcome back; things get busy for me this time of year.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:14 am

DentyCracker wrote:I understand where ZELLGADISS is coming from is coming from. The problem is that scoring tables are subjective so that argument is blunted. I thought Rudisha should have won it with Meritt second to be honest. I think it is by necessity a popularty contest. I don't think marketing was at the forefront. 1:40.91 was the performance of the year for me qualitatively. Coconuts for cojones I tell you. Bolt is a vitim of his past success. 9.63 - aight, 19.26, shit even Blake has gone faster. If 9.58 and 19.32 hadn't happened he would have been a shoo-in


Blake better by his 19.26? :lol: Please, 19.32 jogging last 10m with 3 rounds 100(one fast and one super fast)and 2 rounds in 200(one more or less fast) before in few days is A LOT OF BETTER that 19.26 without pression and full of energy with only 1 race in several days :lol:
The people looks that sometimes dont know that they tell :?
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby bushop » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:50 pm

unclezadok wrote:And the only award that matters is the T&F News Athlete of the Year...
The IAAF decision makes me more curious as to who will win Track & Field News' mAOY award.

Your thoughts?
Last edited by bushop on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby DentyCracker » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:11 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:Blake better by his 19.26? :lol: Please, 19.32 jogging last 10m with 3 rounds 100(one fast and one super fast)and 2 rounds in 200(one more or less fast) before in few days is A LOT OF BETTER that 19.26 without pression and full of energy with only 1 race in several days :lol:
The people looks that sometimes dont know that they tell :?


I know English is not your first language so I am not surprised you missed the sarcasm in my post. I am not saying that 9.63 and 19.32 are poor performances. What I am saying is that because of 9.58 and 19.19 (I mistakenly put 19.32) the general public and most track fans won't give it the respect it deserves. I was also warning against an over reliance on the tables to rank performances as these tables are subjective and somewhat arbitrary. I hope that clears up things.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:41 am

Sorry DentyCracker, exactly, the english is not my first language and i did not see your sarcasm.

Yes, it is true.
For some fans looks that is not important those wonderful times because Bolt got better times in the past.
In my opinion IAAF tables are not subjective, for me are objective.
Only few more 4 years ago, in 2008 WR in 100 was 9.74 for Powell.
Bolt got 9.58 in 1 year and few months after, it is amazing, a incredible improvement.
His WR was a long distance of most WRS in all events.
Perhaps only Bubka in pole vault and Zelezny are Wrs more or less near(in the IAAF tables is same too), but other WRS in other events have a long margin yet.
In 100 m the margin now is very very few, perhaps with luck, big start and good wind a little less 9.50 but not much more.

So, in my opinion no doubts, his times were better that WR Rudisha or Merrit, and the votes in IAAF were it.

Take care.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 pm

bushop wrote:The IAAF decision makes me more curious as to who will win Track & Field News' mAOY award.

Your thoughts?


If our panel votes Bolt any higher than No. 4 I'll be most disappointed in them (not that they'd give a shit!).
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Dave » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:27 pm

I am guessing Merritt will edge out Rudisha followed by Eaton in the T&FN mAOY award. But any of those guys could be in any of the three positions. They all had a wonderful year.

Bolt and Farah will duke it out for 4th and 5th.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby unclezadok » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:32 pm

1. Merritt
2. Rudisha
3. Eaton
4. Bolt

or 1. Rudisha
2. Merritt
3. Eaton
4. Bolt

And the only award that matters is the T&F News Athlete of the Year...
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Dave » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:56 am

Did Bolt have a better year than Mo Farah?
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Flumpy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 am

Dave wrote:Bolt and Farah will duke it out for 4th and 5th.


They probably will but they definitely shouldn't.

4th - Robert Harting
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Dave » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:02 pm

Flumpy wrote:
Dave wrote:Bolt and Farah will duke it out for 4th and 5th.


They probably will but they definitely shouldn't.

4th - Robert Harting


I'll take your word for that.

Though which had the superior year: Bolt or Farah?
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:33 pm

Flumpy wrote:
Dave wrote:Bolt and Farah will duke it out for 4th and 5th.


They probably will but they definitely shouldn't.

4th - Robert Harting


I can go with that but i don't want to be too anti Usain either, he was amazing this year but is a victim of his own success, i'll have to give this on a bit of thought

Mo is also behind Lavillenie and maybe Ukhov
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:09 pm

mump, you ran one marathon - I might have thought that you might recognize how hard it is to race distances, especially the 5000/10,000 double (how many times did the Emperor/GOAT do that?). You have to have great endurance and great speed at the end of it; then you have to do it a second time after 19,600meters.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:20 pm

26mi235 wrote:mump, you ran one marathon - I might have thought that you might recognize how hard it is to race distances, especially the 5000/10,000 double (how many times did the Emperor/GOAT do that?). You have to have great endurance and great speed at the end of it; then you have to do it a second time after 19,600meters.


Of course it's hard it's supposed to be but for me this is an award of the whole year not 1 week in August. 2 gold medals don't make up for a lamentable (if unbeaten) rest of the season. I know times are not as important as performance but being ranked 11th in 5k and 38th :shock: in 10k as well as having a rather lacklustre distance field at the moment means that Mo's achievements look rather less at closer inspection.

I feel the same way about Mo as i do about Allyson not enough meat outside of London

Imagine if Renauld or Ivan had the chance to compete in 2 different types of PV or HJ do they suddenly get double the kudos compared to people who don't even have the possibility to compete in 2 very similar events ? For me a double ads lustre to a season but does not a season make

Thankyou for remembering my marathon achievements, Geb has nothing to worry about i was more like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUEtBQNqU2E

:? :?
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:55 pm

The Olympics are about winning. The 10,000 is about competing and in case you did not notice there were not a heck of a lot of fast races this year, and he showed last year that he could win a fast race was well as kick hard. What he had to show this year was that he could complete the double that he did not quite pull off last year. He did absolutely everything that was on the agenda. Sprinters get to run a gazillion races, not those doing 5/10 doubles. When, by the way did you become a marks snob for distance races?

[That is too much; I understand your position, but I think you make far too much of minor non-faults. Too bad none of those others went undefeated in their double attempts.]
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:58 pm

26mi235 wrote:The Olympics are about winning. The 10,000 is about competing and in case you did not notice there were not a heck of a lot of fast races this year, and he showed last year that he could win a fast race was well as kick hard. What he had to show this year was that he could complete the double that he did not quite pull off last year. He did absolutely everything that was on the agenda. Sprinters get to run a gazillion races, not those doing 5/10 doubles. When, by the way did you become a marks snob for distance races?

[That is too much; I understand your position, but I think you make far too much of minor non-faults. Too bad none of those others went undefeated in their double attempts.]


I want a full competitive season, running fast against the best, not set up, poor quality, slow, non events which constituted his season outside of OG
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:12 pm

mump boy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:The Olympics are about winning. The 10,000 is about competing and in case you did not notice there were not a heck of a lot of fast races this year, and he showed last year that he could win a fast race was well as kick hard. What he had to show this year was that he could complete the double that he did not quite pull off last year. He did absolutely everything that was on the agenda. Sprinters get to run a gazillion races, not those doing 5/10 doubles. When, by the way did you become a marks snob for distance races?

[That is too much; I understand your position, but I think you make far too much of minor non-faults. Too bad none of those others went undefeated in their double attempts.]


I want a full competitive season, running fast against the best, not set up, poor quality, slow, non events which constituted his season outside of OG


Well, Farah ran 200x100m, Bolt ran 3x100 + 2x2x100m. Did anyone else in the five or ten have remotely the season that he did?

You probably also wanted Eaton to win half a dozen decathlons, and almost the best Olympic Deca and the best-ever Deca is just chopped liver to you too.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:35 am

26mi235 wrote:
mump boy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:The Olympics are about winning. The 10,000 is about competing and in case you did not notice there were not a heck of a lot of fast races this year, and he showed last year that he could win a fast race was well as kick hard. What he had to show this year was that he could complete the double that he did not quite pull off last year. He did absolutely everything that was on the agenda. Sprinters get to run a gazillion races, not those doing 5/10 doubles. When, by the way did you become a marks snob for distance races?

[That is too much; I understand your position, but I think you make far too much of minor non-faults. Too bad none of those others went undefeated in their double attempts.]


I want a full competitive season, running fast against the best, not set up, poor quality, slow, non events which constituted his season outside of OG


Well, Farah ran 200x100m, Bolt ran 3x100 + 2x2x100m. Did anyone else in the five or ten have remotely the season that he did?

You probably also wanted Eaton to win half a dozen decathlons, and almost the best Olympic Deca and the best-ever Deca is just chopped liver to you too.


I would have liked to have seen Eaton complete another Deca but the ones he did contest where of the VERY highest quality as were some of his individual competitions his season bears no relation to Farah's 2 mile dawdle in B'ham, contrived non events against Collis Birmingham in London, the heats of the UK champs, or his Euro champs walkover

This is not a criticism of Mo, he did exactly what he set out to do this year and winning 2 Gold medals was the obvious priority and in the annuls he will go down in history BUT there are a number of people with superior OVERALL seasons
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:41 am

Also the distance he ran is irrelevant, it's what he trains to do. I would suggest that running the 100m, 200, and 4x1 at 100% effort would take more out of him that 30k where only 800m was at full speed.

If we're going to use distance travelled to decide on AOY then presumably your vote goes to Sergey Kirdyapkin as he completed 50k without a break and massage or cryogenics chamber
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:03 am

The distance is not irrelevant because you race very few 5000s and, especially, 10,000s. You would not think it strange for someone to run only one or two (we now think it strange for someone even to do three).

Geb did not double in Atlanta because racing the 10,000 had done in his legs -- and this guy was the 5000m record holder.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby gh » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:10 am

I still haven't voted, but I'm leaning towards Eaton for the simplest of reasons: during the 2012 season (which is at issue here) he was unbeatable. The other two WR setters were not. Nor was Bolt.

You can argue that he only competed twice, but his level of superiority over the rest of the planet (which was merely led by the reigning 2-time world champ) was such that you can posit how ever many more decathlons you want for him, and he simply would not be beaten. His comfort margin was absolutely stupendous.

So that's my story, at least for today.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby Flumpy » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:00 pm

26mi235 wrote:The distance is not irrelevant because you race very few 5000s and, especially, 10,000s. You would not think it strange for someone to run only one or two (we now think it strange for someone even to do three).


You're missing mump's point. The complaint isn't that Mo didn't run enough, it's the competition he raced against outside of the Olympics was pitiful.

If you are going to run very few races they need to be of top quality to avoid being marked down against people who competed against all of their top competitors throughout the season.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:43 pm

gh wrote:I still haven't voted, but I'm leaning towards Eaton for the simplest of reasons: during the 2012 season (which is at issue here) he was unbeatable. The other two WR setters were not. Nor was Bolt.

You can argue that he only competed twice, but his level of superiority over the rest of the planet (which was merely led by the reigning 2-time world champ) was such that you can posit how ever many more decathlons you want for him, and he simply would not be beaten. His comfort margin was absolutely stupendous.

So that's my story, at least for today.


If David had chosen to only run 800m twice this year wouldn't he have TOTALLY dominated the field and had an 'absolutely stupendous" comfort margin ?

Also you get extra credit from me for putting yourself on the line week after week against the best. If you lose a couple of times while competing a lot, it is preferable to keeping a clean sheet by competing sparingly.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby gh » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:51 pm

mump boy wrote:....
If David had chosen to only run 800m twice this year wouldn't he have TOTALLY dominated the field and had an 'absolutely stupendous" comfort margin ?...


Not if one of the two races was Zürich! :evil:
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby mump boy » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:05 pm

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:....
If David had chosen to only run 800m twice this year wouldn't he have TOTALLY dominated the field and had an 'absolutely stupendous" comfort margin ?...


Not if one of the two races was Zürich! :evil:


maybe he should have just done his national champs and the OG then :P
Last edited by mump boy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby gh » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:21 pm

but put more seriously: we discovered that within about a dozen races, all the other major contenders turned out to be beatable. I posit that no matter how many decathlons you had Eaton contest this year, he could not be beaten, plain and simple. His margin for error is that huge at this point.
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Re: Rudisha loses...Eaton AOY?? [or Merritt?!]

Postby ATK » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:22 pm

mump boy wrote:Also you get extra credit from me for putting yourself on the line week after week against the best. If you lose a couple of times while competing a lot, it is preferable to keeping a clean sheet by competing sparingly.

So because Eaton doesn't have that luxury he basically losses out?
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